Discussion on Middle Class

[Patranus]

Most people can't afford TV service much less have multiple TVs anymore.

Sure about that?

The average American home now has more television sets than people.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2006-09-21-homes-tv_x.htm

LOL - OOOPS.

 

[Acanthus]

My anecdotal evidence trumps your many times peer reviewed statistical analysis.

lol

 

[Acanthus]

Can someone explain to me how raising taxes on the rich will bring the middle class back, thanks.

Raising taxes on the rich would allow us to keep a lower tax burden on the rest of the population. Furthermore, we could actually fund government programs other than the military in a non-half-assed way that would actually keep the programs afloat long-term.

More effective government programs, especially programs with good oversight, will lead to a more prosperous populace. This would be via government jobs, infrastructure spending, and innovation incentives.

A truly stronger middle class would also need protectionism laws against 3rd world labor being exploited.

 

[Monster_Munch]

Maybe I hang around a different crowd as most everyone I know has averaged 2.5% to 3.5% salary increases over the last 20 years.

The minimum wage has almost doubled in the same time frame.

Inflation is usually about 2.5% to 3.5%

 

[Londo_Jowo]

lol

You guys are really funny, without a doubt I have a far better life than I did 20 years ago when I got out of the Navy and can afford to provide my family with a better life than my parents were able to provide brothers/sister and myself.

Maybe this is due to the fact I went to where the work was rather than allow myself to accept a meaningless factory or food service/retail job.

 

[sao123]

The purchasing power of the average American has gone through the roof in the past 30 years.

Just look around your house at all the stuff you own and compare it to what you had growing up.

The life style we live today is 100% better than what we were living with 30 years ago. Even the poor have multiple tvs and air conditioning etc etc.

Its not our purchasing power thats gone through the roof... its the amount of debt the average family has.

 

[simpletron]

The middle class is screwed.

The rich dangle the promise of rewarding hard work in front of the middle class, like a carrot on a stick; Reganomics and Trickle Down Economics. Salaries have not increased for the past 30 years; http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...s-show-growing-rich-poor-gap#mwpphu-post-form

which of those graph show that salaries has no increase? ...none of them

http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/taxdistribution.cfm
The link of above has the data for the two cbo graphs.
The link also has the following data:
Lowest Quintile - 6% -11%
Second Quintile - 12% - 18%
Middle Quintile - 15% -21%
Fourth Quintile - 26% -32%
Highest Quintile - 82% - 86%
The first number is the increase in pretax income after inflation between 1979 and 2006.
The second number is the increase in after tax income after inflation between 1979 and 2006.

 

[Matt1970]

You guys seem to forget the 72% tax rate on the wealthy in the late 70's and the "Pain Index" it created.

Want to stop sending jobs overseas? Stop shopping at Walmart and buying every damn "Made In China" product you can get your hands on. A company isn't going to pay you to build stuff here that they can't sell.

 

[piasabird]

If you average in an annual %4.00 rate of inflation, a 3% raise does not get one to even, you are actually losing some of your income. So if you are paying more for Insurance and medical costs, then you are losing even more money. You have to adjust money for inflation rates in any kind of an economical model.

Sorry to burst your bubble!

I took one class in system development and they gave us equations for future value of money, and told us if any project did not have a gain of at least 4% it was not worth doing.

 

[Matt1970]

Inflation hasn't been 4% since 1991. The past 10 years average is below 3%

 

[soulcougher73]

Maybe I hang around a different crowd as most everyone I know has averaged 2.5% to 3.5% salary increases over the last 20 years.

The minimum wage has almost doubled in the same time frame.

So what you are saying it they kept up with inflation basically? Not much of an actual raise then. Oh look at me i got a bigger number attached to my salary..damn...everything i buy went up by the same percentage...hmm.

 

[fisheerman]

You're on some serious drugs.

Most people can't afford TV service much less have multiple TVs anymore.
Also can't afford the electric bill to run air conditioning.

Only the wealthy can afford such things which obviously you are wealthy, you should stop posting what you know nothing about and have no experience with.

You have obviously never visited the "ghettos" around my area.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I guess all the liberals on this forum have been majorly fucked in the last 20-30 years.

My raises have kept up with/exceeded the inflation rates in that time frame. I've received several 10% - 15% raises in the last 8 years.

 

[wuliheron]

I guess all the liberals on this forum have been majorly fucked in the last 20-30 years.

My raises have kept up with/exceeded the inflation rates in that time frame. I've received several 10% - 15% raises in the last 8 years.

If you account for things like the dramatic increase in illegal aliens and debt then you might actually realize just how little progress you've made.

 

[werepossum]

The purchasing power of the average American has gone through the roof in the past 30 years.

Just look around your house at all the stuff you own and compare it to what you had growing up.

The life style we live today is 100% better than what we were living with 30 years ago. Even the poor have multiple tvs and air conditioning etc etc.

This is true, though it is increasingly financed with debt. Younger people often don't understand how much material wealth has increased. In part I think this is because there is so much more to buy today, and it lasts less long. When I was a kid we had very little, but you didn't miss it because the things other, richer kids had weren't that different. Tennis shoes from KMart were not materially different from those from specialty stores, baseball mitts without a famous player's endorsements weren't materially different, even color televisions weren't that big a deal because kids never got to choose the channel anyway.

Where we're really screwed today is not in average salaries, but rather in our loss of wealth-producing jobs and its ugly step sister, debt. Government has taken money and spent it, assuming that future revenue would always be greater. To a great extent, large mega corporations did the same with pensions and promises (lifetime health insurance.) We're still on an ever-upward spiral of increasing material wealth, but we no longer have the means to buy it except through debt.

Even worse, those of us who are not buying things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like are increasingly being forced to pay for those people who are. Hell, if I HAVE to pay for a McMansion then I want it to be MY McMansion!

 

[lord_emperor]

The purchasing power of the average American has gone through the roof in the past 30 years.

Just look around your house at all the stuff you own and compare it to what you had growing up.

The life style we live today is 100% better than what we were living with 30 years ago. Even the poor have multiple tvs and air conditioning etc etc.

Uh...

At my age my grandparents owned 3 acres of land and a house on it (and owed no money) and 8 square miles of farmland which provided them some extra income; each owned a new car that lasted them the rest of their lives.

At my age my father and mother owned a home but were paying a mortgage, each owned a used car that broke down every 2-3 years and had to be replaced.

I rent and with houses increasing in cost 10-20% per year, I will literally never earn enough money to own a home (seriously, napkin math on a mortgage with 0% interest would cost more than I earn each month). I drive a used car which I got an exceptional deal on and expect it to last 5-10 years.

Yes I have a TV and an air conditioner and two computers, but giving those things up would not get me a house or even a new(ish) car.

 

[Acanthus]

Inflation hasn't been 4% since 1991. The past 10 years average is below 3%

Apparently you haven't been outside this year.

 

[Acanthus]

You guys are really funny, without a doubt I have a far better life than I did 20 years ago when I got out of the Navy and can afford to provide my family with a better life than my parents were able to provide brothers/sister and myself.

Maybe this is due to the fact I went to where the work was rather than allow myself to accept a meaningless factory or food service/retail job.

You are failing to even grasp the discussion.

Of course your income rose later in your career, compare it to someone at the same point in their career 30 years ago, and adjust for inflation.

On average, you are doing the same.

The sick part is inflation numbers are almost always core inflation, which doesn't take into account the 3 largest cost increases on the american public over the last 30 years... Food, Healthcare, Housing.