Do Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God?

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Asking the question presupposes the existence of any god. Without the existence of a deity, the various deific figures expressed in monotheistic holy books are variants of the same fictional character. It would be most accurate to say that each is derivative of another, the way a character in a novel may be derivative of characters in other novels the author read.
 

Chipfiref

Member
Aug 1, 2013
102
0
71
I'd say the question of which god you worship isn't as important as how you treat other people.

You treat other people a certain way because of what you believe - you may be agnostic, and still treat people as you would have them treat you.

Many would argue that when you treat others as you would have them treat you, you are acknowledging that there are others in the universe that are like you and subject to a higher authority, and that there is good and evil.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,710
6,198
126
I would argue that, since god is a figment of some people's imagination, that every individual worships a different god. No two people worship the same god, they all pick and choose what they want to believe god is.

Yes, I believe you are right, that you have presented one picture as we understand can be had from the story of the Blind men and the Elephant. But all these different interpretations exist including your own, I think, because there is something objective called an elephant for the folk who have eyes to see.

The world is filled with skeptics and believers and a few who for whom duality has collapsed and all that exists is being.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Yes, I believe you are right, that you have presented one picture as we understand can be had from the story of the Blind men and the Elephant. But all these different interpretations exist including your own, I think, because there is something objective called an elephant for the folk who have eyes to see.

The world is filled with skeptics and believers and a few who for whom duality has collapsed and all that exists is being.

Funny, I was thinking of the elephant as I wrote that. However nobody has actually seen the elephant people call god, so there's no way to know if the trunk, tail, ear, and leg are actually the same deity or not.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
In the spirit world there are several big egregores that are the combination of belief power from various abrahamic worshippers. The egregores themselves aren't really true beings in the normal sense of the word, but rather "thought collective" masses of energy created from people pointing their minds to in the same direction.

In the end it's no different than piling big mounds of sand together in various spots in the desert and worshipping them as magic beings; it's a falsehood and a waste of energy. Religion is meant to prop humans up and then have the props removed, similar to training wheels on a bicycle that get taken off when people finally figure out how to ride the bike, only a lot of people think that using the training wheels are the main purpose of riding the bicycle instead of getting out there and exploring the spirit world for themselves.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,710
6,198
126
Funny, I was thinking of the elephant as I wrote that. However nobody has actually seen the elephant people call god, so there's no way to know if the trunk, tail, ear, and leg are actually the same deity or not.

My point is that your statement is exactly what one would say if what you have seen are the many opinions the blind have of what an elephant is. The logical conclusion is that people see what they want to see or interpret. But the whole point of this elephant analogy relies on the implication there is a real elephant.

Similarly, we know that Pastafarians ridicule the notion of God by implying that God is a noodle, but this notion has never sprung up independently over thousands of years as a transcendental experience that some people attain because there's no intuitive sense to it. It has no appeal or unconscious attraction to the mind other than satire.

The idea of God or of a transcendental state symbolized by that idea has and always will survive, I suggest, because such a thing like an elephant is real. People will always have the experience of waking up from a dream, of discovering a truth that is deeper, truer, and more profound than any other, one that in my opinion involves the collapse of duality and the death of the ego followed by the experience of the oneness of love. And I believe, also, as you might easily guess, that it is our self hate, the feeling that we don't deserve such a thing that creates the motivation to believe that it can't exist. We were separated from oneness of God by having been made to feel we are undeserving so we deny to avoid that feeling. But for some the will to know or the pain is too great to allow the person to hide.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
My point is that your statement is exactly what one would say if what you have seen are the many opinions the blind have of what an elephant is. The logical conclusion is that people see what they want to see or interpret. But the whole point of this elephant analogy relies on the implication there is a real elephant.

Similarly, we know that Pastafarians ridicule the notion of God by implying that God is a noodle, but this notion has never sprung up independently over thousands of years as a transcendental experience that some people attain because there's no intuitive sense to it. It has no appeal or unconscious attraction to the mind other than satire.

The idea of God or of a transcendental state symbolized by that idea has and always will survive, I suggest, because such a thing like an elephant is real. People will always have the experience of waking up from a dream, of discovering a truth that is deeper, truer, and more profound than any other, one that in my opinion involves the collapse of duality and the death of the ego followed by the experience of the oneness of love. And I believe, also, as you might easily guess, that it is our self hate, the feeling that we don't deserve such a thing that creates the motivation to believe that it can't exist. We were separated from oneness of God by having been made to feel we are undeserving so we deny to avoid that feeling. But for some the will to know or the pain is too great to allow the person to hide.

The blind men don't know they're touching an elephant, however the observer does, which is how we know it's an elephant to begin with.

We're dealing with a world full of blind men, none of whom have seen god in his entirety, therefore as far as we all know each one is in fact touching his own deity, and not a part of a greater deity.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
You treat other people a certain way because of what you believe - you may be agnostic, and still treat people as you would have them treat you.

Many would argue that when you treat others as you would have them treat you, you are acknowledging that there are others in the universe that are like you and subject to a higher authority, and that there is good and evil.

That part does not follow.

I'm an agnostic and I do treat others kindly, but not because I think the FSM will scourge me with His Noodly Appendages if I don't.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Another question related to the OP - how they share the common practice of worshipping money.
 
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thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
That part does not follow.

I'm an agnostic and I do treat others kindly, but not because I think the FSM will scourge me with His Noodly Appendages if I don't.

Yeah, I do good things and treat others well because of evolution. As a species we've evolved to continue the functioning of a society. We're a social animal and we function best as a pack. The society we've developed is just a natural progression of that pack. Protecting the frail and weak members of a pack is what all pack animals do. Being good to eachother benefits the species as a whole and therefore being good is a simply evolutionary trait.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
542
126
Many would argue that when you treat others as you would have them treat you, you are acknowledging that there are others in the universe that are like you and subject to a higher authority, and that there is good and evil.
Like DaveSimmons said, it seems unreasonable to suggest that one can derive "acknowledging ... a higher authority" from the golden rule -- although I can concede that it is something that "many would argue," as you said.

Is that something that you would argue, and if so, upon what basis?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,710
6,198
126
The blind men don't know they're touching an elephant, however the observer does, which is how we know it's an elephant to begin with.

We're dealing with a world full of blind men, none of whom have seen god in his entirety, therefore as far as we all know each one is in fact touching his own deity, and not a part of a greater deity.

You have, I believe, made the assumption that because you do not know, nobody else does either. My point, again, is that there exists the story of an elephant seen imperfectly through a glass darkly because some folk have seen the elephant and created the story as an analogy. The story arises out of the consciousness of seers, not the blind. All I wanted to do was suggest this as a possibility because I believe your assumption blind you to such a possibility. It does not matter to me that you believe what you believe except, it seems to me, it shuts doors that are better open. If there is an elephant it is better to believe in that possibility, it seems to me, than to be sure one does not exist. This is based on the unproven assumption that it is better to see than to be blind. I have no proof of that or the elephant that I can offer.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I dont know what Muslims worship. All they seem to do is kill each other and use guns and bombs to control people. I think anyone that believes God tells them to kill people simply because they have a different religion has a mental problem. In fact, they even kill other Muslims. It is all about power and control.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
I dont know what Muslims worship. All they seem to do is kill each other and use guns and bombs to control people. I think anyone that believes God tells them to kill people simply because they have a different religion has a mental problem. In fact, they even kill other Muslims. It is all about power and control.

Christians kill Christians all the time in the US too.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I dont know what Muslims worship. All they seem to do is kill each other and use guns and bombs to control people. I think anyone that believes God tells them to kill people simply because they have a different religion has a mental problem. In fact, they even kill other Muslims. It is all about power and control.

Yay for the selective message of television.

Did you know almost every plane crashes? All the ones on the news seem to.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
So you admit there is more than one god.

No. There's only one God.

I worship the almighty living God who created the universe.

Those who worship other gods are worshiping false gods. I firmly believe that Muslims worship a false god.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
No. There's only one God.

I worship the almighty living God who created the universe.

Those who worship other gods are worshiping false gods. I firmly believe that Muslims worship a false god.

Yet the Muslims firmly believe that Allah is the same deity as your God.

What makes you right and them wrong.
The God that you worship (by your own religion admittance) uses at least 3 different names. Why can not there be other names besides just those three?

It seems as if you want to destroy any possibility of competition to your version of God.
 
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Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
What the muslims worship is not the same. They have a totally different view.

One group of people worship the "one true god".

Another group of people worship the "one true god".

A third group of people worship the "one true god".

Repeat this about 1500 times and you have the current religious climate on Earth.

Expand a person's viewpoint into realizing the earth is less than a spec of dust in terms of the galaxy as a whole, and picture that all of these "one true god"s designed this humongous space just for you. All of this space that you can't get to, can't survive in, and can barely even understand.

Then expand the view further - now picture hundreds of billions of galaxies, all full of hundreds of billions of planets, a bunch of which have beings on them that all worship their own version of their "one true god". Get the picture yet?

When you have 500 quintillion religions all focused on their "one true god", then suddenly that "one true god" that solely created the entire universe for them seems a little... far fetched.
 
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