DIY vs PrePackaged (Dell)

[acorcoran]

As mentioned in earlier posts, I am new to the forum and quite out of date with the newer technology. To give you a feeling, the last time that I built my own computer, I was working on a Pentium 200. Well, I?ve been struggling with some thoughts and ideas on my next computer and was looking for some feedback/thoughts/suggestions.

After reading quite a few threads, I put together a computer that I thought would be a great computer for all around computing and would also allow for the higher spectrum of gaming. The following is a list of what I thought would make an excellent PC for my needs:

Item Cost
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Motherboard $199.99
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Winchester) Processor $208.00
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound $9.99
Zalman Aluminium/Copper LED CPU Heatsink/Fan $39.99
Crucial Ballistix 512MB DDR PC-3200 RAM (2 * $113.00) $226.00
BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC PCI Express Video Card $399.99
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 200GB Hard Drive $121.00
Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM Drive (Black) $29.75
NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive (Black) $75.00
SONY Floppy Drive (Black) $15.00
Enermax Noisetaker 470W Power Supply $80.99
Lian Li PC-61 $100.99
Vantec Spectrum PCI Fan Card $19.99
Grand Total $1,506.69

I then priced a comparably equipped Dell Dimension 8400 (including a 17? flat panel which was a free upgrade) and the price was about $1250.00. Now, please understand that I am not looking for a flame fest, but simply some reasons for or against a DIY box or a Dell box.

Just off the top of my head, I know upgrades are a big deal with the DIY boxes. It is much easier to salvage pieces?however, let us take a 2 year time frame between upgrades. In 2 years, wouldn?t I still have to replace most of the major expense parts on the DIY (MB, CPU, RAM, Graphics Card) which would total roughly $1033.33? The advantage would be I get exactly what I would want.

Now an advantage to the Dell box would be you get pretty much what you want, with a 17? flat panel included, 2 years of support (should anything go wrong) and in 2 years, come upgrade time, the disadvantage would be that I would need an entirely new box, however, the monitor could be salvaged.

Again, I am not looking for flames, simply some intelligent pros and cons because I am the first to admit that my knowledge is limited and I am trying to dust off my brain =).

 

[laurenlex]

Your DIY specs look really nice. Yes, that will cost more than the Dell, but Dell's motherboard, power supply, drives, ect... will be lesser quality then your parts spec. Plus, you can't get an AMD with a Dell.

You could save a lot of money by getting an Antec case with power supply for about $70. A gig of Corsair value ram is about $140. That motherboard is pricey!!! You are not really comparing apples to apples, although that is hard on a P4 vs. A64.

As for support, who needs Dell, you found Anandtech forums!

 

[CSMR]

Go with Dell unless you have special requirements.

 

[fuzzynavel]

The Dell PC may look like a deal but they will have cut back somewhere!!!

Look at the RAM have they cut it back...

Look especially closely at the graphics setup on the dell.... if it is intel shared graphics or even a budget card like the 5200 or 9200 then leave it well alone....

Would you mind giving the specs of the dell so that we may rip it apart like a pack of dogs!!!

If you do a forum search for "Dell" most of the threads turn into flame wars about why dell is shit......there is not usually smoke without fire........

Another point.....you have gone for a reasonably mid/high end graphics card in your setup.....are you going to be gaming or is it just future-proofing???

Also 2 years down the line you may have to replace everything in your Dell and DIY due to technology advancements....read dual-core and various others!!


OK so for your To-do list

Specs for the Dell and main uses of the machine!!

Oh yeah forgot.....DELL USES INTEL!!!!! don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Intel isn't always better inside but entirely personal preference and the uses of the machine...

 

[KB]

In two years you would probably need a new box even if you DIY. Processor pin counts change often, and with a new processor you often times need a new motherboard and RAM. It looks like going with Dell you would save money but there are some things you would lose out on: 64-bit support for the 64-bit versions of Windows and Linux, better overclocking. Plus I hate Dell cases. If you want to save money you can get a cheaper video card and your price would then be closer to the Dell box.
If you are a real hardcore computer person you will build it yourself, even if it costs more.

 

[acorcoran]

Specs for the aforementioned Dell, it is a bit messy, but I am sure you can find the necessary components without much difficulty.

Dimension 8400 Pentium® 4 Processor 540 with HT Technology (3.20GHz, 800 FSB)
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXPMemory FREE UPGRADE! 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x512M) 1GB4P
Keyboard Dell Quietkey® Keyboard QK
Monitor FREE UPGRADE! New 17 in E173FP Flat Panel Display E173FPP
Video Card 256MB PCI Express? x16 Nvidia® GeForce 6800 GTO Graphics Card
Hard Drive 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/ Native Command Queuing 160S
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD
Mouse Dell 2-button scroll mouse SM
Network Interface Integrated Gigabit Ethernet IN
Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX
Document Management Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 AAREAD
CD ROM/DVD ROM Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability DV16DVR
Sound Card Sound Blaster® Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HD? Audio SB1024
Speakers No Speaker Option N
Productivity Software WordPerfect®, Powerful Word Processing CORELM
Security Software No Security Subscription NS2
Digital Music Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software MMBASE
Digital Photography Paint Shop? Pro® Studio trial, Photo Album? Starter Edition DPS
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr Technical Support S222OS
Dial-up Internet Access 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS
Tracer Skus Award Winning Service and Support D84SAP
Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience?

ACCESSORIES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Save $200 with mail-in rebate. Price shown before rebate Qty 1
Unit Price $0.00
TOTAL: $1,531.80

So 1,331.80

 

[razor2025]

The DIY box you've speced will beat the Dell in performance and future upgradibility.
At 400mhz FSB, the Crucial DDR will beat the OEM (generic) DDR2
BFG 6800GT will beat the Dell's GTO, because GTO will most likely have pipeline disabled or clocked lower.
Also, the Dell won't have the ability to SLI the video cards as there are no SLI-capable chipset for Intel yet.
For $200 in extra cost, the DIY solution isn't bad at all.
It also looks like you're going to be overclocking somewhat from the cooling setup you've setup. Dell won't be able to do much on the overclocking, as they're not designed for that at all. If you're not going to overclock, you might want to pick a cheaper RAM (Corsair Value RAM goes for around $130) and limit your budget on cooling solution.

Here's the kicker. The 17" LCD. It'll cost you a good $200 for even a half-decent 17" LCD anywhere. So if you're to add a LCD to your DIY box, the price delta is $400. If the free LCD doesn't matter to you, then it's not much of a factor.

 

[mechBgon]

Why do people never look at any pre-built except for Dell? There's companies offering A64's in a pre-built. Take those blinders off

 

[acorcoran]

I think the main reason is because I have dealt with Dell in the past. I have not tried any of the prebuilt AMD solutions. I felt that a big benefit to the DIY method is also the satisfaction of doing it yourself =) That is a non-material cost that is not incorporated =).

 

[mjolnir2k]

I am by no means one of the true experts on this board, but maybe that makes my perspective more like yours. Before I found Anandtech I would NEVER have considered a DIY as an option. I was a DELL guy all the way. It was a case of not knowing what you don't know.

I have built 3 DIY computers (got the bug after I found this site) and have had varying results.

I built my first rig (now in storage) for about $400 from parts I got in the "Buy/ Sell" forum here which was a great deal. HOWEVER I then realized I needed thigs like a Monitor, Keyboard, mouse, speakers, and oh yeah an OPERATING SYSTEM..cha-ching..chalk up another $300. So now I was into it for $700, but had a computer that was fairly cutting edge. A similar setup from DELL would have run me around $1,300 so I was still way ahead of the game.

Computer #2 (my current rig) I have built up again from "Buy/ Sell" and NewEgg and went a bit more high end. I already had a Monitor, keyboard, mouse and $$Operating System$$ so I had a few more $$'s to spend. I was also looking to try and future proof a bit (which is just not possible in the computer world). I think I spent a total of about $700 on the new stuff. I have since swapped a few parts (video card, Memory etc..) but have basically left it alone for about a year and it's still running like a champ. Swapping parts is simple (thank you Lian Li, best purchase I have made) and I have yet to find a program or game that this rig cannot run flawlessly (CAD, D3, Half Life 2..no sweat).

Computer #3 is one I built for my parents..DO NOT DO THIS!!! I have since become 24/7/365 "customer support". NOT RECOMMENDED.

So after building these 3 computers I will tell you that there are a few truths I have learned about DIY:

1. There is NO such thing as "PLUG and PLAY"! Expect to run into compatability or driver issues at least once during your build.

2. Patience is a MUST. Don't rush it when building. Make sure everything is connected properly or you will end up frying something (been there, done that).

3. There is NO such thing as future proof. Don't get caught up in the latest and greatest. If you buy the items that were "top of the line" 6 months ago you will save a TON of $$ and get about the same performance as the cutting edge stuff. Recognize that a lot of the users here are bleeding edge type guys that will spend $500 to get another 10 FPS in DOOM 3 or a minimal improvement in some benchmarking utility. *Caveat* UNLESS there has been a major revision in hardware such as PCI to AGP, SDRAM to DDR ram or a major chipset revision.

4. You are on your own to solve the inevitable computer problems that will crop up from time to time. Without customer support you must diagnose and fix any issues that arise. Not a terrible thing if you are so inclined, but the truth is that your computer will eventually get the blue screen of death for one reason or another and then YOU have to figure out why and fix it. Just know this going in. Building the computer is really the easy part, being customer support is what will keep you coming back to Anandtech.

5. There is a great deal of satisfaction at finishing your build, figuring out and fixing any issues and firing up your rig for the first time. It's also nice to not be afraid of the "magic box" that these computers are and feeling free to swap at parts at your whim. I still laugh when I see BEST BUY charges like $50 to install a video card or memory...5 years ago I might have actually paid them to do it and now I can swap out a video card in about 2 minutes (same with HDD, Memory, CPU etc).

If you are interested in learning about computers and are willing to be your own customer support (with help from the Anand'ers here) then I say go with the DIY option. You will save $$ and get much better parts than a DELL or similar. If you want a "turn it on and forget it" computer, go with the DELL.

Hope that helps.

 

[aznbomber]

Umm.., this is a hard comparison to make. Because your custom computer and your dell seems to have different needs. For example, for your DIY computer, you chose a SLI motherboard. Were you ever planning on building a SLI machine? If you are then go with the DIY computer.

Another thing. Your DYI setup lacks a 17" LCD monitor, an operating system, mouse and keyboard, but it has a 470W power supply. I don't know if you even need a 470W power supply. That may be a bit excessive, i think a good quality 350W to 400W power supply would probably be enough for your machine, but i may be wrong.

You also included a PCI Fan card in your setup. Is that even necessary? haha, I think i may be a penny pincher, but i think that it is a waste since you are already getting a different fan and heatsink for the CPU and also getting a nicer power supply.

Just the 17" LCD will cost you $200 if you were looking for a bairgain no name one, but if you wanted something with a name attached to it you could be looking at $250 - $300. The O/S say if you get it OEM is another $80 something dollars. A cheap keyboard and mouse will cost you around $25. You do the math. In the end, it seems like the DIY machine will cost a lot more.

Again though, it really depends on what you need. Like the other person said. The video card could or could not make a difference. Did you want to over-clock the card? A stock 6800GTO will play most of your games perfectly fine if you are not an extreme gamer. I have a gaming machine running on a 6600GT and i love it.

Finally, in response to the 64-bit person. Longhorn isn't even expected until 2006. By that time, he could just get himself another computer.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: aznbomber
Finally, in response to the 64-bit person. Longhorn isn't even expected until 2006. By that time, he could just get himself another computer.

They are already closed beta-testing RC XP Pro x64 so a 64bit windows OS is probably only 6 months or so away.

 

[funggorgor]

buy Dell save you time and trouble
DIY save you money

 

[dickie1900]

As far as upgrades go, I picked up my first DIY early 2001. I'm still using parts off of it. If you think about it, the only thing you upgrade regualarly is your CPU, Mobo, RAM, and Videocard. If you can spread this out over a period of time so that maybe once a year you upgrade one or two of them instead. That way your not dropping $1500 every 3 years because the prepackaged system you bought from Dell is obsolete and you can't upgrade it. That's why you spend the money up front to pick up a good case, PSU, optical drives, etc. So you don't have to worry about it any time soon.

 

[fishmonger12]

i think you will be happier with a DYI. You will end up with better components. also, the price difference is mainly contributed to you not buying the best value .

now, if you plan on overclocking\\using the SLI setup later in life, some or all of these changes dont apply. However, you wouldn't be able to overclock with a dell, so i'm going to compare a DYI that would perform similarly to the dell.

go with stock cooling. shaves off ~50$
i would go to a non sli nforce 4 board. these go for 120-140$. shaves off ~70$.
i would get value ram. shaves off ~80-100$.
Get an antec case with PSU, shaves off ~80$.
get rid of PCI slot fan. shaves off ~20$
get a 6800 instead of a 6800GT. shaves off ~150$. The 6800GTO most definitely has some pipes disabled\\\lower clock speed.

there's ~450-600$ worth of savings. Get a monitor, and you're at 1,300$

just make sure you compare an equivalent DYI setup to the dell, not an obviously superior one. i'm not saying you should go with the above setup, just that you should compare the dell to an equivalent build it yourself

you could also consider going socket 754, which is a REALLY good value.

edit: 6800GTO has 100 mhz lower ram clock. core clock is the same. so it would be comparable to a normal 6800GT.

 

[ponyo]

That Dell is pretty expensive for what you get. I've seen similar Dell system for sale after coupon for around $1000 and that's including 19" LCD. Wait for the end of the quarter sale that's sure to come.

 

[arsbanned]

You guys are assuming his labor, and time required to deal with problems-if they crop up during and after the build-is worthless. Gotta factor that in.
That said, the Athlon 64 machine is going to perform better. Not by HUGE amounts, but better. It will also be louder (I have an 8400 and it's the quietest PC I've owned). The "free" monitor could also be a significant thing for some people. I have that unit and it's very nice. I got my entire setup for under 1,000. delivered to my door.

 

[acorcoran]

I do appreciate all of the feedback and the information provided is quite wonderful. As far as the labor time involvement, to me, that is part of the fun factor =). I think the biggest flaw in my argument/comparison of these two systems is that you all are correct; I am not comparing apples to apples when it comes to equipment. I appreciate all of the comments and feedback left in this thread. It is conversations like these that help me get back into the swing of things!

Aaron

 

[sfgtwsac]

I have to take issue with one aspect of this conversation. Regardless of whether you DIY or buy from Dell, you are always your first line of tech support. I've never thought to call Dell first after a BSOD crops up at my office. Indeed, I know that if I do call Dell, I'll be asked to take a number of elementary steps such as rebooting. In the end, Dell can only offer so much help on the software side before they recommend reinstalling. To Dell's credit, if you have a hardware problem, they are very good about getting replacement parts out quickly as opposed to the RMA horror stories you often find here on Anandtech.

One other piece of advice, and I apologize if you know this already, but Dell's tech support is not necessarily what it used to be if you buy your machine through the home user section of their website. They have outsourced much of this work overseas with very mixed results. Thus, if you are going to buy from Dell, try to buy it through their small business services if you can because the support services are signficantly better.

 

[Icepick]

If you build it yourself then you get a much cleaner build software-wise. I mean you won't get a hard drive loaded with all the spyware/shareware/AOL that you don't want.

A DIY build ensures quality components go into your system. You can customize your parts around certain outcomes like silence, overclocking, or gaming.

Everyone should go through a DIY build at least once. It will get you familiar with your system and make trouble shooting any problems that may arise much easier for you to trouble shoot. Plus you get the satisfaction of having built something yourself. Now is a great time to build because Athlon64 is better than P4 at this moment in history.

Dell's customer support isn't worth diddley since they outsourced it all to India. That's what will happen when you call them. You'll wait on hold forever then get someone on the line that you may or may not have trouble understanding. They'll walk you through a bunch of steps that you probably already thought of yourself and end up telling you to reboot, reinstall, or replace hardware - all of which, you could have done yourself.