do restaurant employers have the right to pay for credit card service fees out of waiter's salary?

[oogabooga]

I would have figured that it wasn't allowed in the merchant rules/agreement. From what I understood it was worded in a way that the Merchant/Owner had to pay the fees. It was done that way to prevent owners from passing on fees to customers, I would have thought it would apply to their employees but I guess that's a can of worms in and of itself that the CC companies don't want to get into.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: oogabooga
I would have figured that it wasn't allowed in the merchant rules/agreement. From what I understood it was worded in a way that the Merchant/Owner had to pay the fees. It was done that way to prevent owners from passing on fees to customers, I would have thought it would apply to their employees but I guess that's a can of worms in and of itself that the CC companies don't want to get into.

Under most employment law, the owners are opening a can a of worms when they mess with employees tips.

MotionMan

 

[her209]

I can certainly see both points of views. On one hand, its not fair to the employer to have to pay the merchant fee on the tip amount. On the other hand, its not the employee's (waiter's) fault that the customer used a credit card to pay their bill plus tip.

 

[zerocool84]

You really think most of these waitresses care??? They make more money than most of us do here with all you people tipping even for bad service.

 

[Fenixgoon]

why not just build it into your pricing of food?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

While that sounds like it would make sense, those who depend on tips usually know they have to work harder and provide a better level of service if they expect to be tipped for the meal they serve.

We usually tip fairly well. When we walk into a restaurant, the server is starting at a 15% tip. Then, we adjust from there, depending on the level of service. If the server is GOOD, then 25% isn't out of line, but if the service sux, they may get 2 pennies...or just nothing and the manager is told why.

If we did away with tips, there's no incentive for a server to put forth the extra effort.

I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

/snip/

I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

In my state, the minimum tip wage is ~$4.50, which means that my delivery drivers make between $15-$18 an hour. They don't work any harder than the rest of the crew and use my vehicles and my gas, yet they can make twice as much as an employee in the kitchen working just as hard if not harder. How exactly is that fair the the other workers that don't get tipped wages?

It's very niave to think that it is just the servers effort that makes your dining experience pleasant. They rely on the kitchen to do everything but refill your drinks and take your order. I'm not knocking the profession, but they are VERY well compensated for what they do, especially if they're good at it.

 

[JS80]

Legal or not, it's a very poor business decision.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
While that sounds like it would make sense, those who depend on tips usually know they have to work harder and provide a better level of service if they expect to be tipped for the meal they serve.

If we did away with tips, there's no incentive for a server to put forth the extra effort.

You know, that attitude is a lot of what is wrong with America (and some other countries too, but it is really visible in this tipping example). Too many Americans feel that they won't do their job (the job that they are paid to do) properly unless they get more money.

If we went to a system where there are no tips, there is still a STRONG incentive for servers to do a good job. If the server does a bad job, people don't come back, and the server doesn't have a job any more (or at least doesn't get his built in tip).

Servers need to get some balls, demand proper wages, then do a proper job - each time and every time. They need to get rid of the attitude that sub-par performance is ok and that they should only do their job correctly if there is additional money dangling in front of them on a stick.

Plus the whole tipping as a percentage idea is silly. No one yet has ever given me an acceptible reason why a server should get paid less because I feel like fried chicken that day (lower cost on the menu) than grilled chicken (higher cost on the menu). The server does the same amount of work, so should get paid the same amount of tip in both cases. Same goes with water, why should the server get less money for giving me 3 glasses of ice water instead of ice cold soda? Tipping as a percentage really makes no sense at all if you think about it.

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

/snip/

I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

In my state, the minimum tip wage is ~$4.50, which means that my delivery drivers make between $15-$18 an hour. They don't work any harder than the rest of the crew and use my vehicles and my gas, yet they can make twice as much as an employee in the kitchen working just as hard if not harder. How exactly is that fair the the other workers that don't get tipped wages?

It's very niave to think that it is just the servers effort that makes your dining experience pleasant. They rely on the kitchen to do everything but refill your drinks and take your order. I'm not knocking the profession, but they are VERY well compensated for what they do, especially if they're good at it.

The servers make up 90% of the effort, and a good server can make or break the dining experience. I never wanted to be a server, so I did the dishes. I was fine with making my $7.50/hr as opposed to $2.13/hr+tips. Why? I didn't have to put up with picky douches or self righteous assholes. Also, on slow nights, I still made my full amount, while they didn't always make more than $5/hr if they added it all up.

If you as an honor feel it's unfair, go to a combined tipping method where it's split amongst everyone.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: BoomerD
While that sounds like it would make sense, those who depend on tips usually know they have to work harder and provide a better level of service if they expect to be tipped for the meal they serve.

If we did away with tips, there's no incentive for a server to put forth the extra effort.

You know, that attitude is a lot of what is wrong with America (and some other countries too, but it is really visible in this tipping example). Too many Americans feel that they won't do their job (the job that they are paid to do) properly unless they get more money.

If we went to a system where there are no tips, there is still a STRONG incentive for servers to do a good job. If the server does a bad job, people don't come back, and the server doesn't have a job any more (or at least doesn't get his built in tip).

Servers need to get some balls, demand proper wages, then do a proper job - each time and every time. They need to get rid of the attitude that sub-par performance is ok and that they should only do their job correctly if there is additional money dangling in front of them on a stick.

They don't do the bolded because servers are paid VERY WELL for what they do.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: JS80
They don't do the bolded because servers are paid VERY WELL for what they do.

Oh, I know that too (depending on the restaurant). A server at a high end restaurant will make $100k a year while the celebrated five-star chef that makes the fantastic food gets maybe $30k. If the chef is the owner, the chef may even lose money while the servers get a six figure income. But at a dive bar, the server isn't really making much at all.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

While that sounds like it would make sense, those who depend on tips usually know they have to work harder and provide a better level of service if they expect to be tipped for the meal they serve.

We usually tip fairly well. When we walk into a restaurant, the server is starting at a 15% tip. Then, we adjust from there, depending on the level of service. If the server is GOOD, then 25% isn't out of line, but if the service sux, they may get 2 pennies...or just nothing and the manager is told why.

If we did away with tips, there's no incentive for a server to put forth the extra effort.

I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

Umm the reason why people tip them is cus they get paid crap. Either way they get minimum wage no matter what. If their tips don't equal minimum wage they still get it from their employer. I don't understand why all you people tip for every little thing. If these people needed a better paying job they can go search for one. I'm not going to give someone something extra just for doing what's in their job description.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: JS80
They don't do the bolded because servers are paid VERY WELL for what they do.

Oh, I know that too (depending on the restaurant). A server at a high end restaurant will make $100k a year while the celebrated five-star chef that makes the fantastic food gets maybe $30k. If the chef is the owner, the chef may even lose money while the servers get a six figure income. But at a dive bar, the server isn't really making much at all.

So what's the problem?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

Because it's impossible to know how much people will tip. If you build it into the price of food based on a 10% tip and the diner leaves a 25% tip, you lose. If you build it into the price of food based on a 25% tip and the diner leaves a 10% tip, the diner loses.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this practice at all. If a person leaves a tip with a credit card, the merchant is charged an additional amount because the raw total on which the percentage transaction charge is based is larger. The employer has to eat the CC charge on its product and it is only fair that the waiter/waitress has to eat the CC charge on his or her tip.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

ALL states prohibit those wages. In fact, FEDERAL law prohibits such total wages. Under federal law, if an employee's reported tips do not bring that employee's total income up to at least the non-tippable minimum wage, then the employer has to make up the difference. It is incredibly rare for tippable employees not to come in well above the non-tippable minimum wage when tips are included.

ZV

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: JS80
So what's the problem?

I'm confused, you were responding to my post about the problem. The problem is that servers think that they shouldn't do their job properly unless you give them more.

 

[mugs]

I think it's reasonable to deduct the actual fees incurred by the tip, and I think it's unreasonable to expect the employer to pay those fees (even though most do pay them).

Look at it this way... be glad you're not paying taxes on all of those cash tips that you don't report to the IRS, that'd cost more than the tiny CC fees for the CC tips.

5% is too high though, most CC fees are much lower.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: mugs
I think it's reasonable to deduct the actual fees incurred by the tip, and I think it's unreasonable to expect the employer to pay those fees (even though most do pay them).

Look at it this way... be glad you're not paying taxes on all of those cash tips that you don't report to the IRS, that'd cost more than the tiny CC fees for the CC tips.

5% is too high though, most CC fees are much lower.

The IRS assumes that a server earns a certain percentage of tips on the receipts for the tables they serve, I think they assume 8%. The big party that takes up your station for most of the evening, drops a boatload of money but stiffs you on the tip? You're liable to report 8% of that bill as tip income be it paid by CC or in cash.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
-snip-
I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

I'm pretty sure they ARE paid at least the full minimum wage. I.e., if the tips and the $2.13 combined don't meet minimum wage standards the employer has to make an additional payment to the employee so they do.

Fern

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

ALL states prohibit those wages. In fact, FEDERAL law prohibits such total wages. Under federal law, if an employee's reported tips do not bring that employee's total income up to at least the non-tippable minimum wage, then the employer has to make up the difference. It is incredibly rare for tippable employees not to come in well above the non-tippable minimum wage when tips are included.

ZV

Originally posted by: Fern

I'm pretty sure they ARE paid at least the full minimum wage. I.e., if the tips and the $2.13 combined don't meet minimum wage standards the employer has to make an additional payment to the employee so they do.

Fern

You BOTH are missing my point. Several states require the employer to pay their tipped employees the full minimum wage...with NO tip credit. The employees get to keep their tips (or pool them) on top of the minimum wage.


I travelled a lot for my work over the years. The small differences in prices at restaurants could have just as easily been attributed to local factors such as land costs, taxes, etc., rather than on the difference between $2.13 sub-minimum wage and the full minimum wage.

I've never believed that a server's tips should be counted towards the minimum wage. The employer should be required to pay the full minimum wage and the tips be totally separate. (I don't tip the restaurant, I tip the server...why should the restaurant owner be allowed to take a credit for what I give the server?)

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not just build it into your pricing of food?

Because it's impossible to know how much people will tip. If you build it into the price of food based on a 10% tip and the diner leaves a 25% tip, you lose. If you build it into the price of food based on a 25% tip and the diner leaves a 10% tip, the diner loses.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this practice at all. If a person leaves a tip with a credit card, the merchant is charged an additional amount because the raw total on which the percentage transaction charge is based is larger. The employer has to eat the CC charge on its product and it is only fair that the waiter/waitress has to eat the CC charge on his or her tip.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I DO however believe that servers and other tipped employees should be paid the FULL minimum wage instead of the $2.13 sub-standard minimum wage that is allowed by the FLSA.
A big :thumbsup: to the states that prohibit such shitty wages.

ALL states prohibit those wages. In fact, FEDERAL law prohibits such total wages. Under federal law, if an employee's reported tips do not bring that employee's total income up to at least the non-tippable minimum wage, then the employer has to make up the difference. It is incredibly rare for tippable employees not to come in well above the non-tippable minimum wage when tips are included.

ZV

why not collect data and do an analysis, then? obviously this is impractical on an individual basis.. but for something like a chain restaurant, it might prove useful.

also, i'm not complaining about it at all. i just figured it'd be built into the pricing, just like everything else

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

ALL states prohibit those wages. In fact, FEDERAL law prohibits such total wages. Under federal law, if an employee's reported tips do not bring that employee's total income up to at least the non-tippable minimum wage, then the employer has to make up the difference. It is incredibly rare for tippable employees not to come in well above the non-tippable minimum wage when tips are included.

ZV

Originally posted by: Fern

I'm pretty sure they ARE paid at least the full minimum wage. I.e., if the tips and the $2.13 combined don't meet minimum wage standards the employer has to make an additional payment to the employee so they do.

Fern

You BOTH are missing my point. Several states require the employer to pay their tipped employees the full minimum wage...with NO tip credit. The employees get to keep their tips (or pool them) on top of the minimum wage.

-snip-

Then, unlesss there's a "no Tipping" policy, wait staff has a defacto higher min wage requirement than all other classes of employees. That makes no sense to me. Why advocate it?

Fern

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
why not collect data and do an analysis, then?

Because that's how we roll. Tipping practices are mostly based on tradition, and the tradition in the US is that we tip waiters (and tip hot waitresses more).

 

[Krazy4Real]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I'd just deal with it, and hook up my friends with free food. I ALWAYS win in the end :^D

Win