Do you believe in American exceptionalism?

[norseamd]

Disagree with the idea of India not being a superpower in the 21st century.

 

[werepossum]

I do believe in American exceptionalism, but I also believe it's largely over. We've lost our manufacturing base and gone from a nation that exports to a nation that imports on credit, getting eternally farther in debt without much hope (and no planning) on ever again becoming solvent. We still have our freedom of speech largely intact, and our right to bear arms is still largely intact, but both are under pressure continuously.

 

[Orignal Earl]

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

 

[nickqt]

I do believe in American exceptionalism, but I also believe it's largely over. We've lost our manufacturing base and gone from a nation that exports to a nation that imports on credit, getting eternally farther in debt without much hope (and no planning) on ever again becoming solvent. We still have our freedom of speech largely intact, and our right to bear arms is still largely intact, but both are under pressure continuously.

The debt is an accounting column, full stop. It has never affected your life.

This country will remain solvent as long as it isn't forced by idiots to not pay its debts as a political stunt.

 

[mindmajick]

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Acceptable response

 

[piasabird]

There are certain ideals that the USA is founded upon. Many of these ideals we only have today because people were willing to fight and die for them. You could say the rest of the world's democracy can be traced back to the founding of the United States. Some of these ideals may have existed in other countries, but in other forms. Some believe that America is a precious land which is blessed by God.

Feel free to express your opinion.

 

[MongGrel]

Companies moving their manufacturing offshore and killing their middle class does not make a country exceptional.

Seems more like the Fall of Rome or something these days.

 

[piasabird]

Prophesy about America (Continent or continents)

Book of Mormon: 2 Nephi 1:5-9
5 But, said he, notwithstanding our afflictions, we have obtained a land of promise, a land which is choice above all other lands; a land which the Lord God hath covenanted with me should be a land for the inheritance of my seed. Yea, the Lord hath covenanted this land unto me, and to my children forever, and also all those who should be led out of other countries by the hand of the Lord.

6 Wherefore, I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.

7 Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity; if so, it shall be because of iniquity; for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever.

8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. And if it so be that they shall keep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their inheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever.

 

[Orignal Earl]

There are certain ideals that the USA is founded upon. Many of these ideals we only have today because people were willing to fight and die for them. You could say the rest of the world's democracy can be traced back to the founding of the United States. Some of these ideals may have existed in other countries, but in other forms. Some believe that America is a precious land which is blessed by God.

Feel free to express your opinion.

God built the rest of the world so Americans know how good they got it

 

[norseamd]

There are certain ideals that the USA is founded upon. Many of these ideals we only have today because people were willing to fight and die for them. You could say the rest of the world's democracy can be traced back to the founding of the United States. Some of these ideals may have existed in other countries, but in other forms. Some believe that America is a precious land which is blessed by God.

Feel free to express your opinion.

You could argue that the democracies of today trace their roots back to the Magna Carta and that includes America.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There are certain ideals that the USA is founded upon. Many of these ideals we only have today because people were willing to fight and die for them. You could say the rest of the world's democracy can be traced back to the founding of the United States. Some of these ideals may have existed in other countries, but in other forms. Some believe that America is a precious land which is blessed by God.

Feel free to express your opinion.

Yes, you could say that, but you'd be incorrect.

 

[Darwin333]

I would question how the most criminal country in the history of the world could be exceptional at anything but locking people up?

 

[DigDog]

i've lived, at different times, in amsterdam, cannes, rome (about half my life), milan, cremona, london, brighton, boston, long island, new york, and i'm now in scotland. plus many other places ive "visited" for extended periods, say, 1 month or more, too many to list. i've very rarely met people who have travelled as much as i have.

just outside rome there's quite a few "sex discos", places where people go to simply fuck, with anyone. sexual frustration does tend to throw out some extreme opposites, but that's the exception that confirms the rule. and i've been far richer and independent than many other people of my age, and getting laid was still more drama than fun.

the north of europe (from the netherlands on up) is by far more socially liberated than the rest, and yes, here in the UK birds do like a shag in the loo of the walkabout, but there is still no comparison to the social individualism you get in the US.

 

[mindmajick]

Do we base "exceptional" on happiness?

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-world-happiness-report-2015-2015-4

 

[blastingcap]

Do we base "exceptional" on happiness?

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-world-happiness-report-2015-2015-4

Any list with Venezuela so high at no. 23 loses all credibility with me.

Also you are arguably changing the goalposts from OP if you want to redefine exceptionalism.

 

[BurnItDwn]

none of Americas greatness is inherent. America's greatness was earned through blood, sweat, and tears.

And over the last 35 years, through blood sweat and tears , consolidation, technology, and globalization have reduced America the beautiful to a get rich quick scam in which only the rich qualify.

 

[mindmajick]

Any list with Venezuela so high at no. 23 loses all credibility with me.

Also you are changing the goalposts from OP if you want to redefine exceptionalism.

I figured since i was the OP I'm allowed

Just figured I'd change up the discussion a bit since I've gotten such great feedback on how exceptionalism is defined.

I know nothing of Venezuela so cannot comment on that.

This is nothing more than a learning exercise. I always keep my mind open.

 

[sandorski]

Any list with Venezuela so high at no. 23 loses all credibility with me.

Also you are arguably changing the goalposts from OP if you want to redefine exceptionalism.

Why? I'm not saying that it is #23 in some objective sense, but depending on the limitations of the data(such as when it was gathered) it could very well be. "Happiness", after all, is not a simple calculation, but a complex mix of variables. Venezuelans at the time this data was collected could have been ecstatically filled with Hope for the future, not knowing that the shit was going to hit the fan.


So what I'm saying is, to throw out this list due to 1 data point is really kinda short sighted and really appears to be an attempt to dismiss any contrary data to ones preconceived notions.

 

[mammador]

Better how?

Militarily? Yes.

Economically? In terms of GDP size, yes (not for long though). GDP per capita, no, though still in the upper percentiles. UN HDI rating, same as GDP per capita. Income inequality? Low in advanced economy terms.

Race relations? Worst in the developed world.

Gender relations? Good, but not as good as Europe or its little brother to the north.

International perception? Still bad. Improved a bit once Obama got elected, has fallen now ISIS have emerged.

And the USA only became a superpower because of its area and values. But then most Western cultures have a morality of freedom and enterprise, the USA is not unique in that regard. USA was exceptional from say 1945-2000. Then in most areas it really was the best country in the world.

 

[blastingcap]

Race relations? Worst in the developed world

I dunno, I can think of at least a few OECD countries that could be worse: France, Turkey, and Israel...

 

[norseamd]

Better how?

Militarily? Yes.

Economically? In terms of GDP size, yes (not for long though). GDP per capita, no, though still in the upper percentiles. UN HDI rating, same as GDP per capita. Income inequality? Low in advanced economy terms.

This is true as far as I can tell.

Race relations? Worst in the developed world.

Well not sure taht I would agree wit this actually. Like blastingcap said I think the countries below have just as bad of problems if not worse actually and you can add the South Africans and Australians to that list.

I dunno, I can think of at least a few OECD countries that could be worse: France, Turkey, and Israel...

Gender relations? Good, but not as good as Europe or its little brother to the north.

Umm sure? By little brother did you mean the Canadians or the Scandinavians?

Well overall I would say gender problems are actually not that bad in America but there are other areas that are more advanced just like you said yourself.

International perception? Still bad. Improved a bit once Obama got elected, has fallen now ISIS have emerged.

And how would you say the rest of the world views Obama actually? Seems to me that many foreigners view Obama the same way as Democrats in that he is a dishonest hypocritical bullshit conster who is just the less worse possibility of the available presidential candidates.

And the USA only became a superpower because of its area and values. But then most Western cultures have a morality of freedom and enterprise, the USA is not unique in that regard. USA was exceptional from say 1945-2000. Then in most areas it really was the best country in the world.

Not sure I would say the US has had any distinctness or exceptionalism in the timeframe of 1945 to 2000. I will say however that I think America had some notable distinctness from 1776 to 1918 although the Frenchmen in certain eras were just as exceptional as the Americans if not even more notable with their ideas and moralities.. However Even at the end of the 19th century I think there many similarities between Western European countries especially after the Francias Revolution. The liberalization of society in the 1960s must also have had some major effects on Western European societies. Also consider that Liberalism, Humanism, and Enlightenment were all world intellectual phenomena that America was only notable in that a government was made for those ideas instead of just individuals believing or practicing those ideas in their lives or even just talking about them at taverns or inns while drinking some beer.