Do animals have morals?

[tom3]

Do animals have a sense of right and wrong? (I mean animals other than human beings, if that was confusing. And please include in the discussion any type of animals as you like)

As a human being, I find in myself at least two threads:
What my nature tells me to do. Innate desires.
What I think I ought to do. Whether taught to me or not.

Since we are only humans, we cannot understand from within what goes on in an animal's decision making process, we can only observe externally. Then what evidence do we have to draw any speculation or conclusion?

I have a feeling that religion may get dragged into the discussion. That is not my intent. Let's try to keep a meaningful and valid discussion on the topic presented alone.

I appreciate a yes/no answer, but I hope to have some sort of discussion about it too. What reasons have you to support your view? Thanks

 

[KLin]

no they don't.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

no

 

[tom3]

Thanks for your input. If you have the time, can you please provide more insight than just a yes/no answer?

 

[brunswickite]

no

 

[n0cmonkey]

Yes, they do. It's part of what they are. It is right for the cat to kill the mouse. It is right for the cheeta to bring down the antelope (or whatever those things are). It is right for the male lion to keep the other males away and get it on with the bitches.

 

[nageov3t]

no soul, no morals.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

No, I don't think wild animals have morals. I think they are driven by what will perpetuate the species, and what will keep the individual animal alive and fed.

Animal friends of humans have a smattering of morals, it rubs off on them. That's why the dog looks sneaky grabbing stuff out of the garbage, and the cat knows it's not supposed to rip the carpet to shreds or pee in the laundry basket. They try not to let those morals interfere too much though

 

[wfbberzerker]

no.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Well, a dog is willing to hump your leg, so I'd say no.

- M4H

 

No, hence the reason why my dog licks his genitals while my family sits around watching tv.

 

[HappyPuppy]

No, because they don't need morals. They act instinctually.

 

[rh71]

no, it is taught at a young age to us... they don't have that luxury

 

[aplefka]

I think that domestic animals may form some sense of right and wrong, but wild animals don't. And I think animals have souls too. I dunno though, it's hard to say.

 

[SirPsycho]

I doubt that most do, but I think it's certainly possible that some of the more intelligent animals might. Primates, dolphins, parrots, crows, ravens, elephants... I think that you'd have to understand cause-and-effect relationships and have a sufficiently long memory to be able to remember them.

I'll tell you one thing, though... my Grey parrot sure doesn't. She's pure evil. :evil: Seriously though, she definitely knows when our Amazon parrot is doing something that we would scold him for, and often proceeds to let him know about her displeasure on our behalf ("Fred! No! You're being a bad bird! C'mere!"). Whether that's simple mimicry is hard to say, but she also seems to know when she's doing something wrong, and she'll only do it if she thinks we're not paying attention or can't see her do it.

I guess it depends on what you consider "morals". I think that knowing that you'll be punished for doing something and deciding not to do it as a result doesn't really qualify. Not doing something even if you know you'll never be caught and still not doing it anyway out of a sense of guilt, or feeling remorseful about something you've done but were never caught, is more my idea of a sense of morals.

 

[lokiju]

Well when I had a cat, I'd catch it in the act of clawing something it knew not to, and as soon as it saw me it would look at me like "oh sh!t" and stop right away.

So it would seem that animals are able to tell the difference between right and wrong.

 

[FoBoT]

no
that is why they are made of MEAT

 

[oogabooga]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
no
that is why they are made of MEAT

yup

What's interesting though is that hte vast majority of animals live in nuclear families, and also don't attack their own.. perhaps some signs of morals.. enough to at least not to risk the meat supply.


*edit* : Stupid typo.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: oogabooga

Originally posted by: FoBoT
no
that is why they are made of MEAT

yup

What's interesting though is that hte vast majority of animals live in nuclear families, and also don't attack their own.. perhaps some signs of morals.. enough to at least not to risk the meat supply.


*edit* : Stupid typo.

er, i thought male lions killed all the baby males when they took over a pride of females to ensure that future males were from their blood line

i am sure it varies from species to species

 

[OulOat]

Explain this. I was watching the discovery channel the other day. It had a show on killer whales and their beaching methods for hunting seals and pengiums. Low and behold, baby seals getting pwned by a 5 ton whale, and on land too! However, it had a rather puzzling segment. It showed a baby seal getting pulled out to sea by the retreating tide. Now, the killer whales already had their fill of seal meat, so it was expected that they would ignore it. However, one of the whales approached the seal, and with a gentle hold, returned the baby seal back to the beach unharmed. Now, is that a glimmer of morals?

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: OulOat
Explain this. I was watching the discovery channel the other day. It had a show on killer whales and their beaching methods for hunting seals and pengiums. Low and behold, baby seals getting pwned by a 5 ton whale, and on land too! However, it had a rather puzzling segment. It showed a baby seal getting pulled out to sea by the retreating tide. Now, the killer whales already had their fill of seal meat, so it was expected that they would ignore it. However, one of the whales approached the seal, and with a gentle hold, returned the baby seal back to the beach unharmed. Now, is that a glimmer of morals?

nope, it's saving a snack until later.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: OulOat
Explain this. I was watching the discovery channel the other day. It had a show on killer whales and their beaching methods for hunting seals and pengiums. Low and behold, baby seals getting pwned by a 5 ton whale, and on land too! However, it had a rather puzzling segment. It showed a baby seal getting pulled out to sea by the retreating tide. Now, the killer whales already had their fill of seal meat, so it was expected that they would ignore it. However, one of the whales approached the seal, and with a gentle hold, returned the baby seal back to the beach unharmed. Now, is that a glimmer of morals?

nope, it's saving a snack until later.

:thumbsup:

a sign of intelligence, the whale knew that if the seal grows, next time the whale wants a bite, he'll get more

 

[aircooled]

yes

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: aplefka
I think that domestic animals may form some sense of right and wrong, but wild animals don't. And I think animals have souls too. I dunno though, it's hard to say.

What is REALLY interesting is the following thought: is the sense of right and wrong innate or only due to domestication? You can expect your family dog knows not to steal the food thats on the table only because you've trained it by positive or negative reinforcement, but not a wolf who got into your house.

Makes you wonder whats the basis for YOUR morals.

 

[Wag]

Me and my cat were discussing religion the other day, when he told me he was an athiest.

So I'd say, no.