Do you consider this to be racism/hate speech

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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Unfortunately, that's not the message you have been sending.

Racial concern trolling is probably not going to help.


I’m not concern trolling and racist publications like in the OP are boiling people down to their skin color. That’s absurd, and yes racist. It’s become much more pervasive and acceptable over the past 5-10 years to be racist so long as it’s against the right skin color. I think that’s worth discussing.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,051
136
I feel so oppressed and profiled as a white person. Thank god the OP is here to defend me, that's mighty white of him.

In all seriousness to the OP. If you really want a post racial society then you need to spend more time and effort advocating for policies that will help people have the same opportunities in life. The "racisim" that you're so opposed to is generally a product of decades/centuries of racism that has led to reduced economic opportunities today for impacted racial groups.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
I’m not concern trolling and racist publications like in the OP are boiling people down to their skin color. That’s absurd, and yes racist. It’s become much more pervasive and acceptable over the past 5-10 years to be racist so long as it’s against the right skin color. I think that’s worth discussing.

If you’re not concern trolling you do an extremely good impression of it. Can you point out to me a single thread you’ve posted calling out systemic discrimination against black people, Hispanics, Muslims, etc? There might be one but I can’t think of it.

Maybe if you appeared more concerned about the pervasive racism against nonwhite people in the US we would take your complaints of racism against whites more seriously?
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
If you’re not concern trolling you do an extremely good impression of it. Can you point out to me a single thread you’ve posted calling out systemic discrimination against black people, Hispanics, Muslims, etc? There might be one but I can’t think of it.

Maybe if you appeared more concerned about the pervasive racism against nonwhite people in the US we would take your complaints of racism against whites more seriously?


I can start one of why black people recieve much harsher sentencing than white people for similar crimes if you’d like me to. Or the drug war and how we treat different drug crimes differently depending on who uses it. Or why the black community is policed much more heavily than the white community.


Like I’ve said before the “concern” response is a sign of someone who has nothing to say. No input into the conversation or more than likely they don’t want to agree with someone for partisan reasons, so the default response regurgitated is “concern”.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
I can start one of why black people recieve much harsher sentencing than white people for similar crimes if you’d like me to.

If you’re only doing it after it’s pointed out to you that kind of proves my point. Why on earth is the thing that motivates you to make a thread some stupid headlines from Salon.com and not say, the massive discrimination in hiring against blacks people, massive inequalities in criminal justice, pervasive racism in housing, all that? Instead it’s white people getting their feelings hurt by opinion columnists that roused your ire? Hell, even if you were dead set in taking about opinion columnists saying racist things that problem is also vastly larger against nonwhites. Where is your thread on that?

If your point was that liberals can sometimes say racist things (of which maybe half of those pictured headlines could be evidence of and the rest are fine) who cares? Let’s deal with real racism and not collect opinion columnists to be triggered by.
 
Reactions: ivwshane

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,657
5,346
136
If you’re not concern trolling you do an extremely good impression of it. Can you point out to me a single thread you’ve posted calling out systemic discrimination against black people, Hispanics, Muslims, etc? There might be one but I can’t think of it.

Maybe if you appeared more concerned about the pervasive racism against nonwhite people in the US we would take your complaints of racism against whites more seriously?
Is there a rule somewhere that says you have to defend others before defending yourself? You're trying to define the process and rules so that you control the narrative, I don't buy it. The charge of racism has to stand on it's own, there are no qualifiers.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Greatest white racism is found in our supposedly high minded white liberal elites who like to point the finger at the the KKK, confederate flag waving southern white boy but they themselves have and still institute national policies to prevent the black man they pretend to care so much about from moving up the economic ladder.

Liberals say immigration enforcement is racist, but the group most likely to benefit from it is black men
https://cis.org/Oped/Liberals-say-i...racist-group-most-likely-benefit-it-black-men
Left-leaning advocacy groups and a host of Democrats all too often shy away from the specifics of the debate and instead lean on cries of bigotry, resorting to claims like that of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who has described Trump's approach to immigration reform as an effort to "make America white again."

This dynamic played out recently at a large bakery in Chicago that supplies buns to McDonald's. Some 800 immigrant laborers, most of them from Mexico, lost their jobs last year after an audit by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The Cloverhill Bakery, owned by Aryzta, a big Swiss food conglomerate, had to hire new workers, 80 percent to 90 percent of whom are African American. According to the Chicago Sun Times, the new workers are paid $14 per hour, or $4 per hour more than the (illegal) immigrant workers.

In this case, and in many others, the beneficiaries of immigration enforcement were working-class blacks, who are often passed over for jobs by unscrupulous employers.

The labor force participation rate for adult black men has declined steadily since the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, which ushered in a new era of mass immigration. In 1973, the rate was 79 percent. It is now at 68 percent, and the Bureau of Labor projects that it will decline to 61 percent by 2026.

In 2016, the Obama White House produced a 48-page report acknowledging that immigration does not help the labor force participation rate of the native-born. It concluded, however, that "immigration reform would raise the overall participation rate by bringing in new workers of prime working age."

Although the report used the term "new workers," Democrats may also be tempted by the prospect of new voters. But they should be aware that in courting one group, they risk losing others.

African Americans tend to be a reliable voting bloc for the Democratic Party, but they have repeatedly indicated in public opinion surveys that they want significantly less immigration.

A recent Harvard-Harris poll found that African Americans favor reducing legal immigration more than any other demographic group: 85 percent want less than the million-plus we allow on an annual basis, and 54 percent opted for the most stringent choices offered — 250,000 immigrants per year or less, or none at all.

These attitudes are rational.

In a 2010 study on the social effects of immigration, the Cornell University professor Vernon Briggs concluded: "No racial or ethnic group has benefited less or been harmed more than the nation's African American community."

The Harvard economist George Borjas has found that, between 1980 and 2000, one-third of the decline in the employment among black male high school dropouts was attributable to immigration. He also reported "a strong correlation between immigration, black wages, black employment rates, and black incarceration rates."

In a 2014 paper on neoliberal immigration policies and their effects on African Americans, the University of Notre Dame professor Stephen Steinberg argued that, thanks to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, "African Americans found themselves in the proverbial position of being 'last hired.'" Steinberg also noted that "immigrants have been cited as proof that African Americans lack the pluck and determination that have allowed millions of immigrants from Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean to pursue the American dream."

The struggles of black men obviously cannot all be linked to immigration, but it's clear that the status quo does not benefit them.

As elected leaders consider changing our immigration laws, the interests of America's most vulnerable citizens shouldn't be overlooked. The first step toward honest reform is for the Democratic Party to admit that while liberal immigration enforcement might help them win new voters, it also harms and disenfranchises their most loyal constituency.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Is there a rule somewhere that says you have to defend others before defending yourself? You're trying to define the process and rules so that you control the narrative, I don't buy it. The charge of racism has to stand on it's own, there are no qualifiers.

Of course not, as I already said it just makes people to not take his claims to be concerned about racism seriously. I have no doubt that he’s concerned about racism towards white people but that appears to be due to the ‘white’ part, not the ‘racism’ part. If he were truly just concerned about racism you would think we would have gotten at least a couple posts about racism towards nonwhites, no?

He’s welcome to engage in any process he wants but he should expect people to draw rational conclusions based on it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Greatest white racism is found in our supposedly high minded white liberal elites who like to point the finger at the the KKK, confederate flag waving southern white boy but they themselves have and still institute national policies to prevent the black man they pretend to care so much about from moving up the economic ladder.

Liberals say immigration enforcement is racist, but the group most likely to benefit from it is black men
https://cis.org/Oped/Liberals-say-i...racist-group-most-likely-benefit-it-black-men

You just quoted an editorial from a racist, far right activist group with a history of making false claims about immigration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies

The literature on the effects of immigration on employment and wages is mixed, often finding somewhere between a small negative effect and no effect. You can read more about it here:

https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2#4

Shocking that CIS didn't say that but instead decided to lie to its audience. As I've always said nobody, absolutely nobody thinks less of the intelligence of conservatives than conservative media and advocacy organizations.
 
Reactions: ivwshane and pmv

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,009
14,554
146
I'm going to repost this because apparently it was overlooked and people keep making the same failed arguments.

And to end this fucking nonsense once and for all:

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Frustration and resentment is not racism.

Were this a class war, you would most certainly not call the underclasses "classist" or "elitist" for resenting and being frustrated with the upper classes.

Are the untouchables in India "classist?"

So why do you do so with race? To excuse your own feelings. To accuse those who are angry with whites as a group for years of oppression of the very thing you've done to them all along.

Calling the oppressed group "classist," "sexist," or "racist" is merely projection and a convenient form of denial. An excuse to continue the very behavior that got us here.
 
Reactions: jackstar7 and pmv

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,009
14,554
146
Greatest white racism is found in our supposedly high minded white liberal elites who like to point the finger at the the KKK, confederate flag waving southern white boy but they themselves have and still institute national policies to prevent the black man they pretend to care so much about from moving up the economic ladder.

Liberals say immigration enforcement is racist, but the group most likely to benefit from it is black men
https://cis.org/Oped/Liberals-say-i...racist-group-most-likely-benefit-it-black-men

WOW! Way to go there, buddy! Use a known "kinder gentler suit n tie" white supremacist organization to claim racism doesn't exist.

Brilliant!!

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/center-immigration-studies
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
What bs. Whiteness is not a social or political construct, it’s a damned skin color. No one (except I guess Michael Jackson) in the history of the earth has been able to choose that, it depends on your parents. A skin color. Color of your skin. Insane people care about this so much.

Yeah I do want things to change. I don’t want anyone to use someone’s skin color as a factor for anything. There’s no reason.

No, it's a social construct. One that attributes a significant role to skin-color, but which isn't defined or caused by it.

Do you live entirely in your own bubble? Take a look at history and the world around you. You could start by noting how the definition of 'white' varies by era and by culture and country.

Meh, what's the use? You don't _want_ to think about the topic, because you've found it benefits you to not do so. That's how humans are, I guess. People respond to incentives.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
No, it's a social construct. One that attributes a significant role to skin-color, but which isn't defined or caused by it.

Do you live entirely in your own bubble? Take a look at history and the world around you. You could start by noting how the definition of 'white' varies by era and by culture and country.

Meh, what's the use? You don't _want_ to think about the topic, because you've found it benefits you to not do so. That's how humans are, I guess. People respond to incentives.

Yes, the idea that race isn't at least significantly a social construct is...well... obviously, comically wrong. The easiest example is that Germans, Italians, and Irish were all at one time not considered fully 'white' in America. Just look to Ben Franklin's writing on those 'swarthy' Germans.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
What bs. Whiteness is not a social or political construct, it’s a damned skin color. No one (except I guess Michael Jackson) in the history of the earth has been able to choose that, it depends on your parents. A skin color. Color of your skin. Insane people care about this so much.

Yeah I do want things to change. I don’t want anyone to use someone’s skin color as a factor for anything. There’s no reason.
Have you changed your mind on this yet? Or will there be a doubling-down?
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
No, it's a social construct. One that attributes a significant role to skin-color, but which isn't defined or caused by it.

Do you live entirely in your own bubble? Take a look at history and the world around you. You could start by noting how the definition of 'white' varies by era and by culture and country.

Meh, what's the use? You don't _want_ to think about the topic, because you've found it benefits you to not do so. That's how humans are, I guess. People respond to incentives.

I have thought about t and provided thoughtful feedback throughout this thread, you just disagree with it. I feel like we should not judge anyone by skin color, doing so is a racist thing to do. It’s as simple as that even when you take it within the context of history.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
I have thought about t and provided thoughtful feedback throughout this thread, you just disagree with it. I feel like we should not judge anyone by skin color, doing so is a racist thing to do. It’s as simple as that even when you take it within the context of history.
Cool. So take judgment out of it and just realize that color of skin is something that affects how the world engages with a person.

Can you address that with your thoughtful feedback?
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Cool. So take judgment out of it and just realize that color of skin is something that affects how the world engages with a person.

Can you address that with your thoughtful feedback?

That engagement based on skin color exists only because you allow it too. Talk to white people like they are human rather than like they are white. Same for white to black or whatever skin color you want. Stop looking at somebody’s skin as a defining factor of them as a person. If there is a social construct it’s an arbitrary one that doesn’t have to exist.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
That engagement based on skin color exists only because you allow it too. Talk to white people like they are human rather than like they are white. Same for white to black or whatever skin color you want. Stop looking at somebody’s skin as a defining factor of them as a person. If there is a social construct it’s an arbitrary one that doesn’t have to exist.
Oh fuck, you are dumb as shit.

Because I allow it? Go fuck yourself right now, please.

Your solipsism is showing, dear.
 

deathBOB

Senior member
Dec 2, 2007
566
228
116
That engagement based on skin color exists only because you allow it too. Talk to white people like they are human rather than like they are white. Same for white to black or whatever skin color you want. Stop looking at somebody’s skin as a defining factor of them as a person. If there is a social construct it’s an arbitrary one that doesn’t have to exist.

How enormously stupid.
 
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