Do the Buddhists have Terrorists?

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Vic
Buddhism, while great in many ways, is not a perfect religion. Selflessness can be taken too far, as can the abolition of the self, and become a kind of selfish apathy. There are also many westerners who, after failing to understand western religion, do even worse at understanding eastern religion.

Well, IMO, there are no perfect religions, because all of them have been perverted to various degree by the various interpreters, educators and political forces (aka us), intentionally and otherwise.

Sorry to say, but as a simple voice of dissent, I think that if you think that selflessness etc., can be overdone, then you yourself don't understand some of the core of some of these religions. No matter though. If we all really understood and more to the point lived this stuff, we'd be done.

But if you're just saying that you think that people can get delusional about their actions and spirituality easily, then I'd simply agree with you.

"Self, Hafiz, self! That must thou overcome!"

(Hafiz, trans. R. Le Gallienne)

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Rainsford
If the question is whether or not there are Buddhists who ARE terrorists, or engage in terrorist-like activities, I'd say that such people certainly exist. Many Japanese are "Buddhist" and they've had some domestic terrorism, certainly. However, I don't believe there are "Buddhist terrorists" the same way there are "Muslim terrorists" or even "Christian terrorists". Buddhist is a fundamentally different religion, and many of the tenets of Buddhism would make it quite difficult to use to justify terrorism the way Western religions can sometimes be perverted. The biggest difference, IMHO, is that Buddhism encourages faith as an internal, person thing that MUST fit within your experience and judgment. There is a path to walk, but it is you who must walk it, in your own way and at your own time. Buddha himself is said to have suggested that you should ignore everything you hear, no matter who said it, even if HE said it, if it does not fit with your own knowledge and experience. That puts Buddhism in sharp contrast to Western religions and makes it quite difficult to use to force people to take actions they might not otherwise...a religion that encourages dissent and thinking for yourself does not produce a lot of sheep. baa baa baa

fixed

Care to elaborate???

Is he a sheep because he's "bashing Western Religions"? :laugh:

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: athithi
I believe there were quite a few buddhist monks in Sri Lanka who led and participated in the pogrom against the Tamils in 1983. I am not sure if it had wider religious implications, but I have read several accounts where monks in garbs were reported to have openly participated in the riots.

I might be wrong, but isn't Sri Lanka one of the countries were all buddhist men are suppose to spend a few months as a monk? I.e. regardless if they are devout or not.
If that is the case that would explain those accounts.

That said, sure Buddhists can become terrorists. Buddhism can be "combined" with other religions and in e.g. in Japan a common combination is Buddhism and Shinto, and the latter is definitly not a "peacefull" religion as such.

Also, the teachings of Aum Shinrikyo (the group that carried out the 1995 gas attack in Tokyo) is at least in part based on Buddhism.

 

[Deslok]

"christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed."

back that up please.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Rainsford
If the question is whether or not there are Buddhists who ARE terrorists, or engage in terrorist-like activities, I'd say that such people certainly exist. Many Japanese are "Buddhist" and they've had some domestic terrorism, certainly. However, I don't believe there are "Buddhist terrorists" the same way there are "Muslim terrorists" or even "Christian terrorists". Buddhist is a fundamentally different religion, and many of the tenets of Buddhism would make it quite difficult to use to justify terrorism the way Western religions can sometimes be perverted. The biggest difference, IMHO, is that Buddhism encourages faith as an internal, person thing that MUST fit within your experience and judgment. There is a path to walk, but it is you who must walk it, in your own way and at your own time. Buddha himself is said to have suggested that you should ignore everything you hear, no matter who said it, even if HE said it, if it does not fit with your own knowledge and experience. That puts Buddhism in sharp contrast to Western religions and makes it quite difficult to use to force people to take actions they might not otherwise...a religion that encourages dissent and thinking for yourself does not produce a lot of sheep. baa baa baa

fixed

Care to elaborate???

Is he a sheep because he's "bashing Western Religions"? :laugh:

Uh, yeah. Hell, I'm not even "bashing Western Religions", I'm simply pointing out objective differences between the world's religions. The idea that Buddhism encourages individual interpretation while Christianity and Islam push more for "church authority" is not opinion, that's simply a factor of how those religions function.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my statement:

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

And the Christian's God's plan concerning those who oppose the Christian faith:

And Jesus spoke and said, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

Deuteronomy 17
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Here are some more fun quotes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

Deuteronomy 17
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Here are some more fun quotes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Oops you forgot the rest of the passage:

On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

See the difference? It's like we have now in our country. No one man can judge and jury. It must be decided by a group of peers. Unlike in the Koran, where you are instructed to make that decision yourself.

Oops.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

See the difference?

No, not really. They both are a blight on human history.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

See the difference?

No, not really. They both are a blight on human history.

lol OK

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

You posted a single random quote without even understanding what it is talking about...yet you still have the audacity to tell the people here that "Everything has to be taken in context"?

WOW

 

[bigben]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
They do not have a "black and white" view of good and evil like the other major religions.

This imo is why they are less fanatical.

Also it seems muslims are very terriritorial and christianity is dead set on converting the world by sword if needed. Buddism is more about good old breeding the religion into what it is now and being accepting of one another instead of looking down on others.

SNIPPED

Wow you dont understand the Muslin faith do you...the core of the Muslim faith is the pronouncement of the Shahada, which translated says "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger." Also, the Koran is their holy doctrine. The biggest difference between Christianity and Muslim faith, besides having different Gods (lol) is Christians tell us repent or be judged, the Koran says repent or die. And it is the authority of Allah that is invoked into those that kill in his name.

Big difference, and certainly not peaceful.

edit: added quote from Koran to back up my stement:
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Yes, because nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that :roll:

Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

Deuteronomy 17
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Here are some more fun quotes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

its great to see this much scripture on Anandtech. Too bad it is only snippets and they are a bit out of context. The majority of these deal with the Jewish faith and the particular goals God had for Israel in ancient times. Much different that the precepts we Christians hold as central to our faith.

Also, our heading over the Romans 1 passage "Infidels and Gays should die" - your usage of "should" is ambiguous. They "should" die in the same way that all of us "should die." We are all sinners, so all of us deserve judgement. This passage is a description of the moral consequences of sin (and, some would say, of Roman culture) and is not an imperative statement that Christians who see these things should pick up stones and kill these people. No, it is rather a statement that God will deal with sinners in his way in his time. The time of the patriarchs, of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, has passed.

as an aside: Why do you use different translations?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: bigben

its great to see this much scripture on Anandtech. Too bad it is only snippets and they are a bit out of context. The majority of these deal with the Jewish faith and the particular goals God had for Israel in ancient times. Much different that the precepts we Christians hold as central to our faith.

Also, our heading over the Romans 1 passage "Infidels and Gays should die" - your usage of "should" is ambiguous. They "should" die in the same way that all of us "should die." We are all sinners, so all of us deserve judgement. This passage is a description of the moral consequences of sin (and, some would say, of Roman culture) and is not an imperative statement that Christians who see these things should pick up stones and kill these people. No, it is rather a statement that God will deal with sinners in his way in his time. The time of the patriarchs, of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, has passed.

as an aside: Why do you use different translations?

I think he is making an example to blackangst I don't know if he necessarily believes it. But the point is that you can twist things easily as you see it - and perhaps he used different translations to show that?

Hell even black angst got the translation of the Shahadah absolutely wrong.

La Ila-heh Ila Allah, Mohammed-den resool allah
There is NO God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger


HUGE difference from that and "There is none worthy of worship except Allah"...actually blackangst where did you get the shahada to be written at that? While I'm not formal Arabic expert, and my fluency exists within spoken Arabic (Iraqi Arabic to be precise) the Shahadeh is extremely simply in terms of translation. Even a very crude literal translation would be:No God but God, Mohammed is prophet is God

But Bigben - I think that was his point. He takes quotes out of context from Islam to make them appear to mean one thing - and claims that his twisted view of Muslims is the correct one....so steelplerot did the exact same thing to show him how ridiculous his vew is...

interestingly...i find some characters here absolutely static. No matter how much you talk, discuss, or reason....the seem to repeat the same drivel over and over even if it is debunked. What can you do, eh?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: bigben

its great to see this much scripture on Anandtech. Too bad it is only snippets and they are a bit out of context. The majority of these deal with the Jewish faith and the particular goals God had for Israel in ancient times. Much different that the precepts we Christians hold as central to our faith.

Also, our heading over the Romans 1 passage "Infidels and Gays should die" - your usage of "should" is ambiguous. They "should" die in the same way that all of us "should die." We are all sinners, so all of us deserve judgement. This passage is a description of the moral consequences of sin (and, some would say, of Roman culture) and is not an imperative statement that Christians who see these things should pick up stones and kill these people. No, it is rather a statement that God will deal with sinners in his way in his time. The time of the patriarchs, of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, has passed.

as an aside: Why do you use different translations?

I think he is making an example to blackangst I don't know if he necessarily believes it. But the point is that you can twist things easily as you see it - and perhaps he used different translations to show that?

Hell even black angst got the translation of the Shahadah absolutely wrong.

La Ila-heh Ila Allah, Mohammed-den resool allah
There is NO God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger


HUGE difference from that and "There is none worthy of worship except Allah"...actually blackangst where did you get the shahada to be written at that? While I'm not formal Arabic expert, and my fluency exists within spoken Arabic (Iraqi Arabic to be precise) the Shahadeh is extremely simply in terms of translation. Even a very crude literal translation would be:No God but God, Mohammed is prophet is God

But Bigben - I think that was his point. He takes quotes out of context from Islam to make them appear to mean one thing - and claims that his twisted view of Muslims is the correct one....so steelplerot did the exact same thing to show him how ridiculous his vew is...

interestingly...i find some characters here absolutely static. No matter how much you talk, discuss, or reason....the seem to repeat the same drivel over and over even if it is debunked. What can you do, eh?

I think the misunderstanding is that many people think that Allah means something other than God. It doesn't other than being a very specific way to say god. The best direct translation of Allah would be "The God." Otherwise, just because it is another language does not make it a different word.

Uh... btw, rot is one of those characters as well, and his purpose was not as subtle as you make it to be. He was trying to show that Christians are just as bad as Muslims, nothing more than.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Vic
I think the misunderstanding is that many people think that Allah means something other than God. It doesn't other than being a very specific way to say god. The best direct translation of Allah would be "The God." Otherwise, just because it is another language does not make it a different word.

Interestingly enough, this is one of my biggest problems when dealing with someone who isn't Muslim who thinks Islam is about "killing babies". "Go pray to Allah" or "I believe in God, you believe in your God named Allah" is something that can be heard and is made to be stated in a derogatory manner.

Uh... btw, rot is one of those characters as well, and his purpose was not as subtle as you make it to be. He was trying to show that Christians are just as bad as Muslims, nothing more than.

rot?

 

[Vic]

steeplerot


edit: and sectarians tend to pride themselves on their exclusivity, a sort of "God loves us and hates you" kind of attitude, so the concept of a universal God is something they tend to be unwilling to accept, despite what their own scriptures (both Bible and Quran) say on the subject.

 

[Vonkhan]

The Indian SFF (special forces) and ITBF Para-military forces are the closest that tibetian buddhists have gotten to be in a regular amed force

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Special-Forces/SFF.html

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not in any Bible I've read. Im not denying war hasnt been waged in God's name, but everything has to be taken in context. No where in the Bible...no where....does it instruct Christians to slay those that dont repent. That theme is repeated over 50 times in the Koran.

You posted a single random quote without even understanding what it is talking about...yet you still have the audacity to tell the people here that "Everything has to be taken in context"?

WOW

Especially considering that's the one quote most often taken out of context and used as a dishonest proof. I really should find one of the threads I rebutt and explain how idiotically that line is misused and have it ready for occasions such as this.