Displeased with Dell 2007FWP - Need Advice

[Venomous21]

I purchased the Dell 2007FWP revision A02 on sale for roughly $400 with tax and shipping. I need advice on picking a new widescreen LCD that fits my needs.

First, here are my problems with the Dell in order:
1) Banding
2) Brightness
3) Refresh Rate

Specs of Dell:
DVI-D, 1680x1050 @ 60hz, 16ms (black to black) and 8ms (grey to grey), 300 cdm2, 800:1 contrast ratio, and 20.1'' size.

Things I like and will possibly miss about the dell:
1) hdcp 2) picture in picture 3) ergonomics (it's gorgeous)

Concerning banding, I'm tired of it. This monitor (even the a02 model) bands, just a lot less than the A00 model, but it still bands. To me, this is unacceptable and the primary reason I am getting a refund on this monitor.

Concerning brightness, I have done everything to try to get this monitor to be easy and pleasing on my eyes. The brightness is too jacked up. By decreasing the brightness, my black levels turn to junk quickly and lose all detail. If I try to adjust contrast in the nvidia control panel, I am adding banding. Adjusting gamma hasn't seemed to help very much. Like many LCD tvs (which I have experience with), by having such a bright display (300cdm2 in this case), you can produce acceptable black levels, a more jazzy showroom display, and most important, often it allows you to artificially jack up your contrast ratio. Also, reading text is very hard on the eyes for longterm as this monitor is very, very bright. Most CRTs by comparison are 100cdm2. Cleartype hasn't helped.

I am looking for:

I am looking for a widescreen monitor with a DVI-D input, proper color scales, 8bit panel, no banding period, fash refresh rate for games (preferably higher than 60hz), possibly hdcp (but if that really limits things then it isn't necessary). I am looking for a LCD that is pleasing on the eyes and not a full lit sun sitting on your desk, basically a LCD with nice black levels that doesn't need to artificially inflate them by jacking up the backlight. I am looking for a good LCD with many properties of a fully functional CRT. proper color reproduction, no banding, fash refresh rate. This LCD will be primarily for reading text (for graduate school) and Gaming. Picture in picture is nice feature of the Dell that I wish I could get again but it isn't a deal breaker. However, I hope I can get hdcp again. Quality is king. Something this Dell lacks overall or it would never have gotten past quality control.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

popular monitor around the video forums for about 400 or less is the viewsonic vx2025wm (cons: white backlight from black corners, only noticable when watching dvd's or movies that don't fill the screen) or samsung 215t (no experience with), for 600, the NEC 20wx..

 

[imported_michealo]

stop saying "refresh rate" please.

have you turned down the brightness via the service menu?

 

[Venomous21]

have you turned down the brightness via the service menu?

From the basic service menu, I have tried turning brightness down. If you mean the advanced services menu, I am not sure how I'd do it there.

 

[Venomous21]

nt

 

[Venomous21]

Thank you for the reply.

Currently, it seems 3 monitors keep getting recommended to me again and again:

NEC 20WMGX2
Viewsonic VX2025WM
Samsung 215TW

Hopefully, one of these three monitors will satisfy me. If anyone has any further recommendations, please let me know. My next step is to try to find these displays locally so I can see them before I possibly buy one. I also plan to do some further technical research on all three.

Issues I've had with the Dell 2007FPW that I hope to resolve by purchasing a new monitor:

Brightness - I want to see black text on a white backdrop that is pleasing and does not strain my eyes after a short period of use. I do not like the fact that I have to lower the brightness on this dell manually everytime I want to read text for any extended period of time. Also, lowering brightness kills the black levels of this display, imo.

Banding and Color Reproduction I don't want banding and I want good color reproduction.

Image Quality Pictures on this dell just don't look that good. Images are anything but crisp and dare I say they sometimes look grainy and something I've never seen before: artifacty! (I made a new word).

Gaming and Refresh Rate I am perfectly fine while gaming with this Dell. Responsiveness isn't as good as my CRT obviously but it's very close. I want a display with AT LEAST as good responsiveness as this Dell. Anything less will be too slow, especially in FPS.

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Hopefully, my above post is a bit more concise than my first post. Upon doing further research I will post questions and my results of my purchase decision here.

Thank you for your help.

 

[xtknight]

What panel is in your Dell now? (Just give me the model that appears in the service menu.) That will help us suggest you a better monitor.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I suggest the viewsonic vx2025wm. I have it. Color is amazing, NO banding at all. 8-bit panel.
It is a bright display but I set the brightness on it down to 65 with the contrast set to 70 and it is just about perfect. Blacks are definitely black. I use my computer alot and I don't get eyestrain unless I've been staring at it for hours and hours - but that happens with any display.
It has an 8ms response time and the motion blur effect is very slight, definitely better than the Dell LCD I replaced with this viewsonic.
It is really crisp, but some people have reported a slight "screen door" effect, but I have yet to see it on mine.
There is some slight backlight leak, in an X pattern but the only time it is noticeable is on a completely black screen and it isn't bad at all. Seriously, who is gonna stare at a black screen all the time anyway???

Hope this is helpful

EDIT oh yeah, refresh rate has nothing to do with games and display on an LCD, that was what caused the flicker on a CRT but refresh rates don't matter anymore with LCDs.
CRT 60Hz = whole screen refreshes 60 times per second (flickers).
LCD 60Hz = each pixel refreshes 60 times per second (no flicker).
Response time is what affects the the blurring effect seen with LCDs.

 

[Venomous21]

Originally posted by: xtknight
What panel is in your Dell now? (Just give me the model that appears in the service menu.) That will help us suggest you a better monitor.

From the service menu:

bios: V1B11 panel: LPL WSXGA LM201W01

Thanks =p

It is really crisp, but some people have reported a slight "screen door" effect, but I have yet to see it on mine.

Refresh my mind on this if you don't mind concerning the "Screen door" effect. I am a hardcore gamer, however, I do a lot of college work on here daily which involves lots of reading of black text on white screens. I found the Dell to be way too bright. How is the Viewsonic when it comes to text? Image quality? HDCP? I've heard only good things about it when it comes to gaming.

Thank you!

 

[Venomous21]

Xtknight, I'm heading over to look at a bunch of monitors soon and would love to hear your suggestion when you get a chance.

Thank you for your help! =)

 

[Crescent13]

NEC 20WMGX2!! I have it, and this monitor is unbelieveable. Looks just like a crt, near perfect black levels in a pitch black room, and with some light it looks like perfect black. I have not noticed any ghosting on this monitor, compared to the tons I saw on my 8MS Samsung 730B (yeah I have sensitive eyes). I highly reccomend this if you can afford it.

 

[Venomous21]

Crescent13, how is it for reading black text on a white background? I find my Dell to be way too bright and reading text drives me nuts (honestly, I think a lot of this might have to do with this ****** anti-glare filter, I think it may be creating a strange colored hue that is stressing out my eyes). I'm hoping the glossy screen will be a lot better. My CRT i've been using for years is just a glass screen with no glare filter and I love it.

 

[bigshooter]

Also take into account that the NEC and Samsungs will cost more than the Dell. I bought my Dell 2007WFP for ~$325 a few months ago. I took a gamble that they would fix the banding issue with the firmware update, which to me it appears they did. I had noticable banding on some websites, picutres, movies, and even slightly in games. Once I received my A02 version everything just seemed to look better (after a little adventure into servicemenuland) and I confirmed that the banding was gone in desktop mode per gradlin and just looking at other gradients.

There have reports of banding on the Samsung and Viewsonic monitors, and although the NEC 20WMGX2 has been widely agreed upon to be the best 20" monitor out there, it has that glossy screen which I decided was a deal killer for me. You can also almost buy 2 2007WFP's for the price of the NEC. I think Newegg has it for around $650. Plus it's ugly.

If you really don't like the Dell I woudl go with the Samsung though. It's a PVA panel versus IPS in the Dell, but I've had good luck with Samsung LCD's overall. I still have a 191T flipped sideways sitting next to my 2007 for leaving ebooks open if I need a reference when doing homework.

You may also want to check out the Displays forum at Hardforums. You'll find a lot more discussions about various displays all rolled up into one area there. This place tends to congregate more towards general hardware instead of breaking out into specific groups.

 

[xtknight]

Venomous21: Well, it turns out you already have the lowest brightness type of LCD panel (S-IPS). I was sorta hoping you'd have a P-MVA, that way you'd have something to "step up" to. Let's look at the bright side of things. The NEC 20WMGX2 will still be a lot better. Yes, it can be extremely high brightness (470 cd/m2), but that is only in one mode. I've heard it scales extremely well with brightness into the ~10 percents. If the NEC doesn't work for you either, or if it's too expensive, I'll ask the guys at flatpanels.dk forums to see if they know of a low brightness LCD (100-150 cd/m2). The only problem is, that may be an LCD that's quite old, or quite expensive (a photo editing one for example). But I can ask just to make sure.

 

[RaiderJ]

My 2005FPW is great. No issues with banding or gaming. Maybe there are some cheap on the forums?

 

[Venomous21]

The 2005FPW does not band and to my knowledge implements the 8bit panel correctly. There is a rumor going around that the 2407 series uses a 6bit + 2 bit dither for the 8 bit experience so to speak. Apparently, this was supposedly confirmed by a Dell rep, I have no idea if this is true nor do I really understand dither so someone else would need to step in...however, from what I understand, if they are using dither, that would probably explain the reason why the models all have slight color banding.

I went ahead and ordered the NEC 20WMGX2..... Concerning my problem with the Dell, upon further investigation, I think part of the problem with the brightness might also have to do with the anti-glare filter on my screen. By turning down the brightness on the screen to a lower level, I notice the anti-glare filter sitting over the screen and producing ever so slightly some distortitions that seem to possibly be bothering my eyes. When the brightness is turned way up (obviously too bright for my eyes for longterm use), the anti-glare filter is much less noticeable and doesn't bother me. I know that sounds insane....but my vision is ridiculous, better than 20/20 and I see things that many don't It's both good and bad.

I think the clear glossy screen on the NEC20WMGX2 will be absolutely perfect for me. I went and looked at some other monitors yesterday (the Viewsonic VX2025WM and the Samsung 215TW) and while both appeared to destroy the 2007FPW in image quality and had no banding, I decided I really wanted to get this NEC monitor especially after I looked at some LCDs with glossy panels. Glossy panels seem perfect for me. The color reproduction is vivid, I don't notice the annoying anti-glare filter...As for having to worry about reflections, I've used two different CRTS for the past 10 years with a glass screen that reflect anything and is obviously the worst when a direct light source is behind it. I like it though...so I'm excited about this NEC. I hope it works well for me. If it doesn't, I will return it and pick up the Viewsonic I referenced above. Below is something I posted to another board about my experience with the Viewsonic and Samsung, maybe it'll shed some slight on some things and help some of the rest of you guys on this board.

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Bestbuy didn't have the NEC. I went by Compusa and checked out the Viewsonic and the Samsung for about 15minutes each. I had them hook up each of them via dvi to a mac mini (no pcs were available). I made sure to set the native resolution and refresh rate. Unfortunately, since I was on a mac mini, I could not run all the tests I liked but I was able to run a couple of the important ones and at least see it from a real world perspective.

First, the Samsung:
Video playback (dvd): color was good, motion was blocky and dragged at times
Image quality: excellent, far better than my Dell, I was truly amazed
Gradients: It did far better than my Dell, however, it did slightly band on one of the harder grey gradient tests
Game responsiveness: since it was a Mac, I couldn't run any of the tests I brought, however, given the choppy dvd playback (which wasn't a mac mini issue as you'll see below), I have a feeling responsiveness might be a little lacking

The Viewsonic:
Video playback (dvd): colors were a bit washed out, however, motion was fluid
Image quality: excellent
Gradients: passed all my gradient tests, including the hardest grey test
Game responsiveness: hopefully decent, since on the same computer, dvd playback was fluid whereas it had been choppy before

Clearly, based on the little time and tests I did, the Viewsonic appears to be the better flat panel for my needs. I looked at some LCD screens with the glossy finish (hopefully just as glossy as the NEC) and I thought they looked great...way,way better than the matte finish. I am probably going to go ahead and order the NEC online and hope it's everything I've been lead to believe. If the NEC falls through, I'll definitely fall back on the cheap and good Viewsonic.

I'll post more later. I have to run now.

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One last thing, the two monitors I saw looked way better than this Dell....in image quality, colors, and dvd playback. I was suprised at how much better they looked than this Dell...I am definitely returning the Dell now.

 

[Venomous21]

Correction, according to a Dell rep, the 2407 is a true 8 bit panel.

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums...?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=62161

Thanks again for all your help guys.

 

[atybimf]

ViewSonic FTW . I love mine.

 

[theslickvik]

Originally posted by: atybimf
ViewSonic FTW . I love mine.

Very good suggestion indeed

 

[Venomous21]

Well, if the NEC falls through, I'm definitely picking up the Viewsonic. I'm hoping the NEC is right for me. Right now, I'm just trying to maintain reasonable and positive expectations given the headache this Dell has caused me. I'll have the NEC on Wednesday and will post my impressions.