I've never had a nice pair of running shoes, will they help a lot? What is it that is good about running shoes?
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
I think the advantages of shoes outweigh the disadvantages. For one, I don't stub my toes while wearing shoes Plus you don't pick up all those nasty diseases crawling around on the ground and you can walk on rocky terrain just fine But those Vivo Barefoot shoes from the article look interesting:
http://www.terraplana.com/vivobarefoot
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
I've never had a nice pair of running shoes, will they help a lot? What is it that is good about running shoes?
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
I think the advantages of shoes outweigh the disadvantages. For one, I don't stub my toes while wearing shoes Plus you don't pick up all those nasty diseases crawling around on the ground and you can walk on rocky terrain just fine But those Vivo Barefoot shoes from the article look interesting:
http://www.terraplana.com/vivobarefoot
The KSO version of the vibram five fingers I linked to in my post prevent all the issues you mentioned while still effectively allowing you to run as if you're barefoot.
Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
I've never had a nice pair of running shoes, will they help a lot? What is it that is good about running shoes?
Yes. Go to a real running store, have them watch you run, and let them decide what kind of shoe you need, based on your foot (neutral,motion control, or stability).
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
I think the advantages of shoes outweigh the disadvantages. For one, I don't stub my toes while wearing shoes Plus you don't pick up all those nasty diseases crawling around on the ground and you can walk on rocky terrain just fine But those Vivo Barefoot shoes from the article look interesting:
http://www.terraplana.com/vivobarefoot
The KSO version of the vibram five fingers I linked to in my post prevent all the issues you mentioned while still effectively allowing you to run as if you're barefoot.
Let us know when you're running a marathon in them.
Consider a paper titled ?Athletic Footwear: Unsafe Due to Perceptual Illusions,? published in a 1991 issue of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. ?Wearers of expensive running shoes that are promoted as having additional features that protect (e.g., more cushioning, ?pronation correction?) are injured significantly more frequently than runners wearing inexpensive shoes (costing less than $40).? According to another study, people in expensive cushioned running shoes were twice as likely to suffer an injury?31.9 injuries per 1,000 kilometers, as compared with 14.3?than were people who went running in hard-soled shoes.
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
I think the advantages of shoes outweigh the disadvantages. For one, I don't stub my toes while wearing shoes Plus you don't pick up all those nasty diseases crawling around on the ground and you can walk on rocky terrain just fine But those Vivo Barefoot shoes from the article look interesting:
http://www.terraplana.com/vivobarefoot
The KSO version of the vibram five fingers I linked to in my post prevent all the issues you mentioned while still effectively allowing you to run as if you're barefoot.
Let us know when you're running a marathon in them.
Thanks for the constructive post... Actually, you may want to read through the You Walk Wrong article and note some interesting quotes, such as:
Consider a paper titled ?Athletic Footwear: Unsafe Due to Perceptual Illusions,? published in a 1991 issue of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. ?Wearers of expensive running shoes that are promoted as having additional features that protect (e.g., more cushioning, ?pronation correction?) are injured significantly more frequently than runners wearing inexpensive shoes (costing less than $40).? According to another study, people in expensive cushioned running shoes were twice as likely to suffer an injury?31.9 injuries per 1,000 kilometers, as compared with 14.3?than were people who went running in hard-soled shoes.
Anyways, I'm not into endurance running - I consider it a pretty piss poor way to train - but occasionally a longer run (up to 15k) comes up as a Crossfit workout. Next time it does, I'll certainly be posting my experiences on this messageboard.
In the meantime, you can read about the numerous athletes who do use VFF's for long runs, such as Ted McDonald (who has run 50 mile trail races in them), Keith-In-Training (who has used them for everything, including a 52.1 mile race), and of course the countless users on runningbarefoot.org and barefootrunner.com, many of whom wear no shoes at all, even for incredibly long runs. Educate yourself a bit: humans have been running barefoot for millions of years during which evolution has perfected the foot for just that purpose. That's just a touch longer than the Nike has had to perfect the shoe.
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
:laugh: Sorry, I'll educate myself properly and not take a single flawed study(were all runners wearing proper running footwear? No) or the opinion of a handful of people to think that there's only one way to do something. And sorry to break it to you but everyone's body is different. B/c of today's footwear, millions of people are able to enjoy running. And yes, you don't need expensive footwear but you need proper footwear. My running shoes are less expensive than your VFFs. Interesting that Elite and Olympic athletes train wearing footwear(not VFF).
You should spend some time over in the Runnersworld forums. I respect your opinion on most everything but since you think endurance running is a piss poor way to train maybe, you should stick to your areas of expertise.
So by "educate yourself properly" you mean you'll ignore scientific studies and just do whatever the Nike salesmen tell you? Or you'll go to a running shoe store where an "expert" will watch you run for 15 seconds and then... recommend you whatever the Nike brochure tells them?Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
:laugh: Sorry, I'll educate myself properly and not take a single flawed study(were all runners wearing proper running footwear? No) or the opinion of a handful of people to think that there's only one way to do something.
You know, if you used some common sense, you might come to the astonishing conclusion that human beings have evolved remarkably well to run. And you might stumble upon the idea that during all those millions of years of evolution, we didn't wear shoes and somehow, even though "everyone's body is different" still got by quite well. Or, you could look look at developing countries, where most of the residents still don't wear shoes, and notice how they have a "substantially lower prevalence of acute injuries of the ankle and chronic injuries of the lower leg."Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
And sorry to break it to you but everyone's body is different. B/c of today's footwear, millions of people are able to enjoy running.
First, this seems pretty irrelevant to the discussion of whether barefoot style running is healthier than shod running. Second, the VFFs are obviously a niche product, unlike sneakers which are quite mainstream, so the price is unsurprisingly high. Finally, kotss already discussed the fact that VFFs don't need to be replaced as often as sneakers and cost less in the long term.Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
My running shoes are less expensive than your VFFs.
First, to be clear, I'm not saying VFFs are the ultimate footwear, but simply that developing proper running technique, which mirrors how you'd run barefoot, is incredibly important and that most sneakers make this very difficult to do. VFFs have come out only recently and whether olympic athletes wear them has little bearing on that discussion. However, as noted in some of the articles I linked above, there have been many elite and olympic athletes who ran barefoot and won. Second, shoes are actually required during most stages of a competitive runner's life, including numerous track & field organizations, most training facilities, schools, etc. Once you've learned to run in shoes, especially at competitive levels, it would be awfully difficult to re-learn everything. Third, the manufacturers of shoes have been very successful at convincing us at how essential shoes are, which is not surprising given how much they stand to gain from that.Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Interesting that Elite and Olympic athletes train wearing footwear(not VFF).
You know Runner's World has a barefoot running forum where VFF's are discussed fairly often, right? And yes, unless you are specifically training for endurance running (which I'm not), it's a poor way to train for almost anything else.Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
You should spend some time over in the Runnersworld forums. I respect your opinion on most everything but since you think endurance running is a piss poor way to train maybe, you should stick to your areas of expertise.
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: brikis98
I really used to think so, until I read the article You Walk Wrong. Since then, I've been realizing more and more that it's shoes in general that are the problem - or, more specifically, the incorrect and unnatural technique that they encourage. I recently got a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and am trying to teach myself a safer running technique using POSE and the barefoot running site. Honestly, I think you'd see far more benefit from investing time improving your technique than investing money in fancy shoes.
I think the advantages of shoes outweigh the disadvantages. For one, I don't stub my toes while wearing shoes Plus you don't pick up all those nasty diseases crawling around on the ground and you can walk on rocky terrain just fine But those Vivo Barefoot shoes from the article look interesting:
http://www.terraplana.com/vivobarefoot
The KSO version of the vibram five fingers I linked to in my post prevent all the issues you mentioned while still effectively allowing you to run as if you're barefoot.
Let us know when you're running a marathon in them.
Thanks for the constructive post... Actually, you may want to read through the You Walk Wrong article and note some interesting quotes, such as:
Consider a paper titled ?Athletic Footwear: Unsafe Due to Perceptual Illusions,? published in a 1991 issue of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. ?Wearers of expensive running shoes that are promoted as having additional features that protect (e.g., more cushioning, ?pronation correction?) are injured significantly more frequently than runners wearing inexpensive shoes (costing less than $40).? According to another study, people in expensive cushioned running shoes were twice as likely to suffer an injury?31.9 injuries per 1,000 kilometers, as compared with 14.3?than were people who went running in hard-soled shoes.
Anyways, I'm not into endurance running - I consider it a pretty piss poor way to train - but occasionally a longer run (up to 15k) comes up as a Crossfit workout. Next time it does, I'll certainly be posting my experiences on this messageboard.
In the meantime, you can read about the numerous athletes who do use VFF's for long runs, such as Ted McDonald (who has run 50 mile trail races in them), Keith-In-Training (who has used them for everything, including a 52.1 mile race), and of course the countless users on runningbarefoot.org and barefootrunner.com, many of whom wear no shoes at all, even for incredibly long runs. Educate yourself a bit: humans have been running barefoot for millions of years during which evolution has perfected the foot for just that purpose. That's just a touch longer than the Nike has had to perfect the shoe.
I don't bash people if they enjoy running and like to be competitive at it. If LDR is your thing, then by all means do it - as you put it, "enjoy what you like to do." However, LDR alone is a pretty poor training tool for most other goals, such as weight loss, strength gain, athletic performance, overall fitness & health, etc. For some reason, lots of people have this conception that LSD running is the ultimate path to fitness and that is just usually not the case. In fact, even to become good at LDR, you don't need massive doses of LDR: check out Crossfit Endurance for people that use fairly short interval & anaerobic training sessions in preparation for marathons, triathalons, etc.Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
In regards to LDR being a "piss poor way to train" - it's just another sport similar to anything else you can do. You like doing CrossFit or being able to do 30 muscle ups in a row...we LDR's like being able to run a 13.1 or 26.2 mile race before you even wake up on a Sunday morning. Big whoop. Enjoy what you like to do. I don't bash people because they can't run more than 3 miles in a row. :beer: