Do you consider this to be racism/hate speech

[child of wonder]

And yet crippling institutionalized, systemic racism persists in the US.

False.

 

[realibrad]

False.

Your claim is just as useless as his.

 

[Amused]

Please don't tell me you're going to try to equate the black people of today with slaves.

If a black slave hated ALL white people, not just the ones that owned slaves, then, yes, that would be racism as you're condemning an entire race rather than individuals.

No. No it would not. Racism is racial prejudice BASED ON A BELIEF IN RACIAL SUPERIORITY.

Blacks hating whites for racism and oppression is not racism. It may be racial prejudice (pre judging based on skin color) however it is not racism.

And finally, whites as a group ARE responsible for the oppression of minority races. If the majority of whites opposed oppression, it would stop.

 

[child of wonder]

If every white person denies responsibility and claims to not be racist, yet demonstrable crippling institutionalized and systemic racism persists in the US, those denials accomplish nothing but the status quo.

Your assertions don't make it so either. In fact, I'd say they harm race relations and, worse still, sends the message to black people that they CAN'T succeed because of "whitey."

Fact: Crippling institutionalized and systemic racism persists in the US.

False.

As long as that fact remains, it is EVERYONE'S problem. Sitting on your ass and denying responsibility (while spouting and or ignoring racist dog whistles all around you and telling black people there is no problem and if there is, it's not your problem) is not a solution.

Every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions. Stop grouping together people of similar skin colors and using ancient history to call one oppressed and the other the oppressors.

We're all Americans, we're all free, and we all have equal opportunities to succeed. We will all face different obstacles and challenges as barriers to success but screaming at a bogeyman and blaming it for our problems is not productive and it only tears people apart.

 

[child of wonder]

Your claim is just as useless as his.

I didn't make a claim. I'm denying his.

Stating something as "fact" is a truth claim. Prove it.

 

[jackstar7]

Every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions. Stop grouping together people of similar skin colors and using ancient history to call one oppressed and the other the oppressors.

Leave society. You are a leech.

Also, if you don't see oppression in the present day you are blind.

 

[Amused]

False.

Denial of demonstrable, factual reality is not rational.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/09/11/1706255114.full

That institutionalized racism from every sector from employment to law enforcement to the justice system exists is fact and not open for debate.

Denial of the existence of racism is, in itself, racism.

 

[jackstar7]

Denial of the existence of racism is, in itself, racism.

I find it more insidious. A racist can possibly be shown how racism is harmful. Someone who actively ignores that systemic racism exists is a fucking asshole.

 

[sao123]

Talk about entitlement.

enjoying the fruits of your own labor is entitlement? Wow you are a piece of work.

And yet crippling institutionalized, systemic racism persists in the US.

Right... so obviously the answer is institutionalized theft and extortion.

Don't be silly. It's common sense that if you're currently benefiting from something bad that happened awhile ago and someone else is currently suffering from it there should be some sort of accommodation.

The principle here is pretty obvious I would think. The idea that we would pretend we have no idea where we came from and what happened is stupid.

the principle here is also obvious, Reparations must be specific, fact driven, and measurable. That you pretend that you can know specifically what each accommodation should be to the penny for each individual, and who owes what to the penny, including those whose accommodation should be a net loss, and whose reparation would actually be a net gain.

Our best estimates show about 3.6% or 400K black slaves were brought to the US through the transatlantic slave trade. What about the 1.2M who were enslaved in Jamaca and 4.8M who were enslaved in Brazil? Who is going to pay their reparations? How much of those reparations should be paid by the current black families in Africa for selling the slaves to the Eurpoeans?

Unless we actually rewrite history and visit the alternate timeline with out own eyes, we actually wont know what effect altering history could have caused is a matter not even worth considering. Even if you could do that, the people who should make any form of reparations are all dead, there is literally no-one left to extract anything from with any true legal culpability.

When I die and the creator I face, he is going to judge me for my own actions and my own sins. i may feel guilty for a lot of things. White collective guilt, will never be one of them.

 

[Amused]

Right... so obviously the answer is institutionalized theft and extortion.

That's what hundreds of years of racism, slavery and colonialism have been. Literally. Restitution is not theft. You seem to have trouble with projectionism.

 

[child of wonder]

No. No it would not. Racism is racial prejudice BASED ON A BELIEF IN RACIAL SUPERIORITY.

Blacks hating whites for racism and oppression is not racism. It may be racial prejudice (pre judging based on skin color) however it is not racism.

And finally, whites as a group ARE responsible for the oppression of minority races. If the majority of whites opposed oppression, it would stop.

Is this racism or just the blameless oppressed justifiably lashing out at the horrible (random) oppressors?
Racism or simple prejudice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7dljmZ9KY

"He white! Beat his shit!"
"Black power!"

Maybe you shouldn't blame an entire race of people for the plight of another? Maybe we shouldn't flood the media and press with messages that whites are the cause of most bad things that happen to the black community? Maybe that worsens, not improves, race relations?

Maybe we should hold everyone to the same standards, call out individual racism when we see it no matter what direction that racism goes, and work towards giving everyone as much freedom and equal access to opportunities as possible instead of victimization, race cards, and blame?

 

[sao123]

That's what hundreds of years of racism, slavery and colonialism have been. Literally. Restitution is not theft. You seem to have trouble with projectionism.

Restitution must come from the legally culpable. They are all dead.

Any other reparations by force would simply be an unreasonable seizure of property which IMO is against The Fourth Amendment.

 

[child of wonder]

That's what hundreds of years of racism, slavery and colonialism have been. Literally. Restitution is not theft. You seem to have trouble with projectionism.

How much money or property have you voluntarily given to random black families since you feel so strongly about this?
If the answer is none or very little, why are you so ardent that you have to take money or property from other people to accomplish what you're unwilling to do?

 

[fskimospy]

How much money or property have you voluntarily given to random black families since you feel so strongly about this?
If the answer is none or very little, why are you so ardent that you have to take money or property from other people to accomplish what you're unwilling to do?

It’s a collective action problem so the right answer is not to give random things to blacks people but to act collectively.

This is a cousin to the nonsense argument that if you favor higher taxes you should donate to the treasury.

 

[child of wonder]

It’s a collective action problem so the right answer is not to give random things to blacks people but to act collectively.

This is a cousin to the nonsense argument that if you favor higher taxes you should donate to the treasury.

Gotcha. Guess I'll stop volunteering at Second Harvest until the government collectively forces everyone to put in time there.

You know, because I believe in helping the hungry SO MUCH.

 

[fskimospy]

Gotcha. Guess I'll stop volunteering at Second Harvest until the government collectively forces everyone to put in time there.

You know, because I believe in helping the hungry SO MUCH.

So if you ever support military action against a country you better immediately go grab a rifle and invade. No, I didn’t say join the military, I said you personally go invade. After all, you don’t accept collective action problems. My condolences to the widow.

 

[jackstar7]

All you guys in here talking about picking yourselves up by your bootstraps who ignore that you were born with boots on your feet in the first place, but don't see how that's privilege.

 

[dyna]

That's what hundreds of years of racism, slavery and colonialism have been. Literally. Restitution is not theft. You seem to have trouble with projectionism.

What restitution do you want? What is the $$ figure that gives you that satisfaction that you are cured as inferior to the white man? Maybe its not a dollar figure, maybe you want to inflict pain and torture. What must they do to help you to make it all right?

 

[Amused]

Restitution must come from the legally culpable. They are all dead.

Any other reparations by force would simply be an unreasonable seizure of property which IMO is against The Fourth Amendment.

White people in the US have benefitted from the ongoing institutionalized racism. Like it or not, you are culpable.

 

[Amused]

Is this racism or just the blameless oppressed justifiably lashing out at the horrible (random) oppressors?
Racism or simple prejudice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7dljmZ9KY

"He white! Beat his shit!"
"Black power!"

Maybe you shouldn't blame an entire race of people for the plight of another? Maybe we shouldn't flood the media and press with messages that whites are the cause of most bad things that happen to the black community? Maybe that worsens, not improves, race relations?

Maybe we should hold everyone to the same standards, call out individual racism when we see it no matter what direction that racism goes, and work towards giving everyone as much freedom and equal access to opportunities as possible instead of victimization, race cards, and blame?

By your logic, Jews holding the whole of Germany responsible for nazism were nazis.

Pulling up examples of racial frustration and anger directed at crippling institutional racism is not evidence of racism.

Again, racism requires belief in racial superiority. Not all racial prejudice is racism. When racial prejudice is in response to racism, it is not racism.

No more than lower classes resenting the upper classes is classism.

 

[jackstar7]

What restitution do you want? What is the $$ figure that gives you that satisfaction that you are cured as inferior to the white man? Maybe its not a dollar figure, maybe you want to inflict pain and torture. What must they do to help you to make it all right?

You can't wait to be the victim. Look at you.

 

[dyna]

You can't wait to be the victim. Look at you.

The claim is that restitution is required for centuries of oppression. What exactly is wrong with asking what restitution resolves the claim? Stop being a perpetual victim and help come to a resolution.

 

[Amused]

The claim is that restitution is required for centuries of oppression. What exactly is wrong with asking what restitution resolves the claim? Stop being a perpetual victim and help come to a resolution.

That wouldn't be for him, or you to decide.

 

[sao123]

What restitution do you want? What is the $$ figure that gives you that satisfaction that you are cured as inferior to the white man? Maybe its not a dollar figure, maybe you want to inflict pain and torture. What must they do to help you to make it all right?

The claim is that restitution is required for centuries of oppression. What exactly is wrong with asking what restitution resolves the claim? Stop being a perpetual victim and help come to a resolution.

That wouldn't be for him, or you to decide.

Do you expect to actually get an answer?
You should see it in his answers... Reverse racism doesnt exist. Only black people can ever decide that the debt has been paid in full.

It will never be enough until Black people own everything across both Euro and Amero continents and white people are their slaves for 150 years and it will all be ok because Amused knows that black people cant ever exhibit racism.

 

[Amused]

Do you expect to actually get an answer?
You should see it in his answers... Reverse racism doesnt exist. Only black people can ever decide that the debt has been paid in full.

It will never be enough until Black people own everything across both Euro and Amero continents and white people are their slaves for 150 years and it will all be ok because Amused knows that black people cant ever exhibit racism.

Since when do the perpetrators or at fault parties get to decide the punishment or restitution for their crimes?

Look at how stupid you consistently make yourself look while you throw a tantrum attempting to make blacks racist and whites the arbitrators of their pain and suffering