Do bandwidth caps on home internet use really benefit average users?

[Nuwave]

bandwidth caps will stifle innovation.

Bandwidth is not a finite resource like electricity or gas. It doesn't make any sense to bill it that way.

There should be no caps, you pay for how fast you download. I have 512Kbps 1Mbps 5Mbps 15Mbps 25Mbps 50Mbps and 100Mbps, increasing in price (obviously), available to me. I can choose to pay more for faster speed.

It is a total gouge by telecom companies to do usage based billing. It is wrong to label users that use the internet heavily as abusers. They are not, Netflix is an amazing thing. This shouldn't be stopped, it should be innovated upon.

 

[techs]

bandwidth caps will stifle innovation.

Bandwidth is not a finite resource like electricity or gas. It doesn't make any sense to bill it that way.

There should be no caps, you pay for how fast you download. I have 512Kbps 1Mbps 5Mbps 15Mbps 25Mbps 50Mbps and 100Mbps, increasing in price (obviously), available to me. I can choose to pay more for faster speed.

It is a total gouge by telecom companies to do usage based billing. It is wrong to label users that use the internet heavily as abusers. They are not, Netflix is an amazing thing. This shouldn't be stopped, it should be innovated upon.

Most people in this thread have not addressed my point.

You however, have brought up another issue directly related to mine.

If the Comcast network is operating at far below capacity for most of the day, then why deny people the opportunity to use it as much as they want during these low usage hours? Its not like electricity which costs money to produce. Comcast is essentially letting a large amount of their bandwidth go unused for large portions of the day.

In fact, if people are limited in their monthly bandwidth, they will be more likely to use the internet during peak hours. Programs like instant messaging and Skype require two people to be online at the same time. Rather than "waste" their bandwidth during times their friends are not online, they will be sure to be on the internet during peak times.

Now if Comcast really cared about their customers, and are not just a lying piece of shit company, they would allow unlimited bandwidth from say 11pm to 6am everyday. This would encourage people to spread out their usage and actually increase speeds during peak hours.

 

[Patranus]

That's incorrect. Many ISP's cap at a certain amount and don't give you an option to buy more...

I am ok in that reguard, as I have ATT Uverse, and they are simply going to charge $10 more for each 50GB additional past 250.

You just answered your own question.

When you go over 250GB you buy more 50GB more for $10.

That is the option.

 

[PsiStar]

I don't understand the difficulty with this. You use more, you pay more. Currently content providers are mostly separate from the means to get the content.

Of course if you really want to make a difference, stop down loading/streaming movies or games & go back to buying the discs off Amazon. Once it is realized that the ISPs are dulling the glitter, then all those providers ... youtube, netflix, steam ... will put pressure on or just buy the ISPs.

Meanwhile if you want additional content to what you did not have a couple of years ago, expect to pay. If you hate, take a pill ... or lower the dosage of what you are taking.

 

[0roo0roo]

I don't understand the difficulty with this. You use more, you pay more. Currently content providers are mostly separate from the means to get the content.

Of course if you really want to make a difference, stop down loading/streaming movies or games & go back to buying the discs off Amazon. Once it is realized that the ISPs are dulling the glitter, then all those providers ... youtube, netflix, steam ... will put pressure on or just buy the ISPs.

Meanwhile if you want additional content to what you did not have a couple of years ago, expect to pay. If you hate, take a pill ... or lower the dosage of what you are taking.

Whats so hard to understand, you already pay based on the broadband speed tier package. If they can't give you real unlimited at that speed their they shouldn't be selling it.

When other countries have broadband speeds that are far far higher us carriers have no justification for what they are doing other than greed. It is in their financial interests to slow usage and avoid investing in their system, and that is the problem. Because these are natural monoplies the normal ideas of competition do not apply, they can be abused, and they are doing so now. It would be like if the water company raised the price per gallon to 50 cents, and just told you to take a hike if you didn't like it, you can buy bottled water or build your own water company and infrastructure if you wanted to after all right? Other countries like japan have caps of 30GB...a day..upload. No cap download, and that was from a couple years ago. Now if the us companies were providing cutting edge service like that and they were under real strain they'd have a point in capping real hogs, but when they are capping mediocre service when they are reaping huge profits, that is just abusive.
http://www.homotron.net/2008/06/japanese_bandwidth_caps_totall.html

 

[Patranus]

Whats so hard to understand, you already pay based on the broadband speed tier package. If they can't give you real unlimited at that speed their they shouldn't be selling it.

You are not paying based on the speed tier package, you are paying for that speed tier package UP TO a certain amount of throughput.

 

[spidey07]

Whats so hard to understand, you already pay based on the broadband speed tier package. If they can't give you real unlimited at that speed their they shouldn't be selling it.

When other countries have broadband speeds that are far far higher us carriers have no justification for what they are doing other than greed. It is in their financial interests to slow usage and avoid investing in their system, and that is the problem. Because these are natural monoplies the normal ideas of competition do not apply, they can be abused, and they are doing so now. It would be like if the water company raised the price per gallon to 50 cents, and just told you to take a hike if you didn't like it, you can buy bottled water or build your own water company and infrastructure if you wanted to after all right? Other countries like japan have caps of 30GB...a day..upload. No cap download, and that was from a couple years ago. Now if the us companies were providing cutting edge service like that and they were under real strain they'd have a point in capping real hogs, but when they are capping mediocre service when they are reaping huge profits, that is just abusive.
http://www.homotron.net/2008/06/japanese_bandwidth_caps_totall.html

Not this shit again. This is why this board cannot understand how the Internet works. You guys simply don't understand how it works. You come up with useless analogies that just don't and cannot apply. High speed, with many subscribers, with high density = cheap. The converse is also true.

If you have a problem with it or think you can do better, then by all means run your own ISP. Until then you're clueless on what is required.

I swear, you guys are like the old man on the block shaking his fist at the power company.

 

[PsiStar]

Whats so hard to understand, you already pay based on the broadband speed tier package. If they can't give you real unlimited at that speed their they shouldn't be selling it.

"They" own the equipment. Like most marketing, throw the hook out and if a many bite up the cost because the initial offering certainly would not handle any serious capacity. If you get serious demand then the system needs to be upgraded and where is that $$ coming from.

No. You pay for what you and everyone else that jumps on that bandwagon decides that they just have to have. This is the epitome of spur of the moment buying. "Oh! Wait! This will cost more and more if I still *want*?" You are so blond.

 

[techs]

Not this shit again. This is why this board cannot understand how the Internet works. You guys simply don't understand how it works. You come up with useless analogies that just don't and cannot apply. High speed, with many subscribers, with high density = cheap. The converse is also true.

If you have a problem with it or think you can do better, then by all means run your own ISP. Until then you're clueless on what is required.

I swear, you guys are like the old man on the block shaking his fist at the power company.

You just refuse to face the facts. Comcast is not instituting caps to provide faster service for the average user like they claim. This is not only complete BULLSHIT, but it makes absolutely no sense since bandwidth caps don't provide that.

If they really wanted the average user to get faster average speeds they would either build up their network to accomodate peak usage, or manage their network in a way that encourages people to use the internet during off peak hours. Bandwidth caps do NOT provide faster average speeds.

What cell phone companies did for years, until they expanded their networks, was to load balance by offering unlimited service service on nights and weekends. Of course, once they added enough capacity they offered unlimited cell phone usage.

This is all about cable companies wanting to use their monoplies to stop innovation.

 

[RedCOMET]

Has the following ever been addressed in bandwidth related threads....

Why is it ok for a residential customer to upgrade their network connection to an entry level "business" class connection for a no capped connection, but a bussiness cannot use a residential connection to save on cost since they don't require all the features of a business class connection?

 

[spidey07]

You just refuse to face the facts. Comcast is not instituting caps to provide faster service for the average user like they claim. This is not only complete BULLSHIT, but it makes absolutely no sense since bandwidth caps don't provide that.

If they really wanted the average user to get faster average speeds they would either build up their network to accomodate peak usage, or manage their network in a way that encourages people to use the internet during off peak hours. Bandwidth caps do NOT provide faster average speeds.

What cell phone companies did for years, until they expanded their networks, was to load balance by offering unlimited service service on nights and weekends. Of course, once they added enough capacity they offered unlimited cell phone usage.

This is all about cable companies wanting to use their monoplies to stop innovation.

Obviously you have it all figured out. Go get the funding and start your own ISP. The business model is well understood, so go right ahead.

 

[spidey07]

Has the following ever been addressed in bandwidth related threads....

Why is it ok for a residential customer to upgrade their network connection to an entry level "business" class connection for a no capped connection, but a bussiness cannot use a residential connection to save on cost since they don't require all the features of a business class connection?

A business is free to use a consumer level service and it's associated incredible low cost. In fact many people that don't understand how this shit works chose to do so. One incident of loss of service will soon get the dumbfuck that suggested such a dumbass idea fired.

There are contractual agreements with business level service that residential service doesn't have. That's why your consumer/residential service is so cheap. I am sick and tired of explaining this shit.

You agreed to the contract for you super cheap broadband, don't be surprised when you get what you signed up for.

 

[techs]

Obviously you have it all figured out. Go get the funding and start your own ISP. The business model is well understood, so go right ahead.

Even freakin Verizon doesn't have the cash to wire up all the areas they want to. The cable companies, HAVE BY DEFINITION a MONOPLY. The bar to entry is set so high that effective competion is not possible.

So, STFU about the free market. There is no free market in internet service. You have the cable companies who financed their infrastructure thru a government granted monoply. Now it is economically unfeasible for other companies to get into the market, which is effectively LESS due to the fact of their being two companies, PLUS the lack of government sponsored guaranteed exclusivity that the cable companies had.

Which is why the cable companies are sticking it up the ass of consumers.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You just answered your own question.

When you go over 250GB you buy more 50GB more for $10.

That is the option.

R-E-A-D

That's HIS option, it's not a blanket statement applying to all ISP's. For example, Comcast does not have the option to buy extra GB's after you hit the cap.

 

[invidia]

My service has no caps. My highest was 2.5TB back in Dec. I usually average 300-400gb.

 

[0roo0roo]

You are not paying based on the speed tier package, you are paying for that speed tier package UP TO a certain amount of throughput.

And they should deliver up to that amount as best they can rather than slap some stupid cap on it.

Not this shit again. This is why this board cannot understand how the Internet works. You guys simply don't understand how it works. You come up with useless analogies that just don't and cannot apply. High speed, with many subscribers, with high density = cheap. The converse is also true.

If you have a problem with it or think you can do better, then by all means run your own ISP. Until then you're clueless on what is required.

I swear, you guys are like the old man on the block shaking his fist at the power company.

Yes how about you run your own water company, it isn't going to happen. As I said, it is a natural monopoly their profits are fat and their service is mediocre, so there is no justification for a cap. There is no way they can scream they are under strain while putting out world beating service, it is entirely the other way around. Further more these companies now have conflicts of interest as they are media distribution companies as well these days.

You want to talk about shaking your fist? You are like the guy shaking his fist shouting to let big monopolies abuse their customers more....and why? for what? You don't even get a cut.... at least a self interested greedy stooge knows what hes doing it for...

 

[Bignate603]

I think AT&T's option is ok with the option to buy more data is reasonable, but comcast's outright cap is not.

 

[spidey07]

Even freakin Verizon doesn't have the cash to wire up all the areas they want to. The cable companies, HAVE BY DEFINITION a MONOPLY. The bar to entry is set so high that effective competion is not possible.

So, STFU about the free market. There is no free market in internet service. You have the cable companies who financed their infrastructure thru a government granted monoply. Now it is economically unfeasible for other companies to get into the market, which is effectively LESS due to the fact of their being two companies, PLUS the lack of government sponsored guaranteed exclusivity that the cable companies had.

Which is why the cable companies are sticking it up the ass of consumers.

You're clueless. I can bid out Internet or data services anywhere and have providers begging for it.

 

[RedCOMET]

A business is free to use a consumer level service and it's associated incredible low cost. In fact many people that don't understand how this shit works chose to do so. One incident of loss of service will soon get the dumbfuck that suggested such a dumbass idea fired.

There are contractual agreements with business level service that residential service doesn't have. That's why your consumer/residential service is so cheap. I am sick and tired of explaining this shit.

You agreed to the contract for you super cheap broadband, don't be surprised when you get what you signed up for.

Sounds like service providers will sell you what ever level of service you want regardless if you are a residential or commercial property.

From browsing similar threads like this, there are some users that suggest residential users get "business class" connections for their homes if they require more bandwidth, which ISPs' don't have a problem selling to residential properties. I thought it was against ISP policy to sell residential grade connections to business entities.

 

[Imdmn04]

The backend infrastructure cost money, there are only so many 10Gbps and 100Gbps pipes across the country/world.

If users is always downloading 20Mbps maxed out on torrents constantly, Comcast wouldn't have enough backhaul bandwidth to serve all the customers with the existing infrastructure. That means upgrading the infrastructure, which means raising prices on the front end for ALL customers.

 

[sourceninja]

The backend infrastructure cost money, there are only so many 10Gbps and 100Gbps pipes across the country/world.

If users is always downloading 20Mbps maxed out on torrents constantly, Comcast wouldn't have enough backhaul bandwidth to serve all the customers with the existing infrastructure. That means upgrading the infrastructure, which means raising prices on the front end for ALL customers.

I'm ok with them just not selling 20Mbps pipes then.

I see it like this. We have 5 possible 'speeds' we can buy. We need a lot of stuff downloaded (databases from work, etc) so we pick the 20Mbps pipe.

The ISP is like "OH, we didn't really think you were going to use that.", then punish us for using what we asked for.

My solution, give everyone the top speed possible, then charge per gig. Some months when work is slow I only use my connection for browsing the web and email. Other months i might need to download hundreds of gigs. So I am punished because once in a while (maybe 2 to three times a year) I'm actually going to use that which I pay for.

If we didn't need to download hundreds of gigs now and then we would simply go with the cheaper and 'slower' plan. (honestly, I don't need 20mbps to read anandtech)

 

[techs]

The backend infrastructure cost money, there are only so many 10Gbps and 100Gbps pipes across the country/world.

If users is always downloading 20Mbps maxed out on torrents constantly, Comcast wouldn't have enough backhaul bandwidth to serve all the customers with the existing infrastructure. That means upgrading the infrastructure, which means raising prices on the front end for ALL customers.

Yet, Comcast does have he infrastructure already in place to support many users downloading 24/7 EXCEPT during peak hours of usage. Tens of millions of customers use no internet between 11pm-7am. The problem is the number of users online during peak hours. Bandwidth caps do almost nothing to stop or limit those people during peak hours. So, bandwidth caps don't give the average user greater speeds. All it does is keep high users from utilizing bandwidth that is NOT in short supply during non peak hours.

 

[Anubis]

honestly the gov needs to just take the internet over, treat it like phone service was before cell phones

Gov owns the backbone, ISPs simply provide service.

back in the day i could get long distance service from anyone i wanted, i simple called them and BAM it fucking worked. MCI, Sprint, ATT,....

internet should be no different. the fact that in 2011 im limited to 1 high speed internet provider is wrong, hell even in more populated areas you are lucky if you have 2


also that 4-6gb per month average is funny, i used 8 GB last week on a single day updating my Windows 7 comps to SP1

 

[DaWhim]

i have gone through 100gb in 1 weekend. come on guys, u think those 1080p hd movies are small? they are like at least 8gb a piece! heck, i am not even talking about getting the hd image which is like 40-50gb a piece!

 

[Juddog]

The problem as mentioned above is streaming services like Netflix will suffer. My wife and I don't have cable TV, but we do have cable internet, and watch Netflix online because it's a heck of a lot easier than torrenting a movie (which also involves legal risk, so I'm hesitant to do it unless it's not licensed in the US), or even going to the local video store to rent. I pay $65 for the biggest pipeline available and I would feel cheated if suddenly there was a cap on my service.

The cable companies make boatloads of money off of selling their internet service, this new move is nothing more than a money grab.