Do you care about the condition of the employees who make your high end gadgets?

[SamurAchzar]

really, no that makes no sense. It fattens a fatcat's wallet, keeps the laborer down in China and does jack squat to employ anyone in this country. Go back and read my first post, save up and buy a house.

First, "Fatcat" is actually the public, through the shares they hold. Second, it does more than you imagine; cheap gadgets promote widespread use of technology. Without the low costs of stuff mass produced in China (and it's not just because of employee labor costs) our everyday technology would not be nearly as advanced. Without the massive acceptance of technology and ongoing consumer demand companies would not invest in semiconductor manufacturing and research and we wouldn't have access to the technologies we enjoy today.

Flash chips are first bought by Apple, which is the largest single consumer of Flash on earth. They are developed and improved because of Apple. Then they can be used to work in medical devices and satellites too. That's one tiny example; think of LCD screens for example. Sure, they are used for medical imaging but would they be available if not for their consumer use?

The consumer electronics industry is the number one driver of technological progress. No other industry is even close. And the only reason consumer electronics is everywhere and that in some industries product cycles are 6 months is because its cheap: If mobile phones cost 3 times as much, we wouldn't be replacing them as often, which means manufacturers would not develop them as rapidly, semiconductor miniaturization would slow... etc

 

[Ns1]

really, no that makes no sense. It fattens a fatcat's wallet, keeps the laborer down in China and does jack squat to employ anyone in this country. Go back and read my first post, save up and buy a house.

ever look at the alternatives to working at a foxconn factory?

 

[0roo0roo]

ever look at the alternatives to working at a foxconn factory?

yea just privileged lefties crying over people thousands of miles away..its hilarious. they out compete americans for jobs..now we are supposed to feel sorry for them? they are working, can save up to buy homes when they leave...not something americans with mcjobs can say. and yea, farming is poor on a different level in china.

The only folks responsible for conditions in china are the chinese government, they have absolute power over there.

anyways the lefties crying about this are the least likely to buy american cars, driving their prius's...while drinking their free trade coffee and whining about apple foxconn. its always been the most hypocritical position i've seen, american factories producing american vehicles with health care and unions and decent wages, but they buy the prius while they whine about some brazilian coffee farmer. one car is several lifetimes of coffee purchases..but that kind of gets down to the root of it, they really don't give a shit about conditions, they just need a badge.

Food stamp dependence in america rose to 45 million now. time to stop pointing fingers across the ocean..

 

[lothar]

Case by case basis.

In this particular Apple case, I don't care "much" about it.

Before everyone goes into a sob story about the plight of these workers you really don't understand unless you have lived outside the US and in a 2nd/3rd world country. What may seem abhorrent in the States may seem pretty nice if the choice is to work in a factory for long hours or starve in a rice field.

Working at a Foxconn factory in China is better than working at rice paddies in China.

Not sure which way to vote in this poll...
It's somewhere between "I don't care" and "I feel bad for them".

I feel bad for them, but I suppose it's better than them working in rice paddies.

 

[janas19]

It did not test it higher than that, but padded the voltage just a little for comfort.

Damn, this is a deep thread. Thanks OP - mad respect.

 

[lothar]

Those Foxconn workers are about to get replaced by robots and be sent back to the rice paddies to work.
Robots don't complain.
Robots don't demand higher wages.
Robots don't kill themselves.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525432
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801
http://techland.time.com/2011/11/09...ingdom-will-change-the-face-of-manufacturing/

 

[RaistlinZ]

I do care, but not enough that I would pay substantially more for ___ product.


My 7970 cost me $550.

Would I pay 5% more ($577.50) to ensure great working conditions? Yes.

Would I pay 10% more ($605.00)? Um, no.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

I don't particularly care. However I still enjoy pointing it out to self righteous apple users.

 

[dmcowen674]

Do you care about the condition of the employees who make your high end gadgets?

Over the last few months we have heard quiet a few news about the factories where apple makes its iPads and iPhones. To sum it up, its horrible, it inhuman by American standards. And not only apple but all electronic manufacturers do it, IBM, HP, Sony, Lenovo, Dell, they all abuse their employees. The question is do you care? I mean, do you really care? we all mock the situation and kind of gloat over it primarily because we loose our jobs to China and India and that makes us bitter, so we make comments which may not exactly reflect how we feel about the sufferings of the employees, but more of our resentment of the company that goes there for cheap labor and for China allowing it.

The below linked article is long, 7 pages, but first page pretty much sums it up, its really disturbing. I really wouldn't care about it if it was about the employees making cheap dollar store buckets and brooms because I know its all about the cost saving, but when I buy an iPad, a Zune or a Galaxy, these are high end expensive product and I would expect the companies not be killing people while making these. It almost feels like I have blood on my hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/b...osts-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all

I find it interesting a Texan posted this.

Are you truly "disturbed" by this?

What do you think is the solution?

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

No

 

[Jeff7]

or

Pick 1.

Part of the problem seems to be that they get lured in by promises of a better life, but then they end up in a situation that's not what's expected, and they can find themselves in debt to their employer. I'm not sure about you, but typically when I get a job here, the pay significantly outweighs the deductions. I've yet to be stuck at an employer because I owed them money.

If they were being informed truthfully of what to expect at the new job in terms of working conditions and pay, then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. (Though I still prefer to see machines or robots doing repetitive assembly line jobs. Robots simply are not yet sufficiently adaptable for this type of rapidly-changing assembly.)

 

[Anarchist420]

Over the last few months we have heard quiet a few news about the factories where apple makes its iPads and iPhones. To sum it up, its horrible, it inhuman by American standards. And not only apple but all electronic manufacturers do it, IBM, HP, Sony, Lenovo, Dell, they all abuse their employees. The question is do you care? I mean, do you really care? we all mock the situation and kind of gloat over it primarily because we loose our jobs to China and India and that makes us bitter, so we make comments which may not exactly reflect how we feel about the sufferings of the employees, but more of our resentment of the company that goes there for cheap labor and for China allowing it.

The below linked article is long, 7 pages, but first page pretty much sums it up, its really disturbing. I really wouldn't care about it if it was about the employees making cheap dollar store buckets and brooms because I know its all about the cost saving, but when I buy an iPad, a Zune or a Galaxy, these are high end expensive product and I would expect the companies not be killing people while making these. It almost feels like I have blood on my hand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/b...osts-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all

I don't feel sorry for them. They chose to work there. They could start their own business.

 

[Pliablemoose]

yea just privileged lefties crying over people thousands of miles away..its hilarious. they out compete americans for jobs..now we are supposed to feel sorry for them? they are working, can save up to buy homes when they leave...not something americans with mcjobs can say. and yea, farming is poor on a different level in china.

The only folks responsible for conditions in china are the chinese government, they have absolute power over there.

anyways the lefties crying about this are the least likely to buy american cars, driving their prius's...while drinking their free trade coffee and whining about apple foxconn. its always been the most hypocritical position i've seen, american factories producing american vehicles with health care and unions and decent wages, but they buy the prius while they whine about some brazilian coffee farmer. one car is several lifetimes of coffee purchases..but that kind of gets down to the root of it, they really don't give a shit about conditions, they just need a badge.

Food stamp dependence in america rose to 45 million now. time to stop pointing fingers across the ocean..

Amen brother, can I get an amen?

 

[Skitzer]

Pick 1.

Would make a Hot mail order bride!

 

[DesiPower]

Excellent new york times piece on this issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html
"“Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.”"

Scale is nuts.

Anyways, what happens in china is china's problem.

yeah, whatever lets them sleep at night... Its all about the bottom line, all about the cost and nothing else. You really do not need half a million humans to build iWhatevers, its just convenient and cheap to do so.

 

[DesiPower]

Amen brother, can I get an amen?

Amen, I guess I think I feel sorry because not doing so would make me cruel. Deep inside me, I think, I feel no remorse or guilt, maybe at times, I even gloat.

 

[DesiPower]

I find it interesting a Texan posted this.

Are you truly "disturbed" by this?

What do you think is the solution?

Atleast I am not ashamed or afraid to tell where I am from. And also it does not mean that I believe in what the politicians believe in. I live in a county where Obama won. So screw you, bigot.

Nowhere in the post did i say that I was "disturbed". I was just against Apple being the modern day messiah, was pocketing from the death of people, having blood in their hands.

Bring jobs back to US, for all those how say where will we find half a million people, we don't need that many, they can be replaced with technology. Trade barrier, insane tariffs, protectionism.

 

[Modelworks]

How many of you have signed a similar agreement when getting a job ?
It is like asking an employee, if you have issues, you agree not to go crazy at work or cause problems.

Foxconn Technology Co.

May 2010

I am aware of the contents of the open letter as well as the variety of services and care the company is providing. I promise the following:

1. If I encounter problems and difficulties after entering the company, I will ask for help from the "Employee Care Center" and other related departments.

2. In terms of my own responsibilities, if I have great difficulties or frustrations I will reach out to relatives to resolve them or report them to the company director, I will also agree to contact and communicate with colleagues, personal staff and relatives. However, I will not harm myself or others; I agree that, in order for the company to protect me and others, it can send me to a hospital should I exhibit abnormal physical or mental problems.

3. In the event of non-accidental injuries (including suicide, self mutilation, etc.), I agree that the company has acted properly in accordance with relevant laws and regulations, and will not sue the company, bring excessive demands, take drastic actions that would damage the company's reputation or cause trouble that would hurt normal operations.

I confirm that I have read and am aware of these issues

________________ (signature)
Employee number:
Residence number:
Date:

 

[lord_emperor]

I hate to say it, but this is like asking if you feel bad for the cow when eating that McDonalds Big Mac. (assuming there is cow in the product in the first place )

Cows live a decent life by cow standards. At least in Canada. They get big fields of grass then when it's time to eat: bolt gun to the brain.

 

[lord_emperor]

or

Pick 1.

I think I see one of the farmers smiling.

Also, one kibipost!

 

[KeithP]

...

Did you really just compare the suicide rate of an employer to a country?

Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

China's overall suicide rate is 22 / 100,000. That makes Foxconn sound good until you realize the overall rate includes the unemployed, mentally, ill, angsty teenagers and everything else that working age employed people are not.

Why does that matter, all those classes of people you mentioned, except the unemployed, can be working at Foxconn.

The fact remains, the suicide rate at Foxconn is less then China in general. Brain dead tomes such as the New York Times have an anti-corporate ax to grind and they don't let the facts get in the way of accomplishing their goals.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/09/09/chinas-suicide-rate-among-the-highest-in-the-world/

-KeithP

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I doubt Foxconn is as bad as many other factories in China. Though its still far below what any worker here would tolerate.

If gadgets are produced over there in appalling conditions, it's really our fault as consumers. We refuse to pay the additional fee incurred with hiring domestic labour to produce our goods. That and with out insatiable greed for gadgets, the North American labour pool is too small to meet demands. It has literally become impossible to produce iPhones here.

Incorrect. We as consumers didn't have a choice. Manufacturers moved production over seas to maximize profits.

The real killer with this whole situation is, most of the people that yelled and screamed that Exxon and other energy companies are greedy and make to much money, they won't say anything negative about Apple, even though Apple makes insane profit off of the consumer and laborers.

 

[lxskllr]

The real killer with this whole situation is, most of the people that yelled and screamed that Exxon and other energy companies are greedy and make to much money, they won't say anything negative about Apple, even though Apple makes insane profit off of the consumer and laborers.

They'll also yell about "doing something" about it without any accountability of their own. Consumers can still make some choices. Not with electronics anymore, but food, clothing, and tools are still up for grabs. You can support quality American goods at a price, or get the cheapest thing you can, and sell your neighbor out to China.

That somebody that "needs to do something" is the consumer.

 

[Ns1]

Part of the problem seems to be that they get lured in by promises of a better life, but then they end up in a situation that's not what's expected, and they can find themselves in debt to their employer. I'm not sure about you, but typically when I get a job here, the pay significantly outweighs the deductions. I've yet to be stuck at an employer because I owed them money.

If they were being informed truthfully of what to expect at the new job in terms of working conditions and pay, then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. (Though I still prefer to see machines or robots doing repetitive assembly line jobs. Robots simply are not yet sufficiently adaptable for this type of rapidly-changing assembly.)

proof? from everything I've read foxconn pay is significantly better than its competitors.

 

[EliteRetard]

Lulz your trying to make it sound bad over there. I had the same working conditions in my last job. Extremely low wages, tons of overtime and working on weekends (Ive had 20+ hour shifts with only an hour break). Hazardous chemicals and materials, filthy carcinogenic air, radiation hazards, extreme sound levels and dangers to eyesight. Always standing and lots of heavy labor. Tons of injuries (even the "safety" manager lost half a hand), and while I was working there even one death (lady got slowly shreaded to death).

I don't give a rats ass, Im out and the government is paying me now (SSDI). I worked with industrial lasers metal fabrication machines die cutters ect in an industrial complex in Renton WA. Sucked ass, but now Im set for life.

And I don't care if you beleive me or not.