Do you care about the condition of the employees who make your high end gadgets?

[T_Yamamoto]

IMHO: I don't care

 

[skyking]

I care, but I am also a poor consumer by most standards. I don't rush out to buy the latest crap because I have seen what was once 'great' become totally without value. Graphics cards, need I say more?
The high tech crap is just crap IMO. Get what you need for function, use it till it breaks. Save up and buy a home.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I don't care. Mainly because they are too far away. Out of site out of mind. Oh and the Chinese are the enemy.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's not up to me to audit the source manufacturer for every product I purchase to determine if the conditions of employment meet acceptable standards or not. The people who do the work, their representatives and their government are supposed to do that. I evaluate the product and determine if it's worth what I have to pay to get it.

 

[lord_emperor]

One thing many people fail to point out is that the suicide rate at FoxConn is incredibly low compared to the United States.

There are roughly 7 suicides per 100,000 employees at FoxConn while in the United States the suicide rate is 19 per 100,000 citizens.

...

Did you really just compare the suicide rate of an employer to a country?

Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

China's overall suicide rate is 22 / 100,000. That makes Foxconn sound good until you realize the overall rate includes the unemployed, mentally, ill, angsty teenagers and everything else that working age employed people are not.

Now try finding statistics for working age, employed Americans who kill themselves.

 

[lord_emperor]

As to the OP, I feel bad for them.

However, every tech device in existence is at least partially made in China or another 3rd world country, so is a significant portion of my car, furniture and house. So what can I do? Sent angry e-mails to Apple or live in the stone age.

 

[skyking]

Not having the latest I-gadget does not equal living in the stone age.

 

[slayer202]

50% feel bad? what sort of ATOT twilight zone am I in?!?!?

 

[Kadarin]

I do not care. Human life can't be that valuable in China, where even if you're a-one-in-a-million kind of guy, there's still over a thousand other guys just like you.

 

[GrumpyMan]

I'm surprised that almost 50% of the people in this thread think that an electronic gadget is more important than a human life in this world.

 

[Golgatha]

Also, consider this. Walmart has 1.4 million employees in the United States. Can you remember a time when 10 or 15 Walmart workers jumped to their deaths from the roofs of Walmart stores over the course of a few months? Have you ever heard of Walmart asking employees to sign a no-suicide contract, or putting safety nets up on all of its buildings? If this did happen, would you think maybe something is going on at Walmart? Or would you just say, well, 10 or 15 people out of 1.4 million is still waaaay below the national average?”

Source - http://www.macstories.net/stories/steve-jobs-email-conversation-about-foxconn-suicides/

 

[Golgatha]

...

Did you really just compare the suicide rate of an employer to a country?

Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

China's overall suicide rate is 22 / 100,000. That makes Foxconn sound good until you realize the overall rate includes the unemployed, mentally, ill, angsty teenagers and everything else that working age employed people are not.

Now try finding statistics for working age, employed Americans who kill themselves.

All I see there is that men are much better at committing suicide than women are.

 

[frostedflakes]

Source - http://www.macstories.net/stories/steve-jobs-email-conversation-about-foxconn-suicides/

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that the Foxconn Shenzhen factory employs like 300,000 people, it's basically its own city. It's not like this was 15 workers in a factory of 1000, the scale is enormous compared to what most people probably think of when they hear the word factory. And while every suicide is tragic for the families and friends involved, you can't just ignore the statistics either, and going by the numbers alone 15 suicides out of 300,000 really isn't a lot. US national average is 11.8 per 100k per year, so any US city of about 300,000 people on average should have about 35 suicides in a year.

Also I read that many of the suicides were attributed to relationship issues and stuff like that, not working conditions. Some were also doing it supposedly because of some kind of compensation package Foxconn would pay to their families if they died on the job or something like that, which they have since stopped to discourage the suicides.

 

[Modelworks]

I do care and if I learn that a product is being manufactured the way foxconn products are then I cease use of those products. I know this PR has cost foxconn quite a bit. A friend who is an engineer told me that after their company learned of the conditions they chose another manufacturer , one where they had visited the plants. I don't look down on anyone for not doing the same, that is my personal choice. I stopped consuming all chocolate that is not certified to be free from slave labor. Not many are aware that hersheys, nestle and others get their chocolate from areas that they know are run by slave labor and use children as a good part of the workforce.

 

[Modelworks]

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that the Foxconn Shenzhen factory employs like 300,000 people, it's basically its own city.

Foxconn is doing what the railroads used to do in the USA. It is its own city and one once inside cannot escape. The railroads used to run like that and so did the mining companies, that is where workers unions got their start. The way mining towns worked was you would work for $2a day, out of that $2 , $1 was your room and board, and 50 cents was for rental of the tools you needed to do the job. Your take was 50 cents a day and by the end of the week most people had to borrow to eat. The longer you worked the more in debt you became. As the song says " I owe my soul to the company store"

 

[HardcoreRobot]

not really

 

[gevorg]

I feel bad for them but there is little, if anything, I can do about it. Almost anything that comes out of China is done by slave labor. Slavery is the foundation of world's economic superpowers. Whether you use your own people as slaves or some other country's, doesn't really change much. The US economy is a generation ahead of China's in this regard. Decades from now, the grandchildren of today's slaves in China will likely have a much better life and will be just as ignorant about other country's slaves. In fact, middle-class Chinese might even be indifferent to slaves in their own country. Humanity is rotten.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I feel bad for them. I would be willing to pay a little more to increase working conditions but that's not the issue. Apple makes tons of money and still won't improve conditions.

If they were made in the US I'd pay even more. It might cost more but at least there would be jobs for the people.

 

[lord_emperor]

Not having the latest I-gadget does not equal living in the stone age.

Even my old Nokia flip phone which was completely free from my provider was made in China.

So was everything on my desk at work, and probably my desk itself.

If someone were to set out to provide no money to Chinese industry, they'd pretty much have to live in a log house and be very picky about which appliances they bought, drive an American car from probably the 1950s or ride a horse.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I don't care, I don't feel bad. The only situation I would oppose is actual slave labor, which is employment by coercion. If the people choose to work there, then it is surely better than the alternatives.

The big question for the bleeding hearts is, would you agree all Americans - you included - lose 50% of your wealth and standard of living, to bring all of China to a Western standard of living? If you answer "Yes", then I'm sorry for your stupidity and I wouldn't trust you to provide for your family. If you answer "No", then you are a fucking hypocrite. So either way you look at it, you are fucked, bleeding hearts.

 

[skyking]

Even my old Nokia flip phone which was completely free from my provider was made in China.

So was everything on my desk at work, and probably my desk itself.

If someone were to set out to provide no money to Chinese industry, they'd pretty much have to live in a log house and be very picky about which appliances they bought, drive an American car from probably the 1950s or ride a horse.

I don't dispute that; I am sure I have plenty of chinese made or based products as well.
What annoys me is the need to get the latest -suffix iteration of the latest and greatest. That drives the market a great deal.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I don't dispute that; I am sure I have plenty of chinese made or based products as well.
What annoys me is the need to get the latest -suffix iteration of the latest and greatest. That drives the market a great deal.

The market drives you back. This is what makes the world progress, which leads to better lives to everyone. Those who oppose consumerism are clueless. If people stop consuming, they work less, technological progress is slowed down... the way to depression and stagnation is really short.

Sure, consumerism is sort of a trap but you'd be much worse off without it.

 

[skyking]

really, no that makes no sense. It fattens a fatcat's wallet, keeps the laborer down in China and does jack squat to employ anyone in this country. Go back and read my first post, save up and buy a house.

 

[sportage]

I hate to say it, but this is like asking if you feel bad for the cow when eating that McDonalds Big Mac. (assuming there is cow in the product in the first place )

 

[Pardus]

I hate to say it, but this is like asking if you feel bad for the cow when eating that McDonalds Big Mac. (assuming there is cow in the product in the first place )

big mac's are filled with goo and slime, no real meat in there.