Do you believe that Islam and its followers are a threat to the world?

[SlickSnake]

Nutters of any religious persuasion are a threat to the civilized world.

Spot on. That's my take on it.

And you other religious nutters voting no, obviously aren't even worth my time to even argue about it. Who in their sane right mind really gives a crap what misguided branch of Islam thinks about what when they are all fairy tale BS in the first place? This argument about good and bad Islam is about as relevant to sane people as which flavor of Christianity is the best.

If all religions are all based on fanciful pie in the sky fabrications, distortions and misinterpretations of history and out right intentional LIES, does it really matter which one is the best or the least insane version of a religion?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Can you link us up to some of those evangelists asking their followers anywhere in the world to kill anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs?

False equivalence FTL.

The false equivalence is all of you who are holding ISIS tweets as examples of Islam

 

[PokerGuy]

If all religions are all based on fanciful pie in the sky fabrications, distortions and misinterpretations of history and out right intentional LIES, does it really matter which one is the best or the least insane version of a religion?

Actually, yes, it does matter. I don't care what people want to believe, but once they start wanting to coerce others into sharing their beliefs or belief systems, I have a problem with it. Some "flavors" of religion don't bother anyone else, they live their lives and have their faith, while others seek to convert people by any means (including violence) and seek to harm those who might disagree with them.

That's a huge difference in my book. Right now we all know who the real crazies are, but political correctness gets in the way of calling a spade a spade, like obummer saying isis is not islamic.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Actually, yes, it does matter. I don't care what people want to believe, but once they start wanting to coerce others into sharing their beliefs or belief systems, I have a problem with it. Some "flavors" of religion don't bother anyone else, they live their lives and have their faith, while others seek to convert people by any means (including violence) and seek to harm those who might disagree with them.

That's a huge difference in my book. Right now we all know who the real crazies are, but political correctness gets in the way of calling a spade a spade, like obummer saying isis is not islamic.

Forcing people to convert to a religion just does not work, the only way to do it is to appear kind generous etc
Yes some religions like to use a fear method also, like those guys on my TV

In Islam, (see dawah and Islamic missionary activity) inviting people to the religion is a meritorious activity. The Qur'an states "Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." (Al-Baqarah, 2:256) which is taken by Muslim scholars that force is not to be used to convert someone to Islam.

You can check out the champions of Proselytism in this link also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism#Islam

 

[Retro Rob]

That's a huge difference in my book. Right now we all know who the real crazies are, but political correctness gets in the way of calling a spade a spade, like obummer saying isis is not islamic.

I would think he would mean that ISIS doesn't represent the true tenets of Islam (albiet, I don't know what those tenets actually are) much like a Christian Fundamentalist extremist fringe group doesn't represent the true tenents of mainstream Christianity.

 

[Jaskalas]

Thing is, if people think Islam is nothing but violence and beheadings...people who want violence and beheadings will flock to it, join up with like minded individuals and claim the symbol of Islam for themselves. Whatever version of Islam you hold becomes pale in comparison to their momentous, violent push. The media then backs their version thereby sidelining you even more.

Peaceful followers have little to no voice. The American people don't know them. Thus this poll result, shameful as it is, reflects how Islam has been communicated. And perception IS reality far as anyone is concerned.

If Islam is a threat then how shall we respond? Some will say eliminate. Others say deport by force. No solution is good if the basic premise is "Us VS Them". We are charted onto a course for disaster so long as the American people believe that Islam = Terrorism.

How do we turn that around, how do we give voice to good Muslims?

 

[inf1nity]

Removed 'civilized' from the title. These folks are a threat to the whole planet, not just non-Muslim countries.

 

[Jaskalas]

Removed 'civilized' from the title. These folks are a threat to the whole planet, not just non-Muslim countries.

Whose "These folks"? Poll only specifies Islam, Muslims in general.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The American people don't know them. Thus this poll result, shameful as it is, reflects how Islam has been communicated.

I don't think that poll reflects what the American people feel at all.
It shows what a group of American IT guys feel. The same group polled themselves as 84% loners.
You might get at the most 10% of Americans in general who are like that
That poll was taken in OT where most posters feel the P&N crowd is a bunch of crazies
If you go over to reddit the hysteria is no where near the same as here

 

[SlickSnake]

I don't think that poll reflects what the American people feel at all.
It shows what a group of American IT guys feel. The same group polled themselves as 84% loners.
You might get at the most 10% of Americans in general who are like that
That poll was taken in OT where most posters feel the P&N crowd is a bunch of crazies
If you go over to reddit the hysteria is no where near the same as here

And then you dared to mention Reddit, one of the great unwashed and barely moderated chat sewers of humanity. Nicely done. You simply couldn't have undermined your own opinions more if you tried.

 

[Orignal Earl]

And then you dared to mention Reddit, one of the great unwashed and barely moderated chat sewers of humanity. Nicely done. You simply couldn't have undermined your own opinions more if you tried.

I actually thought about putting the reddit remark in there.
I figured since most peeps here wouldn't go outside and meet people the best I could offer was another website that seems to have a much larger demo graph to it.
I don't know which sub reddit of out the hundred or so you are referring to, yes there is some crazy ones, but if you stick to the front page and say news and worldnews you should do fine

 

[inf1nity]

Whose "These folks"? Poll only specifics Islam, Muslims in general.

Here's the deal. I don't believe extremism can thrive in a society/community unless it receives support from a large section of the society. The jihadists need men willing to kill and die for their cause. And these jihadists come from the so called 'peaceful and moderate' Muslims.

My opinion is that the 'moderate' muslims may not blow up bombs or kill people themselves, but they do agree with the ideas of jihad/caliphate etc.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Here's the deal. I don't believe extremism can thrive in a society/community unless it receives support from a large section of the society. The jihadists need men willing to kill and die for their cause. And these jihadists come from the so called 'peaceful and moderate' Muslims.

My opinion is that the 'moderate' muslims may not blow up bombs or kill people themselves, but they do agree with the ideas of jihad/caliphate etc.

So we are to assume that you support caste and Indian terrorism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hindu_terrorism

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/19/india-hindu-terrorism-threat

 

[inf1nity]

So we are to assume that you support caste and Indian terrorism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hindu_terrorism

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/19/india-hindu-terrorism-threat

Ahem.

The neutrality of this article is disputed.

However, in some cases the motivation for the acts has not been clearly determined,[1] and in others it has been determined to be unrelated to Hindu nationalism.

Let me guess, you missed these parts right?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Ahem.





Let me guess, you missed these parts right?

Did you miss all the other articles about Hindu terrorism?
Are you denying that it exists?
Caste doesn't exist?
That's some serious nationalism right there

edit- I don't think Hindu terrorism revolves around Hinduism, just like it don't around Islam.
Your the one with that problem

 

[alzan]

Yes, it is interesting.

But...I think there is no single common denominator that we can point to really.

Even good people who'd never harm a soul and aren't religious can be put in a situation in which they could potentially become murderers.

All that is needed is the mindset, and opportunity.

That's closer to the point I had originally tried to make off of soulcougher's post. A lot of violent crimes, are crimes of passion. Remove any barrier to those passions, even if that barrier is faith, and the person is now in a position of giving in to those passions.

 

[Retro Rob]

BTW, I just noticed your Tyson quote and I love it. Although I think perhaps it implies something that you haven't considered.

Like what?

 

[Whiskey16]

If somebody disagrees with you, after we wade through the bile that spews forth from your mouth...then we have to decide if those who disagree with you are promoting genocide or stormfront...lol

You, lying, misrepresenting, trolling, fuck. The Stormfront card only comes out when justifiably applicable:

What percentage of those who don't go out bombing and beheading are afflicted with this terrible disease (Islam)?

Jews were once inexcusably considered to be a 'disease' as well. As a Jewish Pole, you should be intimately familiar with such vile history, but you lack the honest integrity to relate a spade a spade.

I will repeat:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay before you guys start getting your Do you believe that people should be wary of muslims and place checks on their ever increasing populations?

inf1nity, regardless of your lame attempt to incept such a validated charge with your opening, that is the crunch of your thread and poll.

"BE WARY OF MUSLIMS AND PLACE CHECKS ON THEIR EVER INCREASING POPULATIONS"

What "checks" on a population? How, you Nazi FUCK, may you manage that banner for supremacist bigotry? You are outright calling for genocide:

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
..
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

All too commonly expected and experienced to see another member of the P&N incite generalised hatred against a targeted group and call for their genocide. Making the effort to turn this site into Stormfront.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It does say something quite vile about AnandTech's P&N where trolls such as
inf1nity (has he even returned to this thread?) can, without official repudiation, publish threads to promote explicitly generalised hatred against members of a targeted group (Muslims), and have a free pass to incite controls against an increase in their population (genocide). A relation to Stormfront becomes quite rationally justified. If this is how the powers that be wish to present their site to be then they be freely judged.

JEDIYoda, it's of little surprise that the OP trolled you in to justify a defence against his vilification of Muslims and to "check their increasing population.." You would've made good little brownshirt Nazi....Oh, but except that you are Jewish, as me. Some can learn from history and vow not to permit its repetition.

 

[inachu]

If they can not call you names then they call you a liar.
If they can not call you a liar then you are a self hater.
If they can not call you anti*putwhatevergroupORracehere." then they call you a liberal.
If they can not call you a liberal then they think you are still under 14 years of age.
If they can not call you out on your age then they get their friends to hound you.
If they can not get their friends to hound you for going against the grain then they call you a tin foil hat monkey

That is the modus operandi of warmongers.

 

[raildogg]

You think "modern warfare" is any more horrible than good "old fashioned" warfare? War is war, and coming up with better more effective ways to kill your enemies is hardly limited to the western world.



Sorry, that's just plain bullshit. Those things don't have any bearing on a country or people being civilized or not.

War is war, that is true. But when war can end the entire world many times over, then that's on a whole different level. This is what the Western world has brought to the world. These peace loving and civilized people.

So a country arming itself to the teeth does not mean it is not civilized?

What is being civilized then? Having a college education? Being taught at a so-called prestigious Western style university? Being eloquent and yet holding a dagger behind your back like the Westerners do?

The Western world plays a good game at looking so-called civilized and educated; yet, take away that whole phony facade and they are no better than the Muslim masses they point fingers at. They just know how to dress themselves up (literally and figuratively).

But whatever makes you feel better. Continue looking down on other people. Calling them "uncivilized." I guess that's what some need to do to make themselves feel better.

 

[raildogg]

Ahem.





Let me guess, you missed these parts right?

When do you live like a Hindu? Or is it only a name just like Christians?

Put on a good show but never follow a thing you espouse.

 

[raildogg]

Did you miss all the other articles about Hindu terrorism?
Are you denying that it exists?
Caste doesn't exist?
That's some serious nationalism right there

edit- I don't think Hindu terrorism revolves around Hinduism, just like it don't around Islam.
Your the one with that problem

Sigh.

Hindus, Muslims, Christians, etc. are all a bunch of phonies who wear the garb but don't follow a single thing. They preach all day long about being a Hindu, Muslim or Christian but they don't act like it.

So yes, the so-called "Hindu" terrorists are not Hindus at all. They just wear the garb. Just like the so-called "Muslim" terrorists. Or the Christian terrorists of the past that killed people in mass.

 

[raildogg]

First of all, i don't think calling Islam a threat is bigotry. It is my opinion. If you disgree with it, fine, but that doesn't make it bigotry.

As far as the the part about racism. I used the the term 'racism' as a general word to refer to hatred against certain groups. The groups need not be race based.

So how did you come to believe all this? How did you come to believe that the evil Muslims are out to destroy the world? It seems like it's very important for you to share these views.

How are the Muslims any different from anyone else? Are they any more selfish or greedy than anyone else? I definitely don't think so. Are they looking out for themselves? Yes, just like you and me and everyone else. We only care about ourselves and our interests. Everything else takes a backseat.

 

[inf1nity]

inf1nity, regardless of your lame attempt to incept such a validated charge with your opening, that is the crunch of your thread and poll.

"BE WARY OF MUSLIMS AND PLACE CHECKS ON THEIR EVER INCREASING POPULATIONS"

What "checks" on a population? How, you Nazi FUCK, may you manage that banner for supremacist bigotry? You are outright calling for genocide:

All too commonly expected and experienced to see another member of the P&N incite generalised hatred against a targeted group and call for their genocide. Making the effort to turn this site into Stormfront.

When i said "place checks on their population, i meant that immigration from Muslim countries should be restricted or even banned altogether. Unsurprisingly, you twisted this into an appeal for genocide.

Strawman arguments. The left's age old weapon.

inf1nity (has he even returned to this thread?) ... more braindead ramble.

And yes, i have returned to this thread multiple times. Perhaps if you wiped off the froth from your face you'll be able to see better. I read your first post in this thread. I wasn't going to respond to it, since it wasn't anything other than the ravings of a lunatic. I won't respond to any further arguments from you, just clearing up the whole 'genocide' accusation.

Oh and stop copy pasting the same shit arguments in every thread. It makes you come across as a retard.

 

[inf1nity]

Did you miss all the other articles about Hindu terrorism?
Are you denying that it exists?
Caste doesn't exist?
That's some serious nationalism right there

edit- I don't think Hindu terrorism revolves around Hinduism, just like it don't around Islam.
Your the one with that problem

First of all I agree that the caste system is a serious problem in Indian society. No arguments here.

As far as Hindu terrorism, that is nothing but a reaction to Islamic terrorism. Muslim terrorists attack first, then Hindus respond, it is called Hindu terrorism. I have talked about this in the past. All those links you posted above, none of them were unprovoked attacks. Not justifying the acts of terrorism, but when you compare those incidents to the acts of Islamic terrorism, it is a very tiny number.