DIY NAS - better & cheaper than DS1511+ (or DS412+)

[reilos]

Hi there,

I'm looking to build my own home nas. Thje ones in the title seem to be the best choices available at the moment, but their price is high. It seems to me that we should be able to build a better system, for less money.
What components do you recommend and why?

I'm looking for:

- Lots of storage, preferably expandable (thinking of the WD Reds)

-Performance, for connections to multiple pc's. (that's where link aggregration comes in, right?

-Silence

- Energy consumption

Thanks!

p.s. also could use some help on RAID/unRAID, other RAID-like things.....

EDIT:

What this NAS is going to be used for:

- Stream HD movies to (preferably) 3 tv's at the same time. Pre-processing (not sure if that is the correct term), like Plex does, is not nessecary, that would probably need some serious hardware for 3 or mote pc's.
- A LOT of RAW (25MB) images will go on there, since i am a semi-pro photographer - cannot afford to loose those!
- It will also be used to backup some other data, from multiple sources (laptos, pc's & phones)
- I have a cheap spare 3TB NAS that i will use for backups
- I would like to download (and check and extract) files from newsgroups and torrents @ night if possible - but that will probably not be the crux here.

I would like as much storage as possible and would REALLY hate to loose the data. Of course, most valuable data will be backed up on the old nas, but still....

Hope this calrifies a bit.

Last note, a bit better than just the nessecary hardware is also great. I do like the idea of server-grade hardware. Even thinking of buying a managed switch that can handle LAG/LACP (providing the nas will support that too) if it helps speed things up.

But then again...i AM on a budget. About 1000 euro's to start with. :S

 

[Balforth]

+1

A build with equivalent performance to the DS412+ for some fraction of the $600 Synology price tag would be awesome.

 

[skycake]

I'm running a custom-built NAS with Freenas using an old motherboard and processor from my previous build (Phenom II X4, Asus M5A97 mobo, 16 GB of RAM). I put it in an NZXT Source 210 because it was cheap, one of the smallest standard ATX cases I could find, and had 8 3.5" internal mounts. I used three 3 TB Western Digital Greens in RAIDZ1 for 6 TB of effective storage and fault tolerance of one drive failure.

Freenas is quite nice. It was pretty easy to set up and has been bulletproof so far. I'm using it for media storage and real-time backup storage for Genie Timeline. I highly suggest using ZFS and at least RAIDZ1, if not RAIDZ2 in a Freenas build (not using ZFS would be silly as ZFS is one of the biggest advantages of Freenas). Sufficient RAM is important, however, as it's generally advised to have as many GB of RAM as you have TB of storage in a ZFS pool.

How much cheaper it is than a Synology or something comparable depends on what components you already have lying around. I only needed to get a case and power supply, so it was extremely cheap for me. If you're building one from scratch, you can go way below even what I had, as the prebuilt NAS's tend to use Atoms or ARM processors. Pretty much any modern processor can run Freenas; the limiting factor is usually RAM and SATA ports.

The main drawback of my build is size, being in a standard ATX case. I get around that by having the processor significantly downclocked to 2.0 GHz so the fans can run very quietly and putting it in a corner behind my TV stand. Unless the house is completely silent, I can't hear it. If you could run a network cable to a closet (there was no convenient way for me to do so) that would be even better.

 

[mfenn]

The real draw of the Synology units are the form factor and software. You're not going to get something that is as slickly integrated for the same price. You're also going to have to do more software legwork on your own. FreeNAS is very nice, but it doesn't touch what DSM can do without extra work.

With that in mind:
Pentium G3220 $60 AP
ASUS H87I-PLUS $115 - least expensive ITX Intel board with 6 SATA ports
Crucial DDR3 1600 8GB $67 - leaves a slot free for upgrades
Add HDDs to taste
Corsair CX430M $40 AR
Fractal Design Node 304 $90
Molex to SATA power adapter x2 $8
Total: $380 AR AP

 

[code65536]

If you want a small, compact case with hot-swap bays, Chenbro makes one. It's pricey, though. I have an older model that's quite a bit smaller (also with four 3.5" hotswap bays), but sadly, they discontinued that model.

 

[reilos]

Thanks for all the advice all!

So....After some reading here and other forums, this is what i came up with until now, for use i.c.w. FreeNAS (ZFS, not sure about RAIDZ# level, leaning towards 4-disk mirrored+striped):

Motherboard
Supermicro X10SLH-F
uATX, 6x SATA-3
Dual Gigabit Ethernet LAN ports via 2x Intel® i210AT
Supports up to 32 GB 1600MHz ECC DDR3 SDRAM Un-Buffered memory (UDIMM), 72-bit, 240-pin gold-plated DIMMs

CPU
Intel Xeon E3-1245 v3
8M Cache, 3.40 GHz, 4 cores
ECC support
Built-in support for encryption and virtualization
The built-in graphics aren't really nessecary, but it only costs a few euro's more

Memory
2 sticks of these:
Kingston KVR16E11/8EF 8GB Module - DDR3 1600MHz Server Premier (Fact Sheet)
8GB 2Rx8 1G x 72-Bit PC3-12800 CL11 ECC 240-Pin DIMM (unbuffered)

Case
Fractal Design Node 304 Black
Quiet, cool, nice design

PSU
Corsair VX450W
Litle old, but still gets some great reviews!

Total costs: 772 euro

I guess i'm going way over budget already...as usual...

I also took a quick peek at SAS setup (the Supermicro X10SL7-F board would be perfect for this), but the bottom line is that the drives are just WAY too expensive.

So...Any thoughts on this setup?

 

[piasabird]

Wonder about the Used Server Market.

 

[mode101wpb]

I built a NAS using a MSI Wind PC with an Intel Atom, max HDD I could use was 2 due to space and I had to buy a cheap bracket to mount the 2nd HDD in the optical bay.

The wind also has a CF adapter, so I used FreeNAS which boots from a small CF drive which are cheap.

No longer being made, but 2nd hand they are cheap.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16856167032

 

[piasabird]

Try going to the Home Theater section and ask Assasin what he thinks. He use to build multimedia servers. I don't know if he still does or not. Your looking at Hardware $600 + $1,000 for 5 large capacity drives + OS.

I think a case with some fans might be important also. If you spend hundreds on the hard drives then you want them to stay cool. A larger case with space between the hard drives might be a plus also. I wouldn't want to stack 5 $200 drives so tightly they are one on top of the other. It looks like they do this in some servers I have seen. If one drive tends to run warm, I wonder how warm 5 drives will be right next to each other.

I don't see the need for an XEON. Processor. What was your experience in the past?

What do you think is the weak point? Is it the server or the router?

Think it is worth it to go with a gigabit router? We usually get a gigabit Ethernet on the motherboard but do we all have a gigabit router?

 

[Knavish]

Thanks for all the advice all!
So....After some reading here and other forums, this is what i came up with until now, for use i.c.w. FreeNAS (ZFS, not sure about RAIDZ# level, leaning towards 4-disk mirrored+striped):

RAIDZ isn't used to do the mirrored+striped configuration the way you can with RAID0+1 (or whatever you want to call it). Typically you choose RAIDZ1 or RAIDZ2. Z1 can withstand a single drive failure and Z2 can withstand two drive failures. It's similar to RAID5 / RAID6.

People tend to worry that if a single drive dies in a RAIDZ1 that a second drive can die during the rebuild after a new drive is swapped in place. Of course, you can just restore from your backup, right???
There's a bunch of good RAIDZ info in this thread, primarily thanks to mfenn:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2351232

I'm curious if a RAIDZ2 file server would run fine with the dual core Pentium G3220, which does have unbuffered ECC support with the right motherboard. It looks like the Supermicro board you chose would support this Pentium CPU. This would save you USD$200.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for all the advice all!

So....After some reading here and other forums, this is what i came up with until now, for use i.c.w. FreeNAS (ZFS, not sure about RAIDZ# level, leaning towards 4-disk mirrored+striped):

Motherboard
Supermicro X10SLH-F
uATX, 6x SATA-3
Dual Gigabit Ethernet LAN ports via 2x Intel® i210AT
Supports up to 32 GB 1600MHz ECC DDR3 SDRAM Un-Buffered memory (UDIMM), 72-bit, 240-pin gold-plated DIMMs

CPU
Intel Xeon E3-1245 v3
8M Cache, 3.40 GHz, 4 cores
ECC support
Built-in support for encryption and virtualization
The built-in graphics aren't really nessecary, but it only costs a few euro's more

Memory
2 sticks of these:
Kingston KVR16E11/8EF 8GB Module - DDR3 1600MHz Server Premier (Fact Sheet)
8GB 2Rx8 1G x 72-Bit PC3-12800 CL11 ECC 240-Pin DIMM (unbuffered)

Case
Fractal Design Node 304 Black
Quiet, cool, nice design

PSU
Corsair VX450W
Litle old, but still gets some great reviews!

Total costs: 772 euro

I guess i'm going way over budget already...as usual...

I also took a quick peek at SAS setup (the Supermicro X10SL7-F board would be perfect for this), but the bottom line is that the drives are just WAY too expensive.

So...Any thoughts on this setup?

Unfortunately, this setup won't actually work. The Node 304 is a mini-ITX case whereas that SuperMicro mobo is Micro-ATX.

Basically, it seems to me that you're paying about double for a quad-core processor and ECC support. I don't really see how either of those are necessary for a home server. I run much larger ZFS arrays on much weaker CPUs than the G3220 (old-ass Opterons) and have never had the CPU be the bottleneck. As for ECC, yes it is nice to have, but I don't think its worth the premium on a home server where relatively little data will be in flight at a given time.

 

[reilos]

RAIDZ isn't used to do the mirrored+striped configuration the way you can with RAID0+1 (or whatever you want to call it). Typically you choose RAIDZ1 or RAIDZ2. Z1 can withstand a single drive failure and Z2 can withstand two drive failures. It's similar to RAID5 / RAID6.
.

That's not correct. You can create a Striped Mirrored Vdev Zpool:

VDEVs can be nested. A perfect example is a standard RAID-1+0 (commonly referred to as "RAID-10"). This is a stripe of mirrors. In order to specify the nested VDEVs, just put them on the command line in order (emphasis mine):

# zpool create tank mirror sde sdf mirror sdg sdh
# zpool status
  pool: tank
 state: ONLINE
 scan: none requested
config:

     NAME        STATE     READ WRITE CKSUM
	tank        ONLINE       0     0     0
	  mirror-0  ONLINE       0     0     0
	    sde     ONLINE       0     0     0
	    sdf     ONLINE       0     0     0
	  mirror-1  ONLINE       0     0     0
	    sdg     ONLINE       0     0     0
	    sdh     ONLINE       0     0     0

errors: No known data errors

The first VDEV is "mirror-0" which is managing /dev/sde and /dev/sdf. This was done by calling "mirror sde sdf". The second VDEV is "mirror-1" which is managing /dev/sdg and /dev/sdh. This was done by calling "mirror sdg sdh". Because VDEVs are always dynamically striped, "mirror-0" and "mirror-1" are striped, thus creating the RAID-1+0 setup.

 

[reilos]

Unfortunately, this setup won't actually work. The Node 304 is a mini-ITX case whereas that SuperMicro mobo is Micro-ATX.

You are right, i missed that. Any suggestions? Had a look at the Define Mini, but the reviews aren't that good (especially on airflow and non-silent series fans).

 

[Balforth]

The real draw of the Synology units are the form factor and software. You're not going to get something that is as slickly integrated for the same price. You're also going to have to do more software legwork on your own. FreeNAS is very nice, but it doesn't touch what DSM can do without extra work.

With that in mind:
Pentium G3220 $60 AP
ASUS H87I-PLUS $115 - least expensive ITX Intel board with 6 SATA ports
Crucial DDR3 1600 8GB $67 - leaves a slot free for upgrades
Add HDDs to taste
Corsair CX430M $40 AR
Fractal Design Node 304 $90
Molex to SATA power adapter x2 $8
Total: $380 AR AP

Do you run DSM? I've heard so much hype about FreeNAS that I didn't look too much into other OSs and just came across DSM last night. Now I'm confused as to which route to take.

I also stumbled across this guy's page where he compares his home NAS build using several different OSs and RAID types. DSM seems to out-perform FreeNAS.

http://diy-nas.blogspot.sg/2013/06/31-test-methods-and-setup.html

 

[mfenn]

Do you run DSM? I've heard so much hype about FreeNAS that I didn't look too much into other OSs and just came across DSM last night. Now I'm confused as to which route to take.

I also stumbled across this guy's page where he compares his home NAS build using several different OSs and RAID types. DSM seems to out-perform FreeNAS.

http://diy-nas.blogspot.sg/2013/06/31-test-methods-and-setup.html

I would personally would not run DSM on anything other than a Synology unit. Some of that is because I don't like piracy but the rest is because ZFS gives me a ton of confidence. If I had a full PC, I would run FreeNAS.

 

[mfenn]

You are right, i missed that. Any suggestions? Had a look at the Define Mini, but the reviews aren't that good (especially on airflow and non-silent series fans).

I think that you should go with the mini-ITX setup I listed earlier. I don't really see you getting your money's worth out of the quad-core and ECC RAM.

 

[delonm]

You may want to consider one of the microservers such as the HP N54L. You can pick them up for under $300 (if you are lucky and catch them as a ShellShocker on the egg they are closer to $200). They come with just about everything you need: AMD CPU, ECC RAM support, 4 SATA ports, internal USB port, etc. You would need to upgrade the RAM, but otherwise you simpliy add disks and go.

I found a good deal on a Fujitsu microserver and built a NAS4Free based NAS with 4X4GB drives in a ZFS "raid 10" config. It is currently supporting AFS for my wife's iMac, SMB/CIFS for my Win7 box and NFS for my IP security cameras. Using the onboard NIC, I get around 80-90MB/s throughput running through the Gb switch built into my ASUS wireless router.

I am not sure about the sound profile for the HP server, buy my Fujitsu is a touch on the noisy side. That is the only thing that I am not completely satisfied with yet. I expect that I could swap out the stock fan and reduce the noise, but haven't bothered yet.

Rolling your own NAS is a fun project. It is definitely not "plug and play" but easy enough to do for a computer enthusiast.

Good luck!

 

[radhak]

Hi there,

I'm looking to build my own home nas. The ones in the title seem to be the best choices available at the moment, but their price is high. It seems to me that we should be able to build a better system, for less money.
What components do you recommend and why?

...

i AM on a budget. About 1000 euro's to start with. :S

So....After some reading here and other forums, this is what i came up with .....
Total costs: 772 euro

As somebody who's also (over)thinking this build-vs-buy question, I gotta ask - your original budget, and the price for your first-pick configuration, seems to be more than what those Synology would cost, even after accounting for their disks. So I guess it's not just a matter of money, right?

 

[Balforth]

I just built this:

ram Ddr3-1333 4Gb/512Mx72 Ecc Cl9 Server Memory
ram Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC System Specific Memory Model KTH-PL313E/4G $85
mobo SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCL-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C202 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard $152.99
cpu Intel Pentium 2 LGA 1155 Processor BX80637G2030 $63.49
psu Seasonic 360W 80PLUS Gold ATX12V Power Supply SSR-360GP $59.99
case NZXT Technologies Source 210 Computer Case (Black) $34.72

Total price under $400 (although I bought the RAM used). The case comes with a single case fan which is 100% silent. There are a bunch of places to mount additional 120mm fans all around the case. Surprisingly, the CPU fan that came with the CPU is also completely silent.

Oh ya, and I grabbed one of these to run FreeNAS... super tiny profile for an 8GB USB drive:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[aigomorla]

u need one of these too balforth unless u want to occupy a rear usb port or a front pannel header port..

but if u have one of those, u can even keep the flash drive on the board hidden.

 

[Balforth]

Well, the motherboard actually as a type-a connector on it, so I can attach directly to the motherboard internally without an adapter. And I would if I had a traditional giant bulky USB stick, but those SanDisk Cruzers are so tiny, I can just leave it on the front USB port just in the off chance I need to re-image it or something. It doesn't even stick out past the front panel of the case.

 

[reilos]

As somebody who's also (over)thinking this build-vs-buy question, I gotta ask - your original budget, and the price for your first-pick configuration, seems to be more than what those Synology would cost, even after accounting for their disks. So I guess it's not just a matter of money, right?

Well, it does make for a much better system though... But it is definately more than i am able to afford now. So maybe start off with just 2 4TB reds mirrored and expand later.

Basically, i want just want too much...
- Fast performance for streaming HD content to multiple devices at once
- Data integrety: I do make back-ups of crucial data, but i would hate losing all my media files too. Would cost me a lot of time to get all of it back on the NAS if lost
- Silent
- As low-power-consuming as possible