Do certs really help?

[Danimal1209]

I'm just about done with my undergraduate education (8 weeks left) at DePaul University's College of Computing with a concentration in Information Assurance and Security Engineering.

We do a lot of secure network architecture design encompassing routers, switches, firewalls (hardware and software), servers, etc.

I know how to implement the following on cisco devices: BGP, OSPF, EIGRP, ACL's, CBAC, ZPF, AAA, and the like. I have an understanding of MPLS but have not implemented it in the lab. I can also do some AD administration and DNS.

In the next few weeks I will be distributing my resume to potential employers.

I currently have no certifications, though I believe I have enough knowledge to easily pass the CCNA, and maybe pass the CCNP with a few weeks of studying and practice.

Will having these certifications really offer me a benefit in my job search? Since I have no experience in the field yet, I imagine they can serve as an indicator of competency level. Would this be accurate?

What are your thoughts on certifications in the industry?

 

[drebo]

Connections >>>>> Experience > High-level Certs (CCIE) > Degrees > Certs

A degree or cert may get you an interview, but it will not get you a job.

Also, don't put MPLS, BGP, or any other specific protocol on your resume unless you have real, production experience with its design and operation. Labbing eBGP between two routers is an entirely different beast than running eBGP in an Internet-edge production environment. Same goes for OSPF and virtually all other protocols. Also, connecting an end user to a provider's managed MPLS router does not mean you have experience with MPLS.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Getting a CCNA will help you find that first entry-level job. Even more so if you really think you can pass the CCNP exams.

Agreed with Drebo - be careful what you put on your resume. Its one thing to say during an interview that you have lab experience with those protocols, but do NOT say that you're a BGP engineer unless you want to lose all credibility before you even get in the door. I would recommend trying to come up with some kind of nice-sounding blanket statement that says you have a bunch of theory background and are eager to put it into production.

 

[JackMDS]

I currently have no certifications, though I believe I have enough knowledge to easily pass the CCNA, and maybe pass the CCNP with a few weeks of studying and practice.

Given the above.

May be you care to explain why you should Not do it?

 

[Enigma102083]

If you can pass a CCNA/CCNP easily, there's really no reason why you shouldn't do it. It's certainly not going to be detrimental to your resume.

 

[Udgnim]

they don't hurt

being able to put down relevant work experience with an organization's production network on your resume helps a whole lot more though

 

[spidey07]

They help, for many positions they are required or highly recommended. And as said be careful about putting things on your resume if it's just lab work. I will grill the hell out of candidates and what they put on their resume for at least an hour. It only takes about 5-10 minutes to figure out if the guy knows what they are doing or not.

If you say you know OSPF and EIGRP I will ask you what must you do to redistribute between the two and how do you recover a broken backbone area and describe the different LSAs along with "OSPF neighbors are stuck in a 2-way/exchange state and never form, what's the likely cause"?

 

[mammador]

I would think for many IT departments, especially in firms running LANs and a WAN, a CCNA or CCNP is required.

That said, an IT degree is sufficient for an entry-level position also.

 

[Cooky]

CCNA & CCNP will definitely help you get an interview, especially if you don't yet have much real world experience.

When I help w/ our technical interviews, any resume w/ Cisco certs definitely caught my attention.

Having CCNA/CCNP certs indicates you have basic understanding of how things should work.
Like Spidey said, if you put down protocols on the resume, expect to explain exactly how they work, and how to troubleshoot.
You can also be up front w/ the interviewer that even though you haven't much experience, you're eager to pick up new things, and are a quick learner, etc.

When I interviewed for my job years ago, my boss told me he didn't expect me to know everything, but expected me to know how to look things up.

 

[Harrod]

I think that they help, however I think that it's possible to have too many of them and not be taken seriously. I work with someone who did the ccna, ccnp, ccie written, ccda, ccdp, and ccna voice one after another. IMO this just looks bad, especially if there isn't experience to back it up.

 

[Danimal1209]

What would be an obtainable position with almost no real world experience?

All I have done is work for a small IT firm where I was supposed to go on network calls, but ended up just doing research on pricing.

 

[spidey07]

What would be an obtainable position with almost no real world experience?

All I have done is work for a small IT firm where I was supposed to go on network calls, but ended up just doing research on pricing.

Somebody willing to train you in an entry level position based on your attitude, knowledge and possibly certifications. Certs do show a willingness on your part to learn and work on your career as opposed to "I show up, gimme paycheck."

 

[arsta]

I think they work as an addition to formal education, and are below experience. Though if you have any friends/connections, they may just give you the little advantage of showing that you actually know the stuff and that they can give you a position that you won't screw up.

Would like to get some myself, but in the end I'm not planning to stay on the technical side of IT.

 

[ScottMac]

IMO, they definitely will help, especially with the larger organizations. Many of the HR folks use the certs as a filter (check box: CCxA, CCxP ...) no check mark, no interview.

The degree is important; larger organizations require one, even if you're up to your ears in pertinent experience ... in some cases, any degree, even liberal arts, counts and beats a 20 year networking vet for the job (HR folks tend to be ignorant about training ... they just filter on the requirements presented by the hiring manager)

Certs are also good as a demonstration of a specific level of understanding and practical ability (Cisco certs are real ass-crunchers these days). They are not the end-all, be-all, and there are still swarms of "paper" engineers of all levels ... hence the heavy focus on the "technical interview" where the senor engineers grill you on the things that they have in their network (specific protocols, troubleshooting, philosophies) and decide if you understand well enough to learn what you need to know to keep their network humming along, that you have a solid foundation on which you can build an understanding of their system and how and why they do things the way they do.

What you probably didn't get in school, and probably won't get in Cert learning, is that A+B=C, if A and / or B may or may not be the same vendor, same era of technology, may or may not connect directly ... but might have a component X, Y, and / or Z in-between to make them compatible .... there can be significant cobbling to get a specific networking instance to operate. Yes, it's networking by the skin of your ass; and sometimes you just have to do it, even if it's just a temporary" solution (i.e, it'll get fixed sometime before you retire or the guy before you retired and left it for you to head-scratch).

In most Labs, the equipment is all one vendor; in most enterprises / organizations, it is a collection of various vendors. Either because they "tuned" their network with "the best" of every class of devices, or multiple designers / implementers each with their preferred hardware / software, or sometimes just cheaping-out and buying consumer stuff "to get by Temporarily."

The point of the above, is to suggest the following: take a little time to look at more than Cisco stuff. Given the chance, play with vendor-diverse equipment and make it work together. If you can do that, make sure you mention it on the interview.

The other point is that their network "is what it is" and if you see something "unusual" (or they create a scenario that's unusual, according to your previous training) feel free to point it out, but do it without being judgmental like "What idiot decided to do that?" or explain to them that "the book says it should be done like this ...". They might give you something "unusual" on the whiteboard and ask you that question ("Why would you suppose someone would do it like this") Networks are rarely done from scratch (like many Lab build-ups) and "evolve," all it takes is one technology to pop up (like VoIP) to force a major overhaul of the network. What do you know about "Cloud?" Study up, it's all the rage in networking these days ...

SO yeah, Certs help, more is usually better than less. What you have now is just the beginning ... the network technologies change, fork, grow, suddenly die, and some thing never change .... but you'll need to study the rest of your career to stay current. Since you're new & fresh out of college, keep up the momentum and keep studying (and express that in your interview, if it applies).

Good Luck, sorry for the ramble, the morning meds haven't kicked in yet .... ;-)

 

[Comblues]

Ever threw gasoline on a small fire?

That's the effect on your career and job options with Certifications.

It's the STEROIDS of the IT World.

Comblues