Distributing SETI across a network?

[IndyJaws]

Hey all!

After reading the thread in OT about the DSL Reports challenge, I had an idea (usually a scary thing )...

I work in the IT department of a large regional retailer. We probably have about 400 PC's that sit unused from late afternoon until the next morning. I'd love for them to be involved in this, but since I'm new to distributed computing, I have a few questions first:

1) Can I distribute the program over the network? Would it require SMS (or something similar) to do the remote installation, or can it be placed in a startup folder?

2) I believe there is an "invisible" client that can run, rather than the screensaver. Is this correct? Knowing many of the users, they'll be confused if they see a screensaver pop out of nowhere.

3) Would each PC have to have its own unique login, or could they all be under the same user?

Thanks in advance for all your help. I hope I'll be able to contribute to the cause!

 

[Smoke]

IndyJaws, you are just the man we have been looking for. Standby, I will get people to help you with this.

 

[Confused]

Take a look at Sukhoi's Seti Service installations. these run when the PC is on, and does not require the user to be logged on. This runs in the background, not like the GUI (Screen Saver)

If there is one PC with an internet connection, then you can set up a SetiQueue on that machine to connect to Berkeley or OrangeKid's proxy

All these computers can use the same login email for Seti, then your account will get the credit, as will the TeAm

When i can think fully, then if no one else has, then i will post more help, but i'm sure someone (or some people) will step in and fill out my points in more detail!

Great assimilation if you can get these up and running

Just make sure that you have written permission to install Seti on the machines, that is the most important things

ConfusedBW

 

[Smoke]

IndyJaws,

I've got more people on the way to help you with this but there is something very important you must do right away. You need to get SETI going on one computer and as soon as you get your SETI PASSWORD from Seti@Home you need to signup for Team AnandTech SETI. You must be a member before the race with DSL Reports starts.

So, for that one computer that you have direct access Go to this site and follow the instructions for Method 2

and then with your SETI PASSWORD and SETI EMAIL ADDRESS in hand Go to the Team AnandTech SETI Signup Page and join the TeAm.

Contact me if you have any problems.

 

[OhioDude]

Hi, IndyJaws!

First of all, make sure you get permission to install the Seti client on all of those machines. That's very important in light of certain events taking place with a TA member down in Georgia.

The "invisible" client would be the CLI that runs from a command prompt. It can be made to run invisibly by using SetiDriver to hide the command prompt window or it can be run hidden as a service. For more information on SetiDriver, follow the links I've included at the end of this post.

As far as distributing the client over the network, I'm not sure whether any of the client installs floating around here would allow an unattended installation to take place. You need to provide some information to the client the first time it is executed on a system and I'm not sure if that can be provided via command-line arguments... Maybe someone else can help me out with this one. If you had SMS running and configured to allow remote control to the clients, you could manually install the clients from one location, still a big job but it could be done from one system.

Echoing what CBW said, it would be a dandy idea to use Setiqueue on at least one system that would then be used as a proxy for the other systems. The Setiqueue does all of the communicating with Berkeley and can be used as a wu cache so that if Berkeley goes down, your clients will still be able to submit wu's to the Setiqueue and get new wu's to process. Now, with 400 clients, your Setiqueue will be pretty busy so you may want to consider setting up several systems as Setiqueues.

I think the main point is whether or not you can install the 400 clients remotely over a lan/wan and I'm afraid I can't answer that question... Hopefully someone can jump in here and help with that one.

Here's a couple of links to some help pages that should help you out.

http://www.teriba.com/seti.html
http://home.adelphia.net/~sukhoi/help.htm

 

[Robor]

IndyJaws: What kind of PC's are they (speed & RAM) and what OS are they running. IMO, you shouldn't load the SETI client on anything below a P2-300 with at least 64MB of memory. It will run on slower machines but if users are working on them they may notice a slowdown, especially if they've only got under 64MB of RAM.

Installing the client as a service is the best way to go. That way it's running hidden (so the user can't play with it) and it runs when the user is logged off the machine. I only use the service install for WinNT/2K/XP machines but I think there's a program to use it under Win9x as well. The easiest way to setup the SETI network is to make one machine (must have internet access) the server and the rest of the desired machines on the network the clients. The server runs SetiQ and the clients upload and download their work through the SetiQ system. The SetiQ server then contacts the main Berkeley server (or it can go through another SetiQ server like Orange Kids) and uploads completed work units and downloads more work units to be analyzed.

Setting up SetiQ is fairly simple and the client installs are easy as well but if you're dealing with NT/2000/XP you need to be an admin on the machine or domain to install the SETI service.

Oh, like Smokeball said, go join the team real quick so we can include you in the race!

Edit: Oh yeah, like OhioDude said, make sure you have permission to install the clients.

 

[Sukhoi]

<< You must be a member before the race with DSL Reports starts. >>



You sure about that Smokeball? I know existing WUs don't count for the race, but all new production counts right?

#1 - Not sure how to push it remotely across a network, though I'm almost positive it can be done. soni, or IsOs might know how. Check out my NT/2K Service Install. It's pretty simple, and would be a good canidate for remote installation I would think. You could also check out IsOs's SETI Driver service installs in my help thread (sig), he has them for almost any OS.

#2 - Just install it as a service and it's totally hidden. Plus it runs at the login screen.

#3 - Yep, same logon. If you distribute the same user_info.sah with the service installs, you should never have to touch the client after installing the service. It won't need to be logged into your user since all that info is in the user_info.sah file. And if you set up a local SETIQ server, just use that address as the proxy server (with the -proxy IP: port (no space after colon) switch).

Would the service have to be run only at night? SETI almost only (there are a few exceptions) uses idle CPU cycles, so as long as the machines have atleast 64 MB of RAM the users shouldn't notice anything.

 

[networkman]

Echoing what Robor and others have said -> Make sure you have permission first! That's key.

I use SetiQ here at home for my machines(11 of them) and it works well. The last time there was a major cable outage(@Home cable), I already had my SetiQ packed with about 330 work units(long enough for 1.5 weeks). Fortunately, my cable wasn't down long, but it was a life-saver, both for my own stats and for TA.

Edit: Oh yeah, on distributing the app, using the login scripts in your network to create directories and copy the necessary files down to the local systems would at least save you some time with installation, but of course, it depends on how your network is set up. If I can find a way to do the same, I might have a shot at the same thing at a large contractor in my area.

 

[IsOs]

Your intent to joing Team AnandTech effort is very much appreciated.

After you have obtain permission from the proper authority in your company, ask for a system administrator access (even temporary) so you could properly install services. Most corporate computer network usually have a central server. If you have access to this server then the installation will probably be easier. Running SETI Q in one of the computers that have internet access will be ideal.

Please inform us of the following:
1. Operating systems used in these computers.
2. Network protocols available in your network (some corporate computer network specifically DOES NOT have TCP/IP to prevent internet access)
3. Network administration tools available to you.

If you have admin rights and remote directory access on all of these computers, you can place a shortcut in the startup folder of each computer that will install SETI client and/or SETI Driver as service. You could possibly set them up to start and stop on a particular hours. All of these are dependent on your access rights to these computers.

Goodluck

 

[IndyJaws]

<< IndyJaws, I've got more people on the way to help you with this but there is something very important you must do right away. You need to get SETI going on one computer and as soon as you get your SETI PASSWORD from Seti@Home you need to signup for Team AnandTech SETI. You must be a member before the race with DSL Reports starts. So, for that one computer that you have direct access Go to this site and follow the instructions for Method 2 and then with your SETI PASSWORD and SETI EMAIL ADDRESS in hand Go to the Team AnandTech SETI Signup Page and join the TeAm. Contact me if you have any problems. >>



Wow! What an outporing of support!

I did just sign up and am now a proud member of Team AnandTech!

I'll try to answer a few of the questions from others:

1) No question, I will make sure to have permission to distribute the client! I don't think that will be a problem, but I'm not about to take that chance :Q

2) The machines are all running either Win NT or 2K Pro. Processors range from Celeron 266 to PIII/933. Most have 64-128 MB RAM.

3) I do have full administrative access to the network (both on local machines and domain).

4) All the machines have Internet connectivity, ranging from 56k leased lines to frame to T-1. The 56k lines are in the process of being upgraded to frame.

I will look at Sukhoi's instructions for setting up NT/2K service installation. I will preface that I am more of a hardware support technician, rather than network administration, so I might have some questions after looking at it. I do have a decent amount of NT/2K experience, though, and should be able to muddle through it

My main concerns are:
1) There are no pop-ups (the run minimized for the shortcut seems to have fixed that)
2) There is nothing in the task bar (if possible)
3) There is little to no hit in productivity on both the machines and on the network
4) Setting up a SetiQ. I don't really have any spare machines sitting around that can serve as the proxy. I can use my desktop (PIII/866, 256MB), but don't want a major performance hit.

Thanks for all the responses! Hopefully it will all work out

 

[IsOs]

I would still suggest having 1 SETI Q in your network. Then you can use the SETI Driver installation files for Windows 2000 (link is on Sukhoi's SETI help).

Do you have administrative access of registry and ability to restart computer turn on over the network?

On Windows NT/2000, running as service will never have a pop up or system tray icon.

I'm preparing to leave this location, but will check this thread later.

 

[Sukhoi]

One advantage of running a central SETIQ is you can tell if a certain computer stops submitting WUs..this would indicate some type of a problem your IT department would probably like to check out.

If you know what processors are in each individual machines, don't install SETI on any Celeron 266's or 300's (without the L2 cache). It will take absolutely forever for a WU.

I would doubt you would take much of a performance hit even running a SETIQ for 400 clients. Each uncrunched WU is 350 KB and each result is 3 KB (average). So per computer there really isn't a whole lot of data flying around per day. You can also set SETIQ to only update its cache at certain times, so you could have it do it overnight for even less interruption.

 

[IndyJaws]

I can volunteer my desktop machine for the SetiQ, as long as it doesn't bog it down too badly.

I will check to see if I do have remote restarting of machines access over the network. I know I do have registry access.

I just discovered someone in our department was already running Seti@home. I've sent him the info to join the team. I believe he has 300-400 WU. It's a nice start

 

[RaySun2Be]

After securing permission, I would recomend the following:

1. Install SETIQ on your PC or one that isn't used much, preferably with a static IP address, although the computer name can be used depending on how your network is setup. You can schedule it to either flush and fetch WUs all day, or connect between certain hours. If it is your PC, you can set it up to fetch/flush WUs after hours when you aren't there.

I haven't noticed SETIQ taking up much resources when I've been on the PC running my SETIQ

2. Point your SETIQ to fetch/flush to Orange Kid's SETIQ, that way you have a double check (and more stats!) www.orangekid.teamanandtech.com:5017
3. Install SETIDRIVER as a service on each PC. Set the service to manual. Make sure SETIDRIVER is pointing to your SETIQ. If running your own SETIQ isn't possible, point them to Orange Kid's. Also set the # of WUs per PC to hold several days worth of WUs.
4. Setup a schedule task on each PC to start SETIDRIVER at an appropriate time each night.
5. Setup a schedule task on each PC to stop SETIDRIVER at an appropriate time each morning.
6. Have fun!

 

[Smoke]

I just discovered someone in our department was already running Seti@home. I've sent him the info to join the team. I believe he has 300-400 WU. It's a nice start

My kind of guy.

 

[Shuxclams]

I have a good install script that is/was a modified SONI W2K install. It can be set up to run from whatever time the PC's start being idle in the afternoon and will shut the process down in the morning when people arrive to work. The registry settings can be modified as well to direct traffic to your SETIQ. For instance "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Stli\parameters\AppParameters" "REG_SZ -proxy indiejaws.work.local:5517"

With the version I put together there is never a single instance of the word "SETI" used anywhere in the searchable files or folders. It hides (attrib -h) all the folders and files involved with running it. And best of all it runs as a service so the machine only has to be left "ON".

You will have to add your own "user_info.sah" to the install directory but the script can be found Here






SHUX

 

[IndyJaws]

More great info here

I'm getting ready to install SetiQ on my desktop. I do have a nailed (static) IP, so that won't be a problem. Is there any reason to change the default port?

Shuxclams, I'm going to PM you with some questions. I don't want to look like a complete idiot to the entire board

 

[Smoke]

Shuxclams, I'm going to PM you with some questions. I don't want to look like a complete idiot to the entire board

That's not fair... I have always believed what's the point of being stupid if you can't show it every once in a while. HA

/shut up Sukhoi :|

 

[Shuxclams]

IndieJaws, not to worry, we are all here to help.












SHUX

 

[IndyJaws]

<< 1. Install SETIQ on your PC or one that isn't used much, preferably with a static IP address, although the computer name can be used depending on how your network is setup. You can schedule it to either flush and fetch WUs all day, or connect between certain hours. If it is your PC, you can set it up to fetch/flush WUs after hours when you aren't there. 2. Point your SETIQ to fetch/flush to Orange Kid's SETIQ, that way you have a double check (and more stats!) www.orangekid.teamanandtech.com:5017 >>



1) I've now installed SETIQ and configured it with my IP, subnet and default port. How do you recommend setting the Queue Server settings? I don't mind if it fetches and flushes all day; it appears that the default is 1 AM - 3 AM. Any other changes that need to be made?

2) Where do I point SETIQ to Orange Kid's SETIQ?

 

[OhioDude]

IndyJaws --

I flush my SetiQ between 8:00 PM and 7:00 AM, but I think that most people flush constantly. To do that you can set your start time as 12:00 AM and end time as 11:59 PM.

To use Orange Kid's proxy, enter orangekid.teamanandtech.com in Proxy Server and 5001 in Port #. For connection type, try the default WinInet. I use MS Proxy Server 2.0 at the office and I had to use WinSock Proxy as my connection type for my SetiQ server to play nice with MS Proxy.

 

[Shuxclams]

I run my SETIQ strait to berkley, its a nicety and not totally needed, but it is a nice backup should berkley have an outage. I have my queue filled with 10 days of Wu's so its pretty well stocked.




BTW: YHPM






SHUX

 

[IndyJaws]

<< IndyJaws -- I flush my SetiQ between 8:00 PM and 7:00 AM, but I think that most people flush constantly. To do that you can set your start time as 12:00 AM and end time as 11:59 PM. To use Orange Kid's proxy, enter orangekid.teamanandtech.com in Proxy Server and 5001 in Port #. For connection type, try the default WinInet. I use MS Proxy Server 2.0 at the office and I had to use WinSock Proxy as my connection type for my SetiQ server to play nice with MS Proxy. >>



Do I want port 5001 or 5017? Or does it not matter?
Also, I am assuming the Username and password fields do not need to be filled in...

Thanks to Shuxclams and his script, once I get official permission, I can start installing on machines, possibly as early as tomorrow

 

[Sukhoi]

Remember that for SETIQ to DL new WUs it first needs to upload a completed WU.

 

[OhioDude]

I use port 5001 in my config.

You are correct in that you do not need a username and password for OK's proxy.