Do you believe Bernie would have won? I do.

[Victorian Gray]

If Bernie had won the primaries

 

[Jaskalas]

I know it's fashionable in conservative circles as of late, but don't do your credibility any favors by pretending you'd vote for a leftist.

I know it's fashionable in P&N to speak for others, hell I do it too.
I invite you to read up.

2012: Victory Tastes Sour
I haven't gotten around to making a 2016 post, as I find myself on uncertain ground. Looking for someone I can identify with. That has a lot to do with losing the stimulus argument, coming to understand economic liquidity, and Robert Reich's video reaching out and laying down facts behind hard truths already knew. Doubled down by Republican's own failures to have... a response... a plan... or anything really.

In that 2012 topic I proclaimed a simple truth, I only favored Republicans for one reason. In the past 4 years that reason has shattered.

Here's a preview of a topic I'll probably post in full detail later in the week.

Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67​

2016-11-12:

To compare:

 

[brycejones]

Bernie would have lost too, he's far to neo-con to have won.

Oh do please expound on the bolded.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Trump destroyed both parties. The GOP may won, but with an entirely new power coalition.

I can agree with that, at least if he holds his gains so far and picks up some new blood (and/or recovers the Republicans that didn't turn out for him). If Trump can continue suckering people, get Republicans on board with Trumpcare(tm), create tons of public infrastructure jobs, increasing employment not only with poor whites but also minorities, show people that he's not an evangelical, and somehow keep the economy humming all at the same time (that's the one he'll struggle with the most) out to 2020, I could imagine the modern equivalent of a Reagan-style 1984 landslide (where the swing states are; he'll obviously never take California or New York in a million years). Both parties have been fairly gridlocked and beholden to their special voting blocks, and Trump is a guy that could change things bigly there.

On the other hand, he could fail to deliver his promises to rural whites, anger minorities even further, get caught up in personal corruption scandals, tank the dollar as he attempts to "negotiate" the debt, and then be totally ousted in 2020 with a landslide defeat, while Republicans treat him long a really long and painful fever dream, keeping the exact same coalition demographics only much weaker and smaller.

 

[buckshot24]

Oh do please expound on the bolded.

Did I write "to", how embarrassing.

It was a joke.

 

[Jaskalas]

That would certainly explain why the Republicans now control the Senate, House and Presidency along with the majority of state governments.

Those losses occurred after you ran from single payer to give the public the Affordable Care Act.
It's not affordable, and it really pissed people off.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Those losses occurred after you ran from single payer to give the public the Affordable Care Act.
It's not affordable, and it really pissed people off.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, feel free.

 

[Jaskalas]

If it makes you feel better to believe that, feel free.

Did picking Hillary make you feel better?

 

[NostaSeronx]

Did picking Hillary make you feel better?

That user is not Unitedstatikztan. I did though, helping the recovery by voting the only First Lady to have a surplus, instead of a deficit. Merit above all else.

Trump is a failing business owner. So, no maybe his children if they recover the business, but not likely in this current geo-politcal climate. Hopefully, when it becomes a lot less cold and definitely no chance of it being hot.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Did picking Hillary make you feel better?

What did I pick Clinton for?

 

[Jaskalas]

What did I pick Clinton for?

Over Sanders. That's the topic, and this is what you originally responded to.

Hint, Bernie voters did not want Hillary. He beat expectations in the primary for a reason. Momentum is towards progressives.

I will stand for the idea that his platform is superior to what the old guard wanted from Hillary.
The 90s dynasty was not going to inspire voter turnout. A hate Trump campaign was the wrong campaign.
In 2020, and especially 2024, the American people need something inspiring and positive. Sander's platform.

I'm encouraging you to see this.

 

[agent00f]

You're the brilliant political mind. Why don't you tell me what socialism is?

Uh, "Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Sanders isn't even a socialist anyway, but a social democrat, which is capitalist with somewhat more social services than the US.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Over Sanders. That's the topic, and this is what you originally responded to.

I will stand for the idea that his platform is superior to what the old guard wanted from Hillary.
The 90s dynasty was not going to inspire voter turnout. A hate Trump campaign was the wrong campaign.
In 2020, and especially 2024, the American people need something inspiring and positive. Sander's platform.

I'm encouraging you to see this.

A) I haven't "picked" Clinton for anything over anyone.

B) And I encourage you to see what I originally stated:

"That would certainly explain why the Republicans now control the Senate, House and Presidency along with the majority of state governments."

That does not seem like a country moving towards progressives.

 

[agent00f]

I know it's fashionable in P&N to speak for others, hell I do it too.
I invite you to read up.

2012: Victory Tastes Sour
I haven't gotten around to making a 2016 post, as I find myself on uncertain ground. Looking for someone I can identify with. That has a lot to do with losing the stimulus argument, coming to understand economic liquidity, and Robert Reich's video reaching out and laying down facts behind hard truths already knew. Doubled down by Republican's own failures to have... a response... a plan... or anything really.

In that 2012 topic I proclaimed a simple truth, I only favored Republicans for one reason. In the past 4 years that reason has shattered.

Here's a preview of a topic I'll probably post in full detail later in the week.

Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67​

2016-11-12:

To compare:

What a hilarious site to put Clinton to the right of Trump to promote Sanders.

In related news, I pondered my own political motivations going forward, and it's likely I'll be voting republican nationally in the future sans trump. The only reason I bothered with the democrats is some naive sense of social obligation to do what's right for the country, and this election served to highlight that fellow citizens often don't feel the same. Time to actually follow game theory and serve self-interest instead of playing the sucker in prisoner's dilemma. The schadenfreude of the rust belt collapsing under republican rule would certainly be icing on the cake.

 

[kage69]

Trump destroyed both parties. The GOP may have won, but with an entirely new power coalition.

I don't know, I think Hillary and Debbie Wasserman Shultz deserve some credit there too. I don't expect the progressives to act like nothing happened going forward, even in lieu of the changes Sanders was able to make. Brazile hasn't exactly made anything better either. I think if the Dems don't experience a much needed degaussing we'll see them splinter, in which case I'll give Trump credit for helping end our 2 party system.

 

[yoddle]

I have to profess that I'm not happy Trump won. He's not the type that has the character/temperament I can aspire to or have children around me aspire to. Nope, this guy is vile and terrible.

But I also don't blame the blue collar workers who voted him into office. This is the ill of Democratic and Republican parties in recent times. Both party, ignored their plights. Took their votes and did nothing to help them.

Democrates professes to be a worker's party. I don't see them show any sympathy and concern for these workers who has lost jobs left and right due to globalization perhaps immigration. Democrates like Hillary been deep in the pockets of the rich. Cutting their taxes to next to nothing while average worker loosing their jobs and paying 20-30% of taxes while trying to feed their family. Riches has the power to control congress and cut their taxes, protect their jobs/companies with legislation. Factory workers are powerless, what can they do other than vote to get their issues heard?

I think Democratic party needs to nominate someone who truly cares about the plights of the average people, not just paying lip service to take their vote, then go back and collude with the riches to hand who gets the actual favors.

In that, Sander's are much more understanding of the problems of average people, he said that Democratic party is for the workers, always has been. Trades been hurting them over the years, said we need to curtail unfair trades, tariff the worst offenders if necessary to protect our workers.

I think the Democratic party needs to be refocused, and remade with a new set of leaders who understand this. Too many of these current party leaders with one hand in the pocket of the rich guy. They should be immediately kicked out and replaced. They don't deserve people's votes.

 

[JSt0rm]

he would of won. The dems own this trump thing because they actively worked against him for hillary.

 

[Kazukian]

he would of won. The dems own this trump thing because they actively worked against him for hillary.

Agreed, I would have voted for Bernie, everyone screamed "Socialist" but the reality is we've had socialist programs in place and working for decades.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Sad that no one realized the elephant in his rallies. A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for Bernie Sanders. That hinted that he was okay with striving for a cabinet position(Over-secretary of Veterans Affairs, Health and Welfare, and Education) or staying a senator(Doing exactly the cabinet things).

 

[blankslate]

Is Sanders a great politician? Certainly not as good as Trump either.

He's not a great politician... but he is the one most likely to have done what he would've he said and said what he would have done... and those things are what would've made independents break for him if he was the candidate. And despite the cries of misogynists or Bernie-Bros from establishment-Justice-apologists he would've also gotten the progressive base energized... something that Clinton and her business as usual failed to do based on the amount of votes democrats got for PotUS this year compared to 2012 and 2008.

Maybe he won't be the right candidate for the tone of the election in 2020 but he was for 2016 and the DNC and their fvcking apologists fvcked it up for the rest of us for 4+ years (maybe decades depending on the SCOTUS)


________________

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Agreed, I would have voted for Bernie, everyone screamed "Socialist" but the reality is we've had socialist programs in place and working for decades.

They didn't even have to give Sanders the win; if Clinton just decided to not honor her quid pro quo for Kaine and give Sanders VP, I bet that could have been enough. But nope, it was decided well in advance how everything would go, no concessions to anyone not deep in the party workings.

 

[Sonikku]

Bernie would not have lost the rust belt. He would have had a more enthusiastic vote among even millennials.

 

[Kazukian]

Bernie would not have lost the rust belt. He would have had a more enthusiastic vote among even millennials.

This. Bill Clinton wanted the campaign to pay more attention to the rust belt and the campaign laughed at him.

 

[khon]

Not only would he have won, he would have won in a landslide. There was a Trump vs Sanders poll done two days before the election, which showed Sanders up by 12 points, and all the Trump vs Sanders polls during the primaries showed the same thing.

Sanders was clearly the better candidate, but the Democratic establishment wanted to keep money in politics, so they did everything they could to shut him out, and the end result is a Trump presidency.

 

[Arachnotronic]

This. Bill Clinton wanted the campaign to pay more attention to the rust belt and the campaign laughed at him.

Yep. I would be stunned if any of the jokers who managed HRC's campaign ever manage any campaigns of significance again. The incompetence and arrogance behind these decisions was truly baffling, ignoring advice from a highly successful and well-liked two term president.