Discriminating Against Muslims in Hiring

[Nebor]

You should definitely quit. Then he can replace you with a good employee that minds his fucking business and does what he's told.

Oh, and good luck telling your next potential employer that you quit your last job because you saw prejudices in the workplace. As an upper level manager that regularly interviewed for new mid level managers, that would scream "law suit" to me. Essentially your resume would end up in the same pile as the ones with the muslim sounding names. Ironic, eh?

 

[Born2bwire]

As bad as that sounds, it makes sense. I think I'll just start looking for another job and if an employer asks during an interview why I left so early I'll just say the company was not in line with my morals and leave it at that, or is that a bad idea?

Hmmm... I wouldn't say that. The main point here is that you have a small company and you need to get the best talent that you can. Your boss may be seriously hurting the future of the company by letting his prejudice get in the way of doing what is best. So I would be looking for another job on that basis alone. You're going to end up coming across racists, bigots, and prejudiced people eventually. Most of the time their views may never come up. If it does in a situation where you are not in a position to adequately address it I would just try to shrug it off and not encourage it. But since you feel that it is affecting the working environment and the efficacy of the company I would start thinking about your future plans.

I don't think I would even give the fact that you feel he is not properly directing the company as a reason for leaving.

 

[WildHorse]

..

 

[Ballatician]

Is he from India or was he born here? Curious minds want to know.

 

[HAL9000]

you're being over-sensitive

the owner has one imperative: GROW THE BUSINESS>>>>SURVIVE!!!

That right there is more than MOST people can accomplish, never mind your fantasies about racial/religious bias

Maybe, just maybe (odds against you) you can help your boss make a success out of the small business and grow it, and someday cash out when you sell it to some other company.

If I was your boss, and I knew your agenda was not to help this enterprise survive, but was instead to get work for muslim buddies, I'd fire your ass before your next blink. Then I'd have to spend the next 2 hours covering my ass by documenting the termination to defend against your future lawsuit.

We need less of the OP attitude, MORE of the jungle survival attitude. Business is WAR

That is T R U E

I think he wants the business to succeed but not in a morally reprehensible way. It's all well and good helping a business to succeed but if you have to sell your soul to do it, your just Gordon Gekko...

 

[NetWareHead]

You should definitely quit. Then he can replace you with a good employee that minds his fucking business and does what he's told.

Oh, and good luck telling your next potential employer that you quit your last job because you saw prejudices in the workplace. As an upper level manager that regularly interviewed for new mid level managers, that would scream "law suit" to me. Essentially your resume would end up in the same pile as the ones with the muslim sounding names. Ironic, eh?

This x 1000

Mind your own business OP and do what you were hired for and forget about trying to create some kind of utopia with your employer's business as the start. If he doesn't work well with those kinds of people, then why should he have to hire them? There is hundreds to thousands of years of Muslim-Hindu animosity in India/Pakistan and that kind of stuff won't be forgotten overnight. Especially with the recent Mumbai teroristic bombings, this does nothing but strengthen the Indian's anti-beloved patriot attitudes. Are you even sure it is all Muslims or just the beloved patriot ones he is discriminating against? This kind of stuff happens more than you think. I know Albanians who wont associate with Serbs, Greeks who won't associate with Turks, Chinese who won't associate with Japanese etc.... There are many historical reasons for this hate and it is most likely not just simple minded racism. So in short, just butt out of the guy's personal/business life and remember who signs your paycheck.

 

[HAL9000]

This x 1000

Mind your own business OP and do what you were hired for and forget about trying to create some kind of utopia with your employer's business as the start. If he doesn't work well with those kinds of people, then why should he have to hire them? There is hundreds to thousands of years of Muslim-Hindu animosity in India/Pakistan and that kind of stuff won't be forgotten overnight. Especially with the recent Mumbai teroristic bombings, this does nothing but strengthen the Indian's anti-beloved patriot attitudes. Are you even sure it is all Muslims or just the beloved patriot ones he is discriminating against? This kind of stuff happens more than you think. I know Albanians who wont associate with Serbs, Greeks who won't associate with Turks, Chinese who won't associate with Japanese etc.... There are many historical reasons for this hate and it is most likely not just simple minded racism. So in short, just butt out of the guy's personal/business life and remember who signs your paycheck.

The problem is he can't "but out" of the guys business life, he is integrated into it, and he shouldn't have to put up with illegal pracices that make him uncomfortable regardless of whether you think the reasons behind it are justifiable, racism isn't justifiable ever.

 

[NetWareHead]

The problem is he can't "but out" of the guys business life, he is integrated into it, and he shouldn't have to put up with illegal pracices that make him uncomfortable regardless of whether you think the reasons behind it are justifiable, racism isn't justifiable ever.

You have a case here where two countries are practically sworn enemies, how will that be a good workplace? The reasons are justifiable because the employer most likely cannot work with those kind of people. The viability and continuity of the business are more important than hiring a Muslim in this case.

Besides, the OP has not yet directly asked the boss why these people have not been hired. Bottom line, if it really is racism, this is not your fight or the OP's fight to carry on. Sure the OP is free to leave and find another job if he feels so uncomfortable. Echoing a previous poster in this thread who said it pretty eloquently: "Get over it!"

 

[HAL9000]

You have a case here where two countries are practically sworn enemies, how will that be a good workplace? The reasons are justifiable because the employer most likely cannot work with those kind of people. The viability and continuity of the business are more important than hiring a Muslim in this case.

Besides, the OP has not yet directly asked the boss why these people have not been hired. Bottom line, if it really is racism, this is not your fight or the OP's fight to carry on. Sure the OP is free to leave and find another job if he feels so uncomfortable. Echoing a previous poster in this thread who said it pretty eloquently: "Get over it!"

The thing is, just because a country is "sworn enemies" with another country, like some would argue, my country England and France, dosen't mean that an individuals racism is justifiable, there is no logical reason that a person can look ath their nations history and then say well in that case the entire country is a right off. It's like if Jewish people were to stop hiring germans, because of the second world war, there is no valid logic behind descriminating agains joe bloggs because his great grandfather may have been a member of the nazi party.

I don't think he should "get over it" I think it's morally reprehensible and the OP dosen't have to and should accept it.

 

[NetWareHead]

The thing is, just because a country is "sworn enemies" with another country, like some would argue, my country England and France, dosen't mean that an individuals racism is justifiable, there is no logical reason that a person can look ath their nations history and then say well in that case the entire country is a right off. It's like if Jewish people were to stop hiring germans, because of the second world war, there is no valid logic behind descriminating agains joe bloggs because his great grandfather may have been a member of the nazi party.

I don't think he should "get over it" I think it's morally reprehensible and the OP dosen't have to and should accept it.

Lol really? England and France?? Funny you mention those two as your example of two countries who are sworn enemies. Maybe if this was the time of the 100 years war, or even during Napoleon's time, but there is no more animosity between England and France. There have been at least 2 centuries of friendship. Bad example. Even Germany and France have cast off their animosity after WW2 ended.

Two countries who are sworn enemies, by my definition, are enemies because the population has also experienced injustices and evils at the hands of the other country. The population itself is galvanized by firsthand experiences of injustices, not primarily by propaganda. England and France, not sworn enemies. Iran and Israel, not sworn enemies despite what Ahmedinjahd preaches.

Now for countries who are sworn enemies: Go ask an Indian what he thinks of the Mumbai bombings and Pakistani govt involvement. As well as the numerous wars in Kashmir region. Go find a Croat, Bosnian, Kosovar or Albanian and ask them what they think of Serbs. Go ask Vietnamese people what they think of Americans and French. And so on and so forth. Even though I mentioned it before, I wont use the China-Japan example nor will I use Jews-Germany because my point is to easily find people who have firsthand experienced evils at hands of another country.

It is easy to sit in comfortable England without a clue of what it is like to be ethnically cleansed, driven from your land, persecuted because of religion, watched your women raped etc... and make statements like " racism is wrong" and then formulate what you feel are accurate assessments of other people's opinions. Get to know some of the people in my example and see if I am wrong.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think he wants the business to succeed but not in a morally reprehensible way. It's all well and good helping a business to succeed but if you have to sell your soul to do it, your just Gordon Gekko...

You know, it is his business after all and I do agree with other posters that while what he is doing may cost him some very good employees, I support his right to run his business as he sees fit.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Fuck that. I need to feed my family, unless he's lopping off heads of muslim applicants I couldn't possibly care less. It's easy to sit here behind a keyboard of anonymity and proclaim how moral and righteous you are but real life is frequently different.

That said, I'm glad I don't work for this idiot.

This. x 1000. Idealism and lofty principles don't put food on the table at the end of the day. Suck it up, do your job, and in the meantime, apply elsewhere and try to land at a different company.

To summarize, do NOT mention any of the following in your interview:

1. My old boss was prejudiced.
2. The company violated my principles/morals.

If asked why you're looking, ALWAYS put a positive spin on the situation. The best thing to say in the case of the OP is that "Well, I'm currently working for a small company and I'd like to move to a firm that has more advancement opportunities and where I can better grow and utilize my skills." Period.

Come on people, this is all common sense. Seriously, place yourself in the shoes of an interviewer. If you ask a candidate "Why are you leaving?" or "Tell me about your former company" and the candidate goes off on a diatribe about how the company is "immoral" or "prejudiced," what do you think the interviewer is going to think? I'll tell you:

1. This candidate has a bad, negative attitude.
2. This candidate is probably a complainer.
3. This candidate is probably a bad employee and is looking for excuses to justify his bad performance.
4. If 1-3 are true, guess what he is going to do if I hire him? The same thing!

Here is another clue as well -- the interviewer doesn't really care to know about your thoughts on your old company and asks you why you are leaving to specifically see if the reason you give is valid or paints you as a problem employee. That is why the question is asked in the first place. I've interviewed tons of people and I can tell you exactly why these questions are asked.

 

[HAL9000]

Lol really? England and France?? Funny you mention those two as your example of two countries who are sworn enemies. Maybe if this was the time of the 100 years war, or even during Napoleon's time, but there is no more animosity between England and France. There have been at least 2 centuries of friendship. Bad example. Even Germany and France have cast off their animosity after WW2 ended.

Two countries who are sworn enemies, by my definition, are enemies because the population has also experienced injustices and evils at the hands of the other country. The population itself is galvanized by firsthand experiences of injustices, not primarily by propaganda. England and France, not sworn enemies. Iran and Israel, not sworn enemies despite what Ahmedinjahd preaches.

Now for countries who are sworn enemies: Go ask an Indian what he thinks of the Mumbai bombings and Pakistani govt involvement. As well as the numerous wars in Kashmir region. Go find a Croat, Bosnian, Kosovar or Albanian and ask them what they think of Serbs. Go ask Vietnamese people what they think of Americans and French. And so on and so forth. Even though I mentioned it before, I wont use the China-Japan example nor will I use Jews-Germany because my point is to easily find people who have firsthand experienced evils at hands of another country.

It is easy to sit in comfortable England without a clue of what it is like to be ethnically cleansed, driven from your land, persecuted because of religion, watched your women raped etc... and make statements like " racism is wrong" and then formulate what you feel are accurate assessments of other people's opinions. Get to know some of the people in my example and see if I am wrong.

I stil don't believe that you can write off an entire race of people based on the actions of some, If every muslim you have ever met has attempted to ethnically cleanse you then I suppose it's understandable to assume that will be the case with muslims you meet in the future. But other than that it is illogical, and unreasonable, I'm sticking with racial profiling is wrong. Particularly if you are looking at how people act in India with issues like this, taking them to another country, like in this case, and then assuming that muslims living in america will act the same way is... illogical...

there is no more animosity between England and France

That's not the case.

 

[CZroe]

Strangely, all the people of Indian decent who I have known personally have displayed hints of racism in general, not just to Muslims. For example, there was one in my Technical Writing class who admitted to everyone in class that if her child were dating someone non-Indian, she would freak out.

Based on this, I'm going to form a racist stereotype of Indians all being racist.

 

[HAL9000]

Strangely, all the people of Indian decent who I have known personally have displayed hints of racism in general, not just to Muslims. For example, there was one in my Technical Writing class who admitted to everyone in class that if her child were dating someone non-Indian, she would freak out.

Based on this, I'm going to form a racist stereotype of Indians all being racist.

Interesting, perhaps in indian culture racism is more socially acceptable... hmm...

 

[SandEagle]

took the OP months to find a startup job? lol. how much that foo payin u? if money is good, stfu

 

[HAL9000]

took the OP months to find a startup job? lol. how much that foo payin u? if money is good, stfu

Yeah I think that's a good point, It's all about what monetary value you assign to your principles, if the wage is > that value then stfu.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah I think that's a good point, It's all about what monetary value you assign to your principles, if the wage is > that value then stfu.

It is about being able to support yourself and your family in hard economic times. By all means, if it is that troublesome, he should leave -- but only after finding new employment. That's what we're saying, and we're also saying not to say anything stupid on interviews that will cost you a job opportunity.

 

[HAL9000]

It is about being able to support yourself and your family in hard economic times. By all means, if it is that troublesome, he should leave -- but only after finding new employment.

True, that would definately increase the value point at which he'll sacrafice his principles.

Lets say PrincipleVal = $35,000 PA, and his wage is $45,000 then he should stay if however his PrincipleVal = $1,400,000 then he should quit, simple enough just do the maths.

My PrincipleVal = $80,000 so if I get paid more I'll compromise in the mean time, I'd quite

 

[Jumpem]

His business, his preferences.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Islam is not a race it's a religion. Still not legal to discriminate because of either according to constitution and law.

Actually, from a federal standpoint, with 8 employees Title VII does not apply. I'm not sure what state he's in, so it could still be illegal, but not from a federal law standpoint.

 

[HAL9000]

Actually, from a federal standpoint, with 8 employees Title VII does not apply. I'm not sure what state he's in, so it could still be illegal, but not from a federal law standpoint.

The whole federal/ state law always amuses me about america. It makes places like Nevada, arizona, texas like separate countries.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I would just ask him. What's wrong with that one, or if he asks for your recommendation the recommend one and see what he says, if your working somewhere that makes you feel uncomfortable (to me) no ammount of money should make you compromise your own morality. I know it's not a practical answer but I'm quite principled and I say stick by your principles.

Don`t ask your boss whats wrong.....
Mention to your boss there are quite a few muslims who could be an asset to his company!
Then through small talk try to find out if perhaps he might have lost somebody dear to him in the middle east....etc....

 

[HAL9000]

Don`t ask your boss whats wrong.....
Mention to your boss there are quite a few muslims who could be an asset to his company!
Then through small talk try to find out if perhaps he might have lost somebody dear to him in the middle east....etc....

Yep that's a fair approach as well, basically I would add just do what you can to find out the truth without pressuring.