dispute a mechanic charge?

[edi sucks]

See my old thread here for reference:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2195811&highlight=vibration

About a month ago I went in to firestone for an oil change, no other symptoms, and they told me I needed new hubs/bearings and a control arm. Told me if I didn't replace them my wheels could fall off. Stupid me, about to leave for a business trip and leave our '02 Maxima with the wife fell for it and decided to just pay so I didn't have to worry while I was gone.

All to the tune of $1000.

Since I got it back, I've had a nasty front end vibration mostly from the front right.

-First time I took it back, they said it was a defective part and they were going to replace it. Spent all Saturday and Sunday with them.

-Second time I took it back they rebalanced the wheels and gave it back to my wife. Original tech insisted nothing was wrong with the car.

-Third time was after I got back a week later, they took it and rebalanced the wheels again. Original tech said he didn't feel anything wrong with the car. Also told me I had two bent rims (which I assume weren't that bad, because I had no vibrations before dropping it off).

-Fourth time I took it in the original tech drove it (yet again), and insisted there's nothing wrong with the car. The manager drove it and felt a problem, called me up and said he needed a few hours. Apparently they replaced the axle, said it was a common failure. (???) I wasn't charged for that, nor was I given any sort of receipt. Anyway, I still have a nasty vibration. Bonus: I somehow developed a hole in my exhaust after getting it back.

-I took it to a local shop next to work to have them take a look at it, and well my front right rim is noticeably bent. Did a rotation and now I feel a "hop" in the rear, and my whole right side vibrates. I still feel vibes from the front right and a steering wheel shake.

I can't prove they bent my rim, but I have no other explanation for this. Regardless, I think I'm stuck paying for a new one at my expense.

Since I also still feel the front end vibrate I have little faith that a new rim in the back will fix my problem, and am assuming they incorrectly installed the hub/bearings or installed crappy ones. Regardless they have been unable to fix my car and I don't see why I should get stuck with the $1000 bill, since now I have to possibly pay double that to fix Firestone's mistakes.

Going to file a complaint with corporate, and I know small claims court is an option. Can I dispute a charge like this on my credit card?

 

[nedfunnell]

You could- but you should talk to them first and see if they'll voluntarily refund you. Probably not, from the sounds of it, but at least give them the opportunity so they won't have that to hold against you.

 

[alfa147x]

I would file a dispute. The CC will deal with communicating with them

 

[MagickMan]

I would file a dispute. The CC will deal with communicating with them

This.

 

[SearchMaster]

Going to file a complaint with corporate

Good luck. I won't say anything for fear of being libelous but I hate that organization.

 

[dud]

OP, have you ever considered doing your own oil changes? You fell for one of the most notorious scams conducted by car "service" centers like Firestone. They lure customers in for oil changes and then "find" all sorts of things wrong with their cars. If you do not do your own oil changes then consider doing some research before you do business with them. A quick search brought up the following:


http://firestone-complete-auto-care...-complete-auto-care-scams-20100208170465.html

Seem familiar?


http://firestone-complete-auto-care...restone-autocare-scams-their-customers.-37580


And finally from the Ripoffreport. The first report is most interesting:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-re...and-r/how-firestone-makes-big-money-dej83.htm

"I thought that maybe it would benefit everyone to let them know the ENTIRE program that Firestone and most other tire and auto service centers use to extract that hard earned cash from your pockets!!

First off, they (Firestone) run ads offering an oil change for $4.95 to $12.95, depending on the ad. That price is valid with a completed Autopass credit card application only (A.P.R. 22.9&#37. Then, as they write the order they offer - or more or less tell you that you are getting - a free "courtesy check". What the courtesy check is, is a quick check of all of the fast, high margin items that they can see without taking the wheels off your car. If a store does not perform courtesy checks on at least 95% of the vehicles coming into the shop, the manager gets reprimanded by the district Manager. Anyways, the first thing that they usually come across is either a radiator flush, transmission flush, or a serpentine belt. Keep in mind that most all of the newer vehicles on the road today are using extended life coolant that is good for 10 years/100000 miles, and Transmission fluid changes are also usually not recommended for 60,000 miles or more. Next, the friendly salesperson will explain to you that your car NEEDS to have the SCHEDULED MAiNTENANCE done at the specified intervals to keep the warranty in effect on your new car. Fine. Dandy. Now, they will print you THEIR maintenance schedule. COMPARE that to the one that your dealer will give you.. interesting.. isnt it? Firestone ONLY uses the SEVERE service schedule, instead of the regular one that 90% of all drivers would fall under (there is a normal schedule, and a severe schedule, depending on driving habits).
These scheduled maintenance packages that they sell have INCREDIBLE profits for both the manager and the company. a 60,000 mile package that might sell for $250-275 ONLY COSTS APPROX. $40 plus $20 labor !!! Firestone also buys their parts that they keep in inventory in their stores based on the lowest bid that they can get. THEREFORE THEIR PARTS MAY NOT BE OF THE BEST QUALITY THAT IS AVAILABLE!"

 

[mvbighead]

Me personally, I would only go to firestone for tires. Anything else that I don't plan on doing myself, goes to my trusted mechanic. If it's an alignment, he has that done by a company he works with.

If you actually encounter a problem with the car, or fear that the wife shouldn't drive it, a Kia from Enterprise is generally something like $30-40 a day. That'll get the job done while your car goes to your mechanic.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

My experience with firestone has also been terrible. $29 to plug a tire (was in a hurry and couldn't go to discount or costco), the tpms light was on and they didn't bother even checking air in the other tires yet were very quick to suggest a new air filter and brake flush.

 

[mvbighead]

My experience with firestone has also been terrible. $29 to plug a tire (was in a hurry and couldn't go to discount or costco), the tpms light was on and they didn't bother even checking air in the other tires yet were very quick to suggest a new air filter and brake flush.

Yeah, I would have to say I liken that place to a Jiffy Lube or similar. Only time I visited a Firestone was with an Internet quote for a set of 4 tires with a free alignment inspection. Surprisingly, the alignment didn't need an adjustment, and they didn't offer any other service. Had they suggested something else, I would've brought it to my mechanic.

A "mechanic" at Firestone likely makes $15 an hour, tops. A mechanic who owns his own shop makes what his shop brings in minus expenses. A mechanic who owns his own shop also is dependent upon customers coming back. He'll most definitely be apt to do the job right vs. a Firestone that looks for their associates to suggest extra, (often) unnecessary work to make some extra profit.

 

[JCH13]

For what its worth: I've driven a car with horribly un-balanced rear tires (yay for corded flat spots!) and I felt the vibrations in the steering wheel despite having well-balanced front wheels and tires. This was a race car on a test day trying to use up old tires.

A round-about way of saying that your bent wheel could easily cause steering wheel vibrations even if they're mounted on the back.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Do your own oil changes. The chain stores are notorious for screwing customers. They don't care if you don't come back. They have a million other suckers to draw in. Mom and pop shops used to be the scourge of car owners, but now that the big companies are putting the squeeze on them, they for the most part run honest shops now and depend on your repeat business.
I had a timing issue on my old 91 GTA and for the life of me couldn't get it to run right. Tried new plugs, wires, cap, roater nothing. even with the timing light I couldn't get it to set right. I called a local shop and said I could probably limp it in and they could look at it. They sent a guy to my house and he found the problem in 5 minutes and had it fixed. Never charged me a dime, just ask that I use them when I was going to do some more engine mods.
(Someone forgot to plug a vacuum hose back in) Woops.

 

[manimal]

Bad tire like JCH13 said can cause similar vibrations. I am as OCD as it gets and I had a slight vibration in my G. 4 mechanics looked at it and couldnt figure it out. Finally I replaced the rear rotors with NON oem ones and it went away.

My best advice when dealing with a complaint like this is kill them with kindness and get management involved. Since it is a chain customer experience reports are a key part of store managers performance structure.

Now from a friends experience Firestone is pretty much the best buy of auto repair...Not a evil entity per se but a massive fat sprawl of middle management and ruthless mechanics/salespeople told to upsell or else.....

Keep in mind these guys get payed extra for upselling those things..

Go see a reputable indipendent for your next work.

 

[Zivic]

For what its worth: I've driven a car with horribly un-balanced rear tires (yay for corded flat spots!) and I felt the vibrations in the steering wheel despite having well-balanced front wheels and tires. This was a race car on a test day trying to use up old tires.

A round-about way of saying that your bent wheel could easily cause steering wheel vibrations even if they're mounted on the back.

+1..

the wheel was probably the issue from the start. They threw parts at it not knowing what the heck was going on... there in lies your problem. if they really did replace the parts, I just don't see how you are going to get out of paying for them.

I highly doubt they bent your wheel. they could have on a test drive, but the chances are pretty small. It likely happened before the car was brought in... and no disrespect, if your wife was driving the car regularly, she likely was the culprit

 

[LTC8K6]

Going back to the original post, I don't think it was a bent wheel initially. One of the symptoms was squealing.

 

[edi sucks]

Thanks guys.

Zivik: no disrespect taken, but I drove the car from our place to Firestone on both the day of the oil change and the following day, when I went to drop it off for all this work. There was absolutely no vibration, trust me, I would have felt it. There was also damage on my front right bumper I noticed a few days later, but since I didn't think I had a bent rim (and assumed that they botched the hub bearing install) I let it go, the vibrations were my main concern. *I* and not my wife drove the car a few hundred feet before taking it back to complain about the vibrations. The car pulled left (and STILL pulls), and though I have lifetime alignment with, yes, firestone, I just figured they kept neglecting to align my car after the hub bearing work.

It gets even better- I misspoke when I said the control arm was replaced, I rechecked the receipt and it was the left inner tie rod. Anyway I showed the receipt to a local mechanic and he put my car on a lift and showed it it was NEVER CHANGED, the old part was still on and actually symptomatic. Firestone didn't forget to charge me however. Mechanic also said this was easy compared to a hub bearing install on my car, so if they didn't change this there's a good chance they didn't do anything with hub bearings.

And, what I already now know, I have a badly bent rim. Shady #$%#%!!! Can't believe I PAID to have them destroy my car.

I filed a claim with my credit card company, have pictures / letters from mechanics stating AND showing the old tie rod is still on. Not so sure how I'll handle the front end damage though..

 

[Rifter]

hmm, the firestone by my house actually does very good work. Its possible its owned by a completly different company in canada though.

I would have the CC company handle it and reverse the charges.

 

[mvbighead]

Thanks guys.

Zivik: no disrespect taken, but I drove the car from our place to Firestone on both the day of the oil change and the following day, when I went to drop it off for all this work. There was absolutely no vibration, trust me, I would have felt it. There was also damage on my front right bumper I noticed a few days later, but since I didn't think I had a bent rim (and assumed that they botched the hub bearing install) I let it go, the vibrations were my main concern. *I* and not my wife drove the car a few hundred feet before taking it back to complain about the vibrations. The car pulled left (and STILL pulls), and though I have lifetime alignment with, yes, firestone, I just figured they kept neglecting to align my car after the hub bearing work.

It gets even better- I misspoke when I said the control arm was replaced, I rechecked the receipt and it was the left inner tie rod. Anyway I showed the receipt to a local mechanic and he put my car on a lift and showed it it was NEVER CHANGED, the old part was still on and actually symptomatic. Firestone didn't forget to charge me however. Mechanic also said this was easy compared to a hub bearing install on my car, so if they didn't change this there's a good chance they didn't do anything with hub bearings.

And, what I already now know, I have a badly bent rim. Shady #$%#%!!! Can't believe I PAID to have them destroy my car.

I filed a claim with my credit card company, have pictures / letters from mechanics stating AND showing the old tie rod is still on. Not so sure how I'll handle the front end damage though..

That really, really sucks. Good thing you have a good mechanic though.

I honestly don't know how I would pursue that. I know I have seen many a news episode (mainly rebroadcast on youtube) where they have done a "6 on your side" type of deal and a reporter investigates allegations that people are getting charged for work that isn't being done. One even went so far as to acquire cars with actual problems, and drive them in for service.

They'd check them afterwards, and often find that nothing had been replaced. If you have such a news station, you could see if they were interested in the story. At least it'd sway more than just your business away from that place.

 

[Zivic]

Thanks guys.

Zivik: no disrespect taken, but I drove the car from our place to Firestone on both the day of the oil change and the following day, when I went to drop it off for all this work. There was absolutely no vibration, trust me, I would have felt it. There was also damage on my front right bumper I noticed a few days later, but since I didn't think I had a bent rim (and assumed that they botched the hub bearing install) I let it go, the vibrations were my main concern. *I* and not my wife drove the car a few hundred feet before taking it back to complain about the vibrations. The car pulled left (and STILL pulls), and though I have lifetime alignment with, yes, firestone, I just figured they kept neglecting to align my car after the hub bearing work.

It gets even better- I misspoke when I said the control arm was replaced, I rechecked the receipt and it was the left inner tie rod. Anyway I showed the receipt to a local mechanic and he put my car on a lift and showed it it was NEVER CHANGED, the old part was still on and actually symptomatic. Firestone didn't forget to charge me however. Mechanic also said this was easy compared to a hub bearing install on my car, so if they didn't change this there's a good chance they didn't do anything with hub bearings.

And, what I already now know, I have a badly bent rim. Shady #$%#%!!! Can't believe I PAID to have them destroy my car.

I filed a claim with my credit card company, have pictures / letters from mechanics stating AND showing the old tie rod is still on. Not so sure how I'll handle the front end damage though..

if this is all true, you have a lot of things to deal with.

bent wheel/damage to bumper is something that you need to figure out... was this prior damage or not?

you need to confront them with the paperwork and parts list they claim to have been replaced. You need to know going in, what is new, and what isn't. You may want to go make a list up with the other mechanic that looked at the inner tie rod. Look the car over thoroughly and make sure it wasn't just a typo -> ie stated left hand side, when they actually did replace the right hand side.

If things don't add up and you have proof, go back to the shop and have some kind, but firm words with the manager.

I feel for you. I hate taking my cars to shops. I am lucky I have a good friend that is a mechanic and my brother does body work for a living. I can do a lot of things myself, but when the job is too big for me, I have someone I can trust to take my car to.

This could have very easily been me just last week. I spent 2.5 days diagnosing a noise in my front end. turns out it was a bad ball-joint that I could have seen shops throwing parts to resolve .


again, if it were me, get your facts together and go have a talk with the manager

edit:
and the bent wheel -> been down that road before. though my old lady knew she did it and told me about it. messed it up pretty bad. Knocked the whole wheel out of round

 

[theevilsharpie]

It gets even better- I misspoke when I said the control arm was replaced, I rechecked the receipt and it was the left inner tie rod. Anyway I showed the receipt to a local mechanic and he put my car on a lift and showed it it was NEVER CHANGED, the old part was still on and actually symptomatic. Firestone didn't forget to charge me however.

Are you sure they didn't replace it with a reconditioned part?

 

[BUTCH1]

Do your own oil changes. The chain stores are notorious for screwing customers. They don't care if you don't come back. They have a million other suckers to draw in. Mom and pop shops used to be the scourge of car owners, but now that the big companies are putting the squeeze on them, they for the most part run honest shops now and depend on your repeat business.
I had a timing issue on my old 91 GTA and for the life of me couldn't get it to run right. Tried new plugs, wires, cap, roater nothing. even with the timing light I couldn't get it to set right. I called a local shop and said I could probably limp it in and they could look at it. They sent a guy to my house and he found the problem in 5 minutes and had it fixed. Never charged me a dime, just ask that I use them when I was going to do some more engine mods.
(Someone forgot to plug a vacuum hose back in) Woops.

There was the investigation about Jiffy lube rip-off, they were charging people for tranny flushes and fuel filter changes and just didn't even do the work. I think it's on you tube, they marked the filter and after taping the mechanic not changing it (after charging to do so). My brother had his oil changed at JL, next morning saw a puddle of oil under the car, the drain plug was on by 2-3 threads, thank god he saw it and didn't try to start the car. Firestone around here has the same reputation as stated by OP, get you in for a $15 oil change problem and then "find" problems, with the large population of elderly around here (FL) there are victims a plenty for them..

 

[7window]

Hard to trust mechanics nowadays. Even an honest ones hosed me. You have to learn how to fix cars if you don't want to ge ripoff

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Are you sure they didn't replace it with a reconditioned part?

WTF that's worse than not replacing it at all.


"Reconditioned" from firestone.. Rofl...

 

[mvbighead]

Hard to trust mechanics nowadays. Even an honest ones hosed me. You have to learn how to fix cars if you don't want to ge ripoff

Honest plus ripped you off, in my book, != honest.

I dunno. I may not always agree with something my mechanics say or do, but they are straightforward, and if something has to be corrected after the initial service, they take care of it without charging me. They do this because they want me to come back the next time. And I always do with any service that isn't an oil change or tire replacement.

 

[mvbighead]

WTF that's worse than not replacing it at all.


"Reconditioned" from firestone.. Rofl...

I dunno how much I agree here.

Reconditioned parts aren't necessarily uncommon in some cases. For instance, the brake booster I replaced was a reconditioned part. New would have been double the cost. So long as they don't charge new prices to do something like that, I don't necessarily see a problem.

As to the statement you responded to, paying for something to be replaced period and having it not touched is ridiculous. That's bold face lying/stealing from your customer's pockets.

In addition, it should be pretty clear to a mechanic whether the part was replaced at all. A used part is going to have wear and tear, dust, possibly some aged rubber/plastic, whatever the case may be that relates to that particular part. If they claim to have replaced my rotors, they'll be shiny and not corroded. There should be no question as to whether they actually did what they said they did.

 

[pauldun170]

Last time I was at a Firestone (for tires) they brought up a few other issues.
Told them that I have a regular mechanic and that's where my business goes for regular repairs that I cannot do myself. (which is 100% accurate)
Most mechanics respect that and will refocus on what the car is in for, not on "opportunities fore additional revenue"

I also tend to give a once over of my car before bringing it anywhere.
Them - "You need brakes"
Me - I Know...the front brakes only have another 1000miles on em. I have the parts at home...just haven't gotten around to it,

Them - You rotors are toast...you need new ones soon.
Me - Factory spec is x mm. They were at y mm a few weeks ago. What measurement did you get?

Them - "You could probably use an injector service"
Me - "What code did you pull?"
Them - "We didn't run a diagnostic but at x miles most cars usually get all gummed up..."
Me - "No thanks"

There are lots of good, honest mechanics out there.
There are a lot of resources for car owners to learn about their own cars if you cant find an honest and competent mechanic.