Not exactly "free."We are free to choose our actions, but we aren't free to choose our consequences. We can jump out of an airplane without a parachute, but we're not free to bypass the consequences of that action.
We are free to choose our actions,
What makes you think your brain works by virtue of deterministic rules? That's cockeyed.Are we though? Where does that freedom come from? Our brains work according to the deterministic rules of physics, no?
What makes you think your brain works by virtue of deterministic rules? That's cockeyed.
Who brought up the idea of magic?So the brain is magic? It somehow operates outside the domain of physics? Where's the evidence for this theory of yours? It sounds cockeyed to me.
Dude you are a few years late with that repostwhat about free willy?
Who brought up the idea of magic?
Physics is NOT deterministic. The idea that physics determines anything in some absolute unwavering way is an illusion. Heisenberg established that in his Uncertainty Principle.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
I tried walking through this, probably with him/her/them, already. Some people seem to think the universe is deterministic despite all evidence to the contrary.Who brought up the idea of magic?
Physics is NOT deterministic. The idea that physics determines anything in some absolute unwavering way is an illusion. Heisenberg established that in his Uncertainty Principle.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
Who brought up the idea of magic?
Physics is NOT deterministic. The idea that physics determines anything in some absolute unwavering way is an illusion. Heisenberg established that in his Uncertainty Principle.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
That's silly, if classical physics depends on quantum physics, all things depend on, and are influenced by, quantum effects.I understand the temptation to cite Heisenberg's uncertainty principle as an argument against determinism, however its impact is effectively restricted to the quantum realm of small particles that are isolated from complex interactions with other particles. At the levels of size and complexity that the brain operates at, the chemistry upon which it relies does seem to be deterministic. So I (choose to 😄) think that the question remains to be what other mechanisms (besides chemistry) might give rise to non-deterministic results from our brains.
At certain length scales physics is deterministic, at least for a period of time.Who brought up the idea of magic?
Physics is NOT deterministic. The idea that physics determines anything in some absolute unwavering way is an illusion. Heisenberg established that in his Uncertainty Principle.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
Counterpoint: three body problems are technically deterministic (by our definitions) but are virtually impossible to calculate due to the impossible specificity of starting conditions required to calculate it. And that's a pretty simple system, considering the rest of nature.At certain length scales physics is deterministic, at least for a period of time.
Exactly. So what’s to say that humans aren’t just incredibly complex deterministic machines? With 10^100 potential next state configurations every 10^-34 seconds, it’s so hard to calculate what’s next that it might as well be random. Same as the three body problem which is well defined by the differential equations of general relativity. To my knowledge there has been no demonstration of quantum uncertainty effects being important at the length and size scale of biological computations happening in the brain.Counterpoint: three body problems are technically deterministic (by our definitions) but are virtually impossible to calculate due to the impossible specificity of starting conditions required to calculate it. And that's a pretty simple system, considering the rest of nature.
I have his book and have read it, it confirms a lot of what I've felt about most of our existence and brought up a few new things as well (such as his 'consciousness is a mathematical formula being processed' theory. Regarding everything eventually being a deterministic machine, eventually you run into issues of nonsensical reductionism, like plotting out every classical physics interaction that ever takes place in our universe then claiming 'see, it was all deterministic'. With perfect tracking of an extremely complex system, you can only really prove it was random with a time machine. Mind you, claiming that the universe is definitely, absolutely deterministic completely removes free will from existence, which is still absurd.Exactly. So what’s to say that humans aren’t just incredibly complex deterministic machines? With 10^100 potential next state configurations every 10^-34 seconds, it’s so hard to calculate what’s next that it might as well be random. Same as the three body problem which is well defined by the differential equations of general relativity. To my knowledge there has been no demonstration of quantum uncertainty effects being important at the length and size scale of biological computations happening in the brain.
Whether we have free will or not, it sure feels like it, and to me life is just fine if “I” am just an inside observer of my particular information processing capacity. It doesn’t scare me either way. Actually I believe Max Tegmark in his The Mathematical Universe book suggests that he believes that consciousness is what it feels like for information to be processed, which I found to be an interesting take. He has a better grasp of physics than any of us combined (although it’s still just his opinion of course)
Yeah, seems sad to me. Another of my favorite Einstein quotes:I tried walking through this, probably with him/her/them, already. Some people seem to think the universe is deterministic despite all evidence to the contrary.
Now who is being silly? 🤷♂️That's silly, if classical physics depends on quantum physics, all things depend on, and are influenced by, quantum effects.
That's like saying well, flight depends on pressure differentials, air currents, etc, and that stuff is all too big to be affected by individual atomic scale events, so classical physics doesn't apply to it.
Just because something is hard or impossible for us to calculate does not mean that it isn't deterministic. Better to see it as a indication of human limitations. 😄Counterpoint: three body problems are technically deterministic (by our definitions) but are virtually impossible to calculate due to the impossible specificity of starting conditions required to calculate it. And that's a pretty simple system, considering the rest of nature.
I prefer this hypothesis over any other explanation I've read. We are just code. DNA data storage banished any vestige of doubt I had remaining. Sugar-phosphate instead of ones and zeros.This is a simulation
I prefer this hypothesis over any other explanation I've read. We are just code. DNA data storage banished any vestige of doubt I had remaining. Sugar-phosphate instead of ones and zeros.
Not exactly "free."
No one is coming to save you...if want an amazing life, that's 100% on you.
I was saying that your statement that you're free to jump out of an airplane is a misstatement when I said "not exactly free." Saying you're free to do something suggests that a choice to do it isn't generally discouraged by whatever agencies are involved. That is not the case for jumping out of an airplane except if you're wearing a parachute and I know that isn't what you were thinking.Freedom of choice for how to choose to behave...not freedom from consequences! I read a quote recently that I really like, which went something along these lines:
Over the years, I've adopted the idea the true happiness requires taking 100% responsibility for our personal happiness in life. While we can't control everything that happens to us, we CAN choose how we react, which means that we can manage our consequences, whether or not we're personally responsible for what we're dealing with (ex. getting cancer, getting hit by a car in an accident, etc.). The most unhappy people I know are the ones who refuse to take any sort of personal responsibility over (1) their personal happiness, and (2) managing the consequences that are on their plate, regardless of the source of them.
We all exist within finite circumstances, which is why I like the concept of "moral agency", i.e. we get to choose to (1) change our situation (within the limitations of our means), and (2) decide how to act & react within our given circumstances. I was just surfing reddit & there were stories right next to each other about a guy who decided to shoot 14 people in Prague followed by another story about a guy who decided to donate his time to a local animal shelter by taking dogs for a walk on Christmas day because they didn't have anyone available to give them attention that day due to being short-staffed because of the holiday schedule. They both had their moral agency about how they chose to behave within their individual set of circumstances.
I've come to accept the fact that rejecting personal responsibility is simply living in denial (which we're all free to do! haha).