Do you believe that Israel is America's friend??

[0roo0roo]

actually, its not illegal by un resolution 242. and the palestinians were occupied by jordan and egypt before, but not being jews, they were allowed to do it in relative peace

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
actually, its not illegal by un resolution 242. and the palestinians were occupied by jordan and egypt before, but not being jews, they were allowed to do it in relative peace

I'm not going to go into the argument of Resolution 242 again but I was referring to the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Walleye
we gave them the nukes.... jeez... they are our allies. that's no secret. they're the only democracy in the middle east, too.

listen up kiddo. go look @ a map. see "Turkey"? Good. Now stfu.

 

[Regs]

And so does Pakistan. But they help us fight off the terrorists, believe it or not. If we would of put them on the
"Axis for Evil", I doubt they'll help us any. They know that if they stop helping us, they get put on the crap list. And we know that if we accuse them and threaten them, they'll stop helping us. Which will be devastating to us on the war on terror, because as we know, we don't have many "friends" in middle eastern countries that have the connections to help.

All nations play the hand that their dealt with.

 

[Turkish]

Please everyone, just ignore Walleye. He has proven how much of a dumbass he is, for over a million times, or billion times we shall call it.

Cliff Notes: Walleye = dumbass.

 

[brigden]

Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

 

[Sunner]

0roo0roo, Im not gonna go into the Israel/Paletine problem, I just felt the need to give my oppinion on this little piece that you posted:
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/global/2003/0721/017.html.

I thought that Forbes was a serious magazone, but that little piece sure changed that, I just can't see how any halfdecently serious mag would publish tripe like that.
Much like some Europeans who do indeed hate the US for no particular reason other than just hate, this Paul Johnson individual clearly either knows very little about what he's talking about, or he's one of the cultural racists he's writing about, only looking at it from the other side of the fence.

People like him are a major part of the problem, it doesn't matter if they're Europeans or Americans.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: brigden
Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

you could have saved yourself some time and just said it straight.

the jews control america.

people never tire of that one huh.

tin foil hat slip off?

conspiracy...conspiracy... incredibly popular in the middle east too!


as for antiamericanism... well obviously, blame the top dog, blame the highly visible top dog. whenever someone needs a scape goat, america is quite convenient, esp with endless variations of conspiracies. blame the man!

wonderful for diverting attention, avoiding responsibility, and now without the ussr, we are the only "man". scape goats have always conveniently existed to cover for all human failings.

just look what happens when you are the top dog. you still gotta find scape goats. here in america we have fat people sueing mcdonalds because they are fat

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: brigden
Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

you could have saved yourself some time and just said it straight.

the jews control america.

people never tire of that one huh.

tin foil hat slip off?

conspiracy...conspiracy... incredibly popular in the middle east too!


as for antiamericanism... well obviously, blame the top dog, blame the highly visible top dog. whenever someone needs a scape goat, america is quite convenient, esp with endless variations of conspiracies. blame the man!

wonderful for diverting attention, avoiding responsibility, and now without the ussr, we are the only "man". scape goats have always conveniently existed to cover for all human failings.

just look what happens when you are the top dog. you still gotta find scape goats. here in america we have fat people sueing mcdonalds because they are fat

It's amusing coming from a racist who thinks all Palestinians are guilty, to them life is cheap not precious, and all Palestinian mothers like to watch their kids die....talk about tin foil hat.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Siwy

It's amusing coming from a racist who thinks all Palestinians are guilty, to them life is cheap not precious, and all Palestinian mothers like to watch their kids die....talk about tin foil hat.

1) Lets please stop the name calling.

2) For most people, life is not cheap. It is the extremists and those that allow themselves to be brainwashed that are that way.

3) Most mothers do not want they children to die. Those that accept the fact are most likely to have been exposed to the situation that accepts revenge at any cost for a previous situation.

4) There are those extremists that will take a bad situation and manipulate those affected to the extremists own aim/benifit. When a person is vulnerable in grief/despair, they are suceptable to corruption by outside influences. Re-enforcement of the memory of the original situation allows the resentment/hatred to be grown to the level where rational experience/thought can no longer prevail.

 

[Zebo]

Freind? I guess if you call a browbeaten house wives husband a firend.

America is israels bitch plan and simple.


Wait till this report comes out it will blow sky high what traitors they are.Text.. Only thing we've been doing since 9-11 is what israel wants to our own demise. Iraqis now even love killing americans.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Freind? I guess if you call a browbeaten house wives husband a firend.

America is israels bitch plan and simple.

yes.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Freind? I guess if you call a browbeaten house wives husband a firend.

America is israels bitch plan and simple.


Wait till this report comes out it will blow sky high what traitors they are.Text.. Only thing we've been doing since 9-11 is what israel wants to our own demise. Iraqis now even love killing americans.

The link implies that additional information is available. However, unless you purchase the book (self promotion by the web site), you have no idea what information is being talked about regarding Mossad. One link states that the information was provide to the US agencies by the Mossad well before 9/11. What was done with it is beyond the Mossad control.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Zebo
Freind? I guess if you call a browbeaten house wives husband a firend.

America is israels bitch plan and simple.


Wait till this report comes out it will blow sky high what traitors they are.Text.. Only thing we've been doing since 9-11 is what israel wants to our own demise. Iraqis now even love killing americans.

The link implies that additional information is available. However, unless you purchase the book (self promotion by the web site), you have no idea what information is being talked about regarding Mossad. One link states that the information was provide to the US agencies by the Mossad well before 9/11. What was done with it is beyond the Mossad control.

I'm promoting the kean report and thouht he was too..speculating and providing some justification for his speculation that israel will be shown to be complict.

As for his promotion Justins gotta eat..ther's no ads on his site and it's all major news sources he links to in his essays.. And before you say he's a liberal crack pot, hardly, mans right of buchanan (i mean von misis institute scholar)


More fun with israel:

In fact, on Oct. 3, 2001, when you barked at a Tel Aviv Cabinet meeting, according to Israel Radio, (Kol Yisrael): "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Well, you did go a little overboard on that one. Even if you're right about the Jews controlling America, I still think it was a real stretch to say, "the Americans know it." I think if they did know it, you, and the other bad Zionists, too, would be sent to your rooms, and forbidden to watch the "Jerry Springer TV Show!"

Text

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Siwy

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Well that is a typical statement made by a clue less bigot, isn't it? Nothing new coming out of your bigot mouth. I don't think racism and bigotry is accepted on these forums, I will contact administrators just to make sure.

the official plo charter supports terrorism to achieve their goals. it has never been changed. more then 80% of palestinians polled generally support attacks against civilians, and well almost 60% support them even after a state is born. these are a people were mothers go on tv and radio and share how proud they are of their sons for killing others. this is a people where their leaders wife who lives in luxury says the same thing. it is the palestinians who dance in the street when 9/11 happened, it is they who glorify murder in all their forms of media, it is their official religious leaders who incite violence. In the IDF they teach of past mistakes where civilians were killed in order to prevent such mistakes from happening again, their official policy is to spare civilians when possible. the palestinians simply glorify murder, and its just that simple. stop living in your fantasy. perhaps you should contact the administrators to help you take off your binders. you are obviously blind to reality. the racism is readily apparent on your side, where multiple users have accused me of being a jew, incist i must be a jew. to better hate me of course.

and stop pretending some desperation is creating terrorists. suicide bombers in iraq alone should rid you of that notion. the years and years of horrible occupation by uS troops have created terrorism! bullsh*t. its callled fanatsism, and it doesn't thrive on reason.

such are people like you, always finding things personal. its always one of you that starts with personal attacks. its not surprising.

and the whole world? hardly. most of the world simply doesn't care, and doesn't care to make opec countries angry. how do you think arab countries get away with their attrocities and inhumanity anyways. where women arent even allowed to drive in some. israeli arabs have more democratic rights then most arabs in the arab world.

The fact is that Israel has been illegally occupying Palestinian land since 1967. Which is the root of the Palestinian terrorism. You can try to draw parallels between terrorism in Iraq or even UK and Greece for that matter but the only similarity is the end result not the cause.

Chief Rabbi in Britain, Jonathan Sacks summarizes it nicely in the Guardian Unlimited interview:
"There are things that happen on a daily basis which make me feel very uncomfortable as a Jew." He was "profoundly shocked" by reports of smiling Israeli soldiers posing for a photograph with the corpse of a slain Palestinian. "There is no question that this kind of prolonged conflict, together with the absence of hope, generates hatreds and insensitivities that in the long run are corrupting to a culture."

Who said it was Palestinian land?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Siwy

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: brigden
Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

you could have saved yourself some time and just said it straight.

the jews control america.

people never tire of that one huh.

tin foil hat slip off?

conspiracy...conspiracy... incredibly popular in the middle east too!


as for antiamericanism... well obviously, blame the top dog, blame the highly visible top dog. whenever someone needs a scape goat, america is quite convenient, esp with endless variations of conspiracies. blame the man!

wonderful for diverting attention, avoiding responsibility, and now without the ussr, we are the only "man". scape goats have always conveniently existed to cover for all human failings.

just look what happens when you are the top dog. you still gotta find scape goats. here in america we have fat people sueing mcdonalds because they are fat

It's amusing coming from a racist who thinks all Palestinians are guilty, to them life is cheap not precious, and all Palestinian mothers like to watch their kids die....talk about tin foil hat.

thats right, there were no racists in nazi germany. i'm sure there were exceptions.. but don't be niave. its not me that puts palestinian mothers on tv bragging about their dead sons. i didn't put a gun to arafats wife and force her to boast about how she'd be proud if her son became a mass murderer.





your the racist with your conspiracy theories about how the jews control america, and how the jews were behind 9/11.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Zebo
Freind? I guess if you call a browbeaten house wives husband a firend.

America is israels bitch plan and simple.


Wait till this report comes out it will blow sky high what traitors they are.Text.. Only thing we've been doing since 9-11 is what israel wants to our own demise. Iraqis now even love killing americans.

The link implies that additional information is available. However, unless you purchase the book (self promotion by the web site), you have no idea what information is being talked about regarding Mossad. One link states that the information was provide to the US agencies by the Mossad well before 9/11. What was done with it is beyond the Mossad control.

I'm promoting the kean report and thouht he was too..speculating and providing some justification for his speculation that israel will be shown to be complict.

As for his promotion Justins gotta eat..ther's no ads on his site and it's all major news sources he links to in his essays.. And before you say he's a liberal crack pot, hardly, mans right of buchanan (i mean von misis institute scholar)


More fun with israel:

In fact, on Oct. 3, 2001, when you barked at a Tel Aviv Cabinet meeting, according to Israel Radio, (Kol Yisrael): "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Well, you did go a little overboard on that one. Even if you're right about the Jews controlling America, I still think it was a real stretch to say, "the Americans know it." I think if they did know it, you, and the other bad Zionists, too, would be sent to your rooms, and forbidden to watch the "Jerry Springer TV Show!"

Text

aren't you the disengeuous little bastard. it was said in jest.

now your taking a page from ann coulter and taking things out of context. wonderful!

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: brigden
Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

i found you a friend.


"Your defeat, your loss of empire, your poverty, your humiliation ? it?s not your fault! It?s the fault of ... the Jews! It?s their fault. They control everything, they control the banks, they control the world! Your defeat and humiliation is a Jewish plot to destroy you! Kill them all!"

i'm sure you know who he is.

hitler.

 

[replicator]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: brigden
Wow.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't need to - Walleye, you are retarded beyond words. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

American interests with Israel have little to do with the fact that it's a democratic state, and everything to do with the fact that it's a Jewish democratic state. The entire Middle East could be democratic and it wouldn't change a thing.

It should be your concern, and every American's for that matter, as to how an ethnocentric, religious group which comprises less than three percent of the population has become a leading factor in American politics. The Zionist lobbyists are among the most powerful forces in the United States. Our relationship to the country of Israel is directly related to their efforts and little else.

There is plenty of material available, I suggest you start with Pitman Buck Jr.'s "American Freedom and Zionist Power."

Open your eyes, boy.

i found you a friend.


"Your defeat, your loss of empire, your poverty, your humiliation ? it?s not your fault! It?s the fault of ... the Jews! It?s their fault. They control everything, they control the banks, they control the world! Your defeat and humiliation is a Jewish plot to destroy you! Kill them all!"

i'm sure you know who he is.

hitler.

There is some truth to what brigden says. The Jewish lobby is very powerful, and there are many in high positions of US government that are very pro-zionist like Perle, Wolfowitz, and Cheney. This results in policies that are very biased.

This is a fact. Saying so shouldn't get one accused of being an anti-semite.

 

[Topher]

Originally posted by: woodie1
Do you believe that Israel is America's friend??

They use the US whenever it suits their needs. Don't think I would call them hostile but not especially trustworthy.

And they are the country that conducts the most espionage on the US. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[p4crusher]

Originally posted by: Topher

Originally posted by: woodie1
Do you believe that Israel is America's friend??

They use the US whenever it suits their needs. Don't think I would call them hostile but not especially trustworthy.

And they are the country that conducts the most espionage on the US. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

That is open to debate but after the John pollard incedent and selling nuke teck to pakistan I would have to say they are far from being trustworthy.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Topher

Originally posted by: woodie1
Do you believe that Israel is America's friend??

They use the US whenever it suits their needs. Don't think I would call them hostile but not especially trustworthy.

And they are the country that conducts the most espionage on the US. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Realize that from their side of the fence, the US is trying to force/dictate them to weaken their security.
It would be the same as if the fence along the Mexican border was removed. That fence is used to prevent illegals from coming to the US.

The US has switched sides many times with respect to the Arabs. The Arab nations are still filled with people that want to destroy Israel and their governments do little to stop it.

The US intelligence is weak is some areas and also hamstrung. Much of the spying is done to protect Israeli interests. We most likely have people spying in England and Canada also.

 

[zengeos]

Wow. Quite a discussion here!!

I'm going to ramble a little, so please bear with me.

1. Isral/ the Jews have been *demonized* throughout the Middle East and to lesser extent, Europe and Russia for hundreds of years. The fear that Jews were *overrunning* Palestine in the 30's put virtualy the entire Middle East on the side of Nazi Germany duriong WW2. Almost immediately after the WTC attacks, Iranian papers reported that all the Jewish workers in the WTC were told to stay home that day so theyu wouldn't be killed...and that the whole attack was an Israeli *plot*. I have the papers stil, somewhere from my visit to Iran several weeks after the attacks. It's easy to join a *gang up* on 1 country or person. I think many of you have seen it in your own schools before, where one person was always ganged up on...picked on by others. Israel is the person picked on globally. Whether out of jealousy, religious hatred, whatever.. that's just the facts.

US did NOT give Israel nukes. Israeli scientists helped France develop their nuclear industry in the 1950's in exchange for France giving them their own nuclear plant in Dimona (at the time Israel just didn't have the industrial/technical infrastrructure to do it themselves, but they had the knowledge in their well educated scientists.

Israel does indeed receive around 3 billion in military and economic aid. However, aid received by Jordan, Egypt and other countries in the region exceeds that given to Isral by quite a lot.

Now, to discuss what Israel has *given* in return for all our support and aid...

Israel has been our *proving ground* for actual combat using American weapon and techniques. Their feedback has helped us immeasurably.

Israel provided a *fix* for the problems the F15 was having at first (keeping it grounded about 50% of the time) and now it is one of the most reliable fighters in our arsenal...saving us billions.

Israel developed reactive armour...plating that is used extensively in the West now.

Captured Soviet equipment handed over to US for research purposes

Israel destroyed the Osirak reactor....where would the world be now if they hadn't done that?

BTW.. Uzi's and Desert Eagles are not really the types f weapons we buy from Israel. More to the point, we buy communications gear, night vision equipment and other types of electronics, as well as RPVs since Israel was a pioneering force RPV's.

Yuip, Israel has spied on US...just as all our allies spy on us and we on them....no to mention the spying our enemies do on us.

On to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

Is the occupation of the West Bank illegal?

Yes...and no. Israel captured them in a war of self defense. As such it is the responsibility of the losing country to sue for peace, NOT the victor. However, Israel, on numerous occasions offered to d just that....exchange land for peace settlement. Egypt finally sued for peace....and Israel was clearly the loser there....for the peace is more akin to a cold war than an actual peace. So, it is very understandable that Israel would want to make sure any peace settlement with the Palestinians be more balanced than the Sinai accords were.

Basically it boils down to this...

The Arab countries basically say...there can not be peace until the Jews give up their foolish notion of theiur own country...they can only live at peace in the region if they agree to live under a *proper* muslim regime..in the Jewish ghettoes like they live in Iran, Iraq, etc... The Israelis, naturally, won't agree to that demand. They fell that they built their country and it is theirs to keep. The longer the war/fighting, etc.. continues, the more stubbornn both sides become.

Mark-

 

[0roo0roo]

In fact, on Oct. 3, 2001, when you barked at a Tel Aviv Cabinet meeting, according to Israel Radio, (Kol Yisrael): "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

http://world.std.com/%7Ecamera/docs/alert/geyer.html
The hoax originated from an October 3, 2001 press release from the pro-Hamas group, the Islamic Association for Palestine.