Do NV GPUs support FreeSync?

[ViRGE]

G-Sync is an external piece of hardware that has a programmable display controller in it. nVidia cards (to our knowledge) do not have this hardware built into their card, which is why they had to go with an external piece of hardware. AMD cards do have this built in, which is why they do not require hardware inside the display.

If I could upvote this I would.

There is every reason to believe right now that NVIDIA GPUs pre-Maxwell 2 lack a display controller with the functionality required for variable refresh. Particularly since the pre-Maxwell 2 display controller is from GK104 in 2012 (NV didn't upgrade the display controller until GM204 in 2014). This situation isn't a problem in 2015 since GTX 960 ($200) and above are Maxwell 2 - and is why you'll see NVIDIA rebrand DisplayPort Active Sync for Mobile G-Sync - but in 2013 it would have been an issue. The alternative would have required waiting for GM204 in September of 2014 for G-Sync to launch, and while the G-Sync module is clumsy I'm not a fan of waiting.

NVIDIA will never (for realistic periods of "never") officially support DisplayPort Active Sync. They intend G-Sync to be a value-add feature along the lines of SLI, PhysX, and 3D Vision. Even after they retire the G-Sync module they will still require devices to be certified and licensed (i.e. royalty paying) in order to work with NVIDIA cards. They have 2/3rds of the dGPU market and a well-liked brand, which gives them the standing necessary to remain proprietary.

 

[ShintaiDK]

2/3rds? Much more than that today with 76% (May even be 80% now.). Just increasing the incentive to keep their own implementation.

 

[RussianSensation]

Even after they retire the G-Sync module they will still require devices to be certified and licensed (i.e. royalty paying) in order to work with NVIDIA cards. They have 2/3rds of the dGPU market and a well-liked brand, which gives them the standing necessary to remain proprietary.

And there lies another major negative of GSync. We already know that GSync worked on several laptops without a GSync module which means as you said with a modern driver and a modern display controller capable of A-Sync, the GSync module is not required. Now if you have 2 technologies where 1 only works on 15% of the GPUs in the world (because Intel+AMD occupy the other 85%), you are alienating a huge market. Not only that but if AMD finally manages to get solid mobile dGPUs, then we could have Intel+AMD powered FreeSync laptops that cost $100-200 less.

2/3rds? Much more than that today with 76% (May even be 80% now.). Just increasing the incentive to keep their own implementation.

All of that changes the minute Intel announces support for FreeSync. NV's market share context would go from 76% to 14-16% worldwide. Considering Intel isn't just making graphics for 'fun' and Intel isn't about to stop innovating / increasing GPU performance over the next 10 years, there is a strong possibility that once FreeSync gains market adoption, Intel will start paying attention. It would be suicidal for Intel to try to compete with AMD's 2016-2020 APUs and not have some kind of ASync technology. If Intel doesn't adopt ASync of some sorts, it would automatically destroy their chances of being considered for sub-$1000 laptops that are often used for less intensive gaming like LoL, WoW, Dota 2, SC2, L4D2, Team Fortress, etc. If we have a situation where Intel's APUs didn't support Async but AMD's APUs did, who would recommend Intel's APUs for gaming moving forward? Hardly many people. As a result, while Intel is currently lagging in this regard, they are a sleeping giant that is closely evaluating FreeSync. Once Intel goes to the drawing board for next generation GPU designs in Cannonlake and Icelake, why wouldn't they include DP 1.3 and FreeSync support?

And guess what would happen if Intel + AMD both supported FreeSync in 2-3 years from now?

Also, that 76% market share NV has today is 'artificial.' AMD basically voluntarily conceeded a ton of market share starting in Q3 2014 and continuing to Q1 and even Q2 2015 because they stopped shipping all R9 200 products to OEMs/wholesalers in order to clear inventory. This huge nuance keeps getting ignored on the forums. NV's GPU sales are hardly increasing at the expense of AMD's sales. What's happening is AMD is forfeiting sales to its own partners/channels but these sales are NOT being filled by NV, hence the entire discrete GPU market has dramatically shrunk by 15-20%. If NV was taking away AMD's sales, the market would still be at 14.5-16 million and NV's share would increase dramatically from 7-9 million to 11-12 million. That's not at all what's happening in the GPU industry. Once AMD ramps up R9 300 series production and sends products in Q3, Q4 2015 and Q1 2016, there should be a big rebound in their market share regardless of what NV does.

 

[ShintaiDK]

All of that changes the minute Intel announces support for FreeSync.

Lets see in the end of 2016 with 10nm Cannonlake. Because its not going to happen before. And it may be later.

And until the epic flaws with the way it works currently is fixed. It would only make everything worse for those that cant keep 40-48hz minimums.

With the current market there is zero incentive for Intel. Because the implementation of the technology is so flawed and counterproductive for more or less for anyone not sitting with Hawaii based cards.

 

[Phynaz]

Of course Intel will support adaptive sync. What VESA standard doesn't Intel support?

 

[96Firebird]

Adaptive sync portion of the VESA standard is optional.

 

[destrekor]

Adaptive sync portion of the VESA standard is optional.

Optional, sure, but for what reason would Intel NOT adopt it? Unlike ShintaiDK's hyperbole, adding it as a supported feature has zero downsides and allows their users to support new features. This would be a particularly great point to demonstrate for laptops with their iGPUs, and it definitely doesn't hurt to add a feature to desktops. For Intel, that would be all about laptops in reality, as desktop users who game on their iGPUs are unlikely to care about special gaming monitors. That said, it could be quite beneficial as it is more likely those users would have to deal with lower framerates.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Optional, sure, but for what reason would Intel NOT adopt it? Unlike ShintaiDK's hyperbole, adding it as a supported feature has zero downsides and allows their users to support new features. This would be a particularly great point to demonstrate for laptops with their iGPUs, and it definitely doesn't hurt to add a feature to desktops. For Intel, that would be all about laptops in reality, as desktop users who game on their iGPUs are unlikely to care about special gaming monitors. That said, it could be quite beneficial as it is more likely those users would have to deal with lower framerates.

What happens with the current freesync displays if you go below the 40-48hz minimums? Are you saying thats zero downside?

 

[.vodka]

The Freesync spec states a working range of 9-240Hz. Right now we're limited to 40-48hz minimum because of the display manufacturers.

That should change for the better going forward.

 

[Piroko]

Optional, sure, but for what reason would Intel NOT adopt it? Unlike ShintaiDK's hyperbole, adding it as a supported feature has zero downsides and allows their users to support new features. This would be a particularly great point to demonstrate for laptops with their iGPUs, ...

It is also a major power saving opportunity for dynamic content that isn't 3d. Think screens that are refreshlocked to gifs, flash- and youtube videos.

 

[96Firebird]

Laptops have already had this feature for a while, just not the gaming aspect of it. Kinda like what the GCN 1.0 dGPUs are capable of.

 

[Piroko]

Fairly sure that the current feature is restricted to refreshes with static content (refresh out of monitor buffer).

 

[ViRGE]

All of that changes the minute Intel announces support for FreeSync. NV's market share context would go from 76% to 14-16% worldwide. Considering Intel isn't just making graphics for 'fun' and Intel isn't about to stop innovating / increasing GPU performance over the next 10 years, there is a strong possibility that once FreeSync gains market adoption, Intel will start paying attention.

From a raw numbers standpoint you're not wrong. Assuming Intel eventually supports the standard - and there's no good reason to believe they won't - the bulk of systems on the market would be able to use DisplayPort Active Sync.

That said, I'm still not sure NVIDIA would care. Their entire position on value-add features is based around high performance gaming. SLI for more gaming performance, 3D Vision for 3D gaming, etc. So even if they're in the minority overall, so long as they still hold their dGPU market share, they have no incentive to stop with G-Sync.

 

[RussianSensation]

With the current market there is zero incentive for Intel. Because the implementation of the technology is so flawed and counterproductive for more or less for anyone not sitting with Hawaii based cards.

We just got a first wave of FreeSync monitors, get it 1st wave.

"It’s fair to assume that the FreeSync experience we got with the LG 34UM67 is probably the worst monitor to start with, as its narrow window of variable refresh more easily brings the complications of FreeSync to light. That is not a slight on the LG monitor itself, it is doing what it can based on the IPS panel technology that it has access to. With the Acer or BenQ monitor that each use a TN 40-144 Hz panel, you get a much larger window of variable refresh rates and thus are you going to see the issues presented by the outside experience zones much less frequently."~ PCPer

Like a lot of new technology, it will take time and FreeSync monitors will continue to improve, faster IPS panels will come out, etc. You must be a joy to work with in your workplace. You are the most pessimistic/negative person on these entire VG boards when it comes to anything AMD/innovation that's not from your preferred brands.

 

[stahlhart]

You must be a joy to work with in your workplace. You are the most pessimistic/negative person on these entire VG boards when it comes to anything AMD/innovation that's not from your preferred brands.

Oh, really?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2411938

Thread closed.

-- stahlhart