Do not join the army!!! Its hell and they forget to tell you the truth at the recruiters...

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HiveTyrant

Member
Dec 5, 2000
162
0
0
Hey Ace, from the way you talk you must be a DI. Tell me this. If I ask a specific question from a recruiter can they lie??? I asked specifically what this da@# MOS entailed, would it be combat oriented in any way, oh no youll be supporting troops from the back. Fine. Dont lie to boost your quotas. Tell where it sayd in your little green book, "Do not compliment your recruits abilities in any way.." "Do not say good job ever...", "Do not let your recruit know he is accomplishing anything..." That is what the DI do at my BT. It was like there was a rule, dont let your recruits know they are human being s and are capable of doing any good.

There was one DI, he was the 2nd in command on our platoon. He was cool as hell, one night he needed me to work on the computer to input FIT scores. I said "YES DRILL..." He came in there and threw me a gatorade and offered me a sticky bun. Now that is prohibited food and drink in AIT but he said F@#@ it, hes doing a good job lets reward him.

Why the he77 cant the DI let you know your doing goood instead of letting you know your a piece of s#$#. Not all of us need to be beat into shape and learn respect.
 

HiveTyrant

Member
Dec 5, 2000
162
0
0
Agree 100% that black berret is for the elite and regular soldiers have no business wearing it. Also there is next to nill comradeship in BT, at least in the company I was in.

ACE - ? for you, is it the norm to have your DI to be booted out 7 weeks in the BT schedule, just curiouse.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
The first time they send you onto Tarawa II you'll understand, or your lack of understanding will be profound.

War is beyond words.

Preparation for war demands a high level of physical and emotional committment. A lot of kids have died in boot camp before they had a chance to die in vain in Viet Nam, for instance. Two kids died at Parris Island when I was there in 1961.

The Army isn't for everyone, but the universal draft should be reinstated until we reach the millenium.
 

Aceman

Banned
Oct 9, 1999
3,159
0
0
HiveTyrant,
Why can't he tell you good job instead of constantly making you feel like worthless crap? The easiest way to explain this type of training is to say that someday, if you stop complaining and stick it out, you will understand. But basically, the job of a DS is to break you down completely to nothing in order to mold you into a soldier. You are treated as an equal to the other trainees. His job is to train you to be a diciplined, not give you hugs and kisses and the common courtesy of giving you a reach around! Your graduation from BCT is your "Job well done" comment. Basic training is all a state of mind.

You thought that you'd never be in the "front lines"? Son, I'm now and have been a Personnel Sgt and Supply Sgt as close to the front lines as I was when I was a gun bunny, infantryman, and combat engineer! There is no "safe from the front line" job in the Army.

And what you actually do in the Army will very from type of unit to type of unit. And you're bitching about your college benefits????? Tell us what you were offered before you bitch about them! And if you don't like them? GET OUT! That would give me more money for my college benefits.

Why was the DS "booted" 7 weeks into your cycle? Hmmm, maybe he had a school to go to, maybe his trail time was up, maybe he gave up dealing with snivelling privates like yourself, maybe he had a family problem that needed to be taken care of. Maybe he was relieved. I don't know, but you are jumping to conclusions to say he was booted.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Aceman, aren't you a recruiter? I'll bet you just love getting these snot-nosed little brats in your office that just thought they were getting a free ride through college.
 

HiveTyrant

Member
Dec 5, 2000
162
0
0
Ace, do you know me? No you dont, that sh1tty mentality that everyone is dumb and immature and need to be broken down is whats wrong with the system.

Putting 16 year-olds in the same platoon with 25-30 year olds is not smart. What works for one age-group does not work for another. The older crowd does not need to be talked down to like the younger people.

I dont seem to remember "whining" about my college benefits any, just noting the difference between the Airforce and Army offers.

FYI my DI was kicked out for being too hard on his recruits. Thats all the info we got and that was the end of that. So there is something wrong with the process if DI are being sent in and then they need to be removed.

Also a 1% death rate for a company wasnt even a big deal. At least I know we had the same Captain that we started out with. Your all gung-ho and stuff, but its different when you havent been "brainwashed" with the kill charlie mentality and have been in the real , aka civie world.

They did consider all of the recruits kids that still lived at home and were below average mentality. Maybe that WAS true, but today most "kids" are more intelligent and hard working then they used to be, at least were I am from. I dont know how many DI were sick of the army and couldnt wait to get out. The best DIs I ever had were REserve DI they understood the civie world we had come from and knew the crap we were going through. For alot of thos DI's it was a power trip and nothing else.

FYI Im transferring to the "pansy" airforce, where at least they treat people - all people- with some respect. Ill be sure to look you up and will be waiting for your salute once Im done with Officers Training..

Speacialist Hive...
 

Jugernot

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,889
0
0
Hmmm, you didn't already know that the Army sucks? I suppose I'm a bit biased because my mom was an officer for 15 years in the Army, but I can tell you first hand that is sucks!!

NEVER EVER EVER go into the military if you can't handle the pressure! Especially if you are entering as an enlisted grunt.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
Geez, if this guy thinks it's hell in today's wussified Army, I wonder how long he would have lasted 25 or 30 years ago. Son, you don't know what abuse is.

I'll give you a little clue: You're supposed to hate your Drill Instructors. If you don't, they have not properly done their job.

Russ, NCNE
 

palad

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2000
1,586
0
0
Then again, if you hate your DI, you're certainly not going to be willing to die for him... you'd probably do everything within your power to make sure he's the one stopping a bullet.

For argument's sake:
I suppose, if you want to psychobabble it, you could say that to most recruits the DI is the 'face' of the army, they're the authority the recruit has the most contact with, and, therefore, any deep-seated emotions toward the DI would be transferred to the Army as a whole. If the only dogs you ever run into snarl and attack you, eventually you'll get to the point where you'll do everything to avoid/eliminate every dog you see.

Now I'm not saying that's not the way it's intended to work, perhaps it is. It's just not the ideal way to do it.
 

Aceman

Banned
Oct 9, 1999
3,159
0
0


<< Putting 16 year-olds in the same platoon with 25-30 year olds is not smart. What works for one age-group does not work for another. The older crowd does not need to be talked down to like the younger people. >>



Wow! When did they put 16yr olds in the Army. I see how well you interacted and worked with your fellow soldiers.





<< The best DIs I ever had were REserve DI they understood the civie world we had come from and knew the crap we were going through. For alot of thos DI's it was a power trip and nothing else. >>



Son, I have spent 15 years in the Reserves. The last 12+ on active duty in support of them. I think I know what the civilian world is all about.




<< Ill be sure to look you up and will be waiting for your salute once Im done with Officers Training.. >>



And I'll be sure to salute the rank on your collar and not the man in the uniform. You'll be one of the MANY officers I do that to. I can count on my hand the number of officers that I rendered a salute because of the man in the uniform and not the rank on his collar.

Good luck in the Air Force and always remember....I like the concept of the Air Force....They send their officers in to die.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Hey Aceman, I was an RA recruiter also. You know as well as I do the enlistment age is 17-34 yrs, 11 months, 29 days. 16 year olds aren't allowed in.

As far as saluting officers goes: Yes, I agree. Only a handful deserve a salute to the man, not the rank. Even though some work very hard, there's some respect issues there. I wasn't very political during my time in.

The best DIs I ever had were REserve DI they understood the civie world we had come from and knew the crap we were going through

Hive: You haven't seen the Drill Sergeants I have. The worst I saw were reservists. I'm speaking from the experience of a 20 year career. The vast majority of these Non Commissioned Officers are outstanding mentors and trainers. I personally never made it to the &quot;trail&quot;. Yet, I was a Platoon Sergeant on three different occasions. Drill school is a real challenge as is the duty. Countless hours dealing with trainees.

The object of basic training is not to brainwash you. The object is to instill discipline and familiarize you with policies, procedures and weapons. To train you so you'll work as a member of a team. To accomplish missions. Army basic is very easy compared to USMC. Air Force is much easier than Army.

They gave me crap for college, 3000.00. If id have joined Airforce it owuld have been 10000.00.

If you are contributing to the GI Bill, you will receive more than $3,000 for education. Should be about $17,000. The college fund bumps it up more. Same for all the services. I plan on using mine to earn a Masters degree. Check from VA goes directly to you, and it's not taxable either.

Im jsut trying to say the army lies alot and they really dont care all that much about you till your a captain.

Wrong. In regular line units, the Company Commander normally works harder than anyone else. That's just a fact. Each and every line Company Commander I ever saw worked some scary hours. That's because they A.) wanted to get promoted and B.) they did't want to get relieved or have their a$$ chewed on by the Battalion Commander daily. Being an active duty officer in a combat arms company or battalion is not easy.

Do you know that in order to make me a combat engineer they gave me 3 days of demo training?

Yes, and believe me, you'll receive more once you arrive at your unit. The demo training you got there was to familiarize you. The NCOs (the real backbone of the Army) at your next unit will teach you much more than the cadre at OSUT taught you.

Relax man. Service is a great thing if you use it right.

 

Pretender

Banned
Mar 14, 2000
7,192
0
0
I agree with the general consensus that it's the army for crying out loud and it's supposed to be difficult, but why do all you people keep calling him &quot;son&quot;?


I'm considering joining, but I'm a lazy, bordering-on-obese computer nerd and I probably wouldn't make it out of BT. Is there a way to sign up to work in the intelligence dept., or is that more of an &quot;invitational&quot; job?
 

Emos

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2000
1,989
0
0
Pretender, I was your run of the mill &quot;runt of the litter&quot; when I joined the military in high school. A lot of people had doubts about me making it through basic.....but I found it a lot easier then expected! Yes it was a challenge and many a night I was sore to the bone but I made it no problem! I started working out about 4 months before basic to get myself prepared and that made a LOT of difference.
As for working in intelligence, I believe that your recruiter will test you first to see if you qualify. If it's something you think you'll like, I say go for it!
 

mcveigh

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2000
6,468
6
81
Am I the only one here getting pissed off at these little &quot;whiny-pitiful-poor excuse for human beings&quot;? I'm not old corps, but I gave 4 years, my knees, my back, and my eyesight.

Hive, you are one of those you talk about, who needs to be broken down so you stop worrying about yourself and care more for those around you. Obviously you never learned it. I'm sure you'll get many salutes from your &quot;cannon fodder&quot;.

I never considered any of my Marines cannon fodder (although there were one or two that would get sent through the door first ) But I would and did put us in harms way where death was close. It's the price we were all willing to pay.
No regrets.

PS did you know the more enemy you kill the bigger your honor guard in hell.



 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0


<< but why do all you people keep calling him &quot;son&quot;? >>



Pretender,

Because he's younger then my son.

Now, on to you. You only think you're lazy because you don't have the right motivation. You're young, so even if you have a little baby fat, you're still plenty strong enough to handle the physical rigors.

That leaves only the mental toughness, and that you have to decide for yourself, son.

Russ, NCNE
 

PattySmear

Banned
Feb 4, 2001
84
0
0


<< Am I the only one here getting pissed off at these little &quot;whiny-pitiful-poor excuse for human beings&quot;? >>




No, there's a number of other posters here joing your level of idiocy.


 

Jarhead

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
550
0
0
Sounds like a few folks in the Army have been around folks
who lead by their rank.

Thats too bad, but it is not the rule. Often, due to your
reactions to situations, and interactions with others, you
can put yourself on the wrong side of the coin.

Take something like leadership. Lets take a very simple
scenario which is something that actually occured. I'd
been away from my MOS and the associated personnel for
three years. I returned and was placed in directly charge
of the 23 men, and indirectly in charge of the 75 men in
the compound. First thing, they started challenging my
authority on day one. Unlike those who used the authority
of their rank, I dealt with the situation just a bit
differently.

I took the most senior folks in and put them charge, and
made them accountable. Next, come that thursday, we had
field day (general cleanup for inspection the next day).
First thing I did, was to go in and start scrubbing toilets,
without saying anything to anyone. Normally, only a few
men are picked to go clean the restroom. Soon, I had
30 men who volunteered themselves to help out, and next
thing I know, they are telling me I shouldn't be doing this.
My response? &quot;If I am not willing to do a task, be it however
meager, how can I ask you to do the same?&quot; I just went and
started accomplishing other things that needed to be cleaned
up, such as washing walls, stripping and re-waxing the deck,
painting items that had paint worn off, so on and so on.
The next thing that occurred was that I was having a very
hard time finding things that needed to be done, as my men
began taking the initiative on their own. The next day, the
Major came down and gathered the men and told us that in his
two years, he had never seen the place look anything close to
what it did. The men had a sense of accomplishment and pride
in their work.

Week 3- I noticed that the physical fitness levels were not
where they should be, or at least where I felt they should be.
I institued mandatory physical training. I started hearing
some backlash and such. So, instead of tennis shoes, I wore
combat boots, cartridge belt, first aid kit, two canteens,
and a flak jacket as we did the physical training. Those guys
that complained quieted down, as they watched my example. Soon
thereafter, several of the men did the same. Before I know it,
everyone is doing the same. Our SgtMajor calls up, along with
the Major, as they have heard from other commands who were quite
motivated by what they were seeing, and the call was about what
I was doing with my men, and if I was forcing this on them.
Nope, I said, they are doing this of their own accord, we stared
in nylon shorts and tennis shoes. Later we had inspections, and
as the men felt better about themselves, they took better care
of their uniforms, ate better, got haircuts better than the regs,
and worked even harder.

I was assigned a young man who was a &quot;dirt bag&quot;, and had been
one for at least three years, and was known to be a major problem
for everyone. So I spent a alot of time working with him, and
asking him his opinion as we troubleshot different problems. Nope,
knowledge/skill was not the problem. Turned out that he was a rebel
who had a hard time interfacing. So I gave him some responsibility,
showed him the basics, taught him where to go and how to teach himself.
And I held him accountable and let him stumble on his own. Over time,
he realized the program was his, and it was a personal reflection of
his character. Next thing I know, he is working on Saturday (when he
was usually on the beach chasing girls), and the program was soon
what it had never been before, and he received a outstanding evaluation
during the audits of his program. I rewarded him for his efforts and
even gave him a few days off for the extra time and effort he put in.
He turned out to be one of our best men.

Just a few very simple examples.

When I left, I was credited for increasing production by 30%,
and reducing the returns by over 75%, increasing the morale and
motivation of my men, increasing the skill level and knowledge of
my men, producing men who were ready to take responsibility of the
next higher rank, setting the example for all others in the commmand,
and increasing the physical fitness and readiness of my Marines.

Good luck in the pursuit of your hopes and dreams of the future.

Semper Fidelis,

Douglas Leeper
SGT USMC
1986-1998
 

HiveTyrant

Member
Dec 5, 2000
162
0
0
Pretender I guess they call me son either because im a lwoly E-4 Specialist or because of my 22 years of age. Als there were some 16 year olds in my unit dont ask me how but there were. They werent done with high school, they had just finished there junior years.

I hope your right on the Combat engineer training. Ive been with my reserve unit for over a year now and what we do most of the time is play basketball and sit around twiddling our thumbs. Only thing weve done is take inventory, its a total waste of time to me and BS. Day goes by so much faster when your busy.

Burnedout, Ace I will earn that damn rank when I get it. I dont understand how you could get past Lt. without earning it... I have the mental ability, 99 on asfat, and I got the physical prowess. Just have to decide if its worth the hardwork Ill be putting in. After all this isnt my main career choice... And guys how long does it take for a friggin transfer from Army to Air Force? Its been 4 months and still nothing....

Oh yeah Ill be covering you groundpounders from my Copter if all works out....



 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
HiveTyrant

Last I heard, the army wouldn't accept people who didn't have a high school diploma or equivalent.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
&quot;We're here to uphold Democracy, not practice it&quot;

- Gene Hackman, Crimson Tide.
 

thebestMAX

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
7,487
121
106
ACEMAN-

<<And I'll be sure to salute the rank on your collar and not the man in the uniform. You'll be one of the MANY officers I do that to. I can count on my hand the number of officers that I rendered a salute because of the man in the uniform and not the rank on his collar.

Good luck in the Air Force and always remember....I like the concept of the Air Force....They send their officers in to die.>>

Of course you are right. You salute the 'hat' or 'collar' emblem and not the man. How else could many military in good conscience salute billy c?

What did you mean by they send their officers in to die? Did you mean pilots?

Only college grads could be officers in the AF last time I looked except for Warrant Officers (helicopter pilots often) and even that may not be true anymore. Dont even know if they still have Warrant Officers, was a move not to allow any more when I got out and let attrition take its course.


 

Mark

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,486
3
76
This is why HiveTyrant is mad:




1)Because the recruiter left out very importtant information about other duties he might have to do that he didn't think he had to do.

2)He found out 3 people died during training.




I'm guessing the problem here isn't him willing to take the challenge of the Army, but the problem he feels is the recruiter left out very critical information. Had the recruiter told him these facts, he might have reconsidered joining the army in the first place. I mean sh1t, I know I would be pissed if someone left out information like that before making a very important decision about my life like joining the Army.
 
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