Do you consider yourself racist?

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Nobody can be more or less racist than anyone else. You either are or you aren't. There can be differences in the behavior/conduct related/incidental to racism, but racism itself is the underlying belief, and it's either on or off.
Disagree again. There are some whites who believe that blacks were better off as slaves because they are unable to make decisions and think for themselves. There are some whites who believe that blacks are a little less intelligent and a little less wise than whites. Would you disagree that the former are more racist than the latter? Yet clearly both positions are racist by any measure, essentially being "my race is inherently better than your race."
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
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Nobody can be more or less racist than anyone else. You either are or you aren't. There can be differences in the behavior/conduct related/incidental to racism, but racism itself is the underlying belief, and it's either on or off.
BS.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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Games have content; therefore games can be racist. Term papers can't hold beliefs either, but write a term paper about how blacks are inferior to whites and everyone will call it (and you) out as racist.

You admit that neither can hold beliefs, yet you still think that they can be racist.... that's just weird.

Content cannot be racist. Content isn't sentient.

The authors of the games or the term paper could be racist, but not the content.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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Content can be very racist, it happens daily.

Content is created by the person who writes its view points to begin with.

You're blowing smoke out of your ass at this point.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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Disagree again. There are some whites who believe that blacks were better off as slaves because they are unable to make decisions and think for themselves. There are some whites who believe that blacks are a little less intelligent and a little less wise than whites. Would you disagree that the former are more racist than the latter? Yet clearly both positions are racist by any measure, essentially being "my race is inherently better than your race."

Yes. You either are or you aren't. This much should be clear from the referenced definition, which can't be compatible with the language above.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
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Lol! Nothing like justifying ones own racist feelings by stating that everyone is a racist!
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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Content can be very racist, it happens daily.

Content is created by the person who writes its view points to begin with.

You're blowing smoke out of your ass at this point.

You think that people write content from the point of view of the content? That's some mind-bending shit. So I guess you aren't talking nonsense. Your posts are.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You admit that neither can hold beliefs, yet you still think that they can be racist.... that's just weird.

Content cannot be racist. Content isn't sentient.

The authors of the games or the term paper could be racist, but not the content.
Content isn't sentient, but content is the expression of sentient thought. As such, if that thought is racist, then its expression must be racist. To believe otherwise would be to accept that we can never know if anyone is racist, for we can't see their hearts except through the content of their expressions. There is something to be said for not judging another's heart, but there's also something to be said for not being blind to the world. For instance, I'm not going to knowingly go into business with someone writing a column in the KKK newsletter, or allow them to keep my grandchildren; even though I cannot see his heart, I can see the content of his expression by which he shows me his heart.

I think this same concept plugs into Mongrel's statement that gave you heartburn. We all see things that are more often characteristic of a particular race. Some of these things we think are stupid, bad, evil and self-defeating. We could say such beliefs are a little racist because we are judging them and the natural human tendency is to group and classify things, and to the degree that we associate non-racial characteristics with race, that is racist thought. A rational person will understand that these behaviors are not inherent to that race, and not restricted to that race. An even more rational person will understand that these behaviors do not exist in a vacuum, but have pre-existing factors that make them seem sensible to those persons holding them even though we may be absolutely correct that they are stupid, bad, evil and self-defeating. A racist person will believe that those people embrace those behaviors because of their race, ignoring those of that race without those behaviors as well as those of different races with the same behaviors. But they are the same beliefs either way, and although they may be absolutely correct, they can still be as harmful as actual racism if not well understood and controlled.

In fact, with slavery and Jim Crow segregation abolished, I'd say well-meaning soft racism does more damage than any other kind. If I'm a flaming racist teacher and I hate black people with a burning passion but I still teach them math, I'm doing a lot less damage than if I love black people and spend my year telling them about the wonderful Dogon tribe because I "know" they aren't smart enough to learn math.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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Content isn't sentient, but content is the expression of sentient thought. As such, if that thought is racist, then its expression must be racist.

Did I understand the argument correctly? Expressions are racist because they are?
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
There is plenty of racist content in this thread, and many others, on anandtech.


No need to go to stormfront you can get your hate fix and discuss Broadwell at the same time!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
There is plenty of racist content in this thread, and many others, on anandtech.

No need to go to stormfront you can get your hate fix and discuss Broadwell at the same time!
Plenty of hate on both sides here.

Full disclosure, I've never actually been to Stormfront, because I am capable of learning from the experience of others and see no reason to generate a page hit for a cesspool. But I am comfortable describing it as full of racist content because of all the people I've heard discuss it, I've yet to hear anyone defend it, even in principle other than to say it should be allowed to exist.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
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Did I understand the argument correctly? Expressions are racist because they are?
You do not understand any argument at all to a capacity that I can have a conversation with you it appears.

Have a nice day.
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
Plenty of hate on both sides here.



Full disclosure, I've never actually been to Stormfront, because I am capable of learning from the experience of others and see no reason to generate a page hit for a cesspool. But I am comfortable describing it as full of racist content because of all the people I've heard discuss it, I've yet to hear anyone defend it, even in principle other than to say it should be allowed to exist.


I haven't either, however I've seen enough of it described and sadly enough linked (imgur via reddits 4chan sub) that I know from personal experience: it's horrifying. It's not just black people. They hate everybody "if you're not like me, go hang from a tree".


Anandtech doesn't really compare but there are people on here who really believe that stuff. They won't defend it (how could they?) but they support the sentiment and I sincerely do think they really believe that shit.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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Nope. Expressions are racist IF they are.

Are you seriously going to argue there is no racist content on Stormfront?

You can use the term "racist content" to refer to steamfront in the same way you can use "ski content" to refer to some forum where people who ski discuss skiing. The skifront content doesn't ski. The steamfront content isn't racist.

A given occurrence of an adjective can generally be classified into one of four kinds of uses:

Attributive adjectives are part of the noun phrase headed by the noun they modify; for example, happy is an attributive adjective in "happy people". In some languages, attributive adjectives precede their nouns; in others, they follow their nouns; and in yet others, it depends on the adjective, or on the exact relationship of the adjective to the noun. In English, attributive adjectives usually precede their nouns in simple phrases, but often follow their nouns when the adjective is modified or qualified by a phrase acting as an adverb. For example: "I saw three happy kids", and "I saw three kids happy enough to jump up and down with glee." See also Postpositive adjective.
Predicative adjectives are linked via a copula or other linking mechanism to the noun or pronoun they modify; for example, happy is a predicate adjective in "they are happy" and in "that made me happy." (See also: Predicative expression, Subject complement.)
Absolute adjectives have meanings that are implicitly unable to be used comparatively or superlatively; for example, dead is an absolute adjective, as the words deader or deadest are not normally used to describe states of death.
Nominal adjectives act almost as nouns. One way this can happen is if a noun is elided and an attributive adjective is left behind. In the sentence, "I read two books to them; he preferred the sad book, but she preferred the happy", happy is a nominal adjective, short for "happy one" or "happy book". Another way this can happen is in phrases like "out with the old, in with the new", where "the old" means, "that which is old" or "all that is old", and similarly with "the new". In such cases, the adjective functions either as a mass noun (as in the preceding example) or as a plural count noun, as in "The meek shall inherit the Earth", where "the meek" means "those who are meek" or "all who are meek".

In many languages, including English, it is possible for nouns to modify other nouns. Unlike adjectives, nouns acting as modifiers (called attributive nouns or noun adjuncts) usually are not predicative; a beautiful park is beautiful, but a car park is not "car". In plain English, the modifier often indicates origin ("Virginia reel"), purpose ("work clothes"), or semantic patient ("man eater"), however, it may generally indicate almost any semantic relationship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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So Justoh, I guess everyone that has ever said "that guy made a racist comment" is wrong because a comment can't be racist, right?
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
So Justoh, I guess everyone that has ever said "that guy made a racist comment" is wrong because a comment can't be racist, right?

Unless they mean "racist comment" as the comment belonging to a/the racist. Kind of like "bus station."
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Well then let's check out the Oxford definition of racist and expand their example usage section:

A person who believes that a particular race is superior to another

Clearly their examples don't all fit their definition.

Any old comment I make is immediately construed to be racist by some people.

Unless by racist he means the comment of a racist. So you have to read it as, "Any old comment I make is immediately construed by some to be the comment of a racist."

I guess that makes sense, if he's racist (or assumed to be), since he does say "any comment." Any comment he makes then rightly would be a construed to be the comment made by a racist person. Though if he says something like, "nice weather today," his racism probably isn't relevant.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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Clearly their examples don't all fit their definition.



Unless by racist he means the comment of a racist. So you have to read it as, "Any old comment I make is immediately construed by some to be the comment of a racist."

I guess that makes sense, if he's racist (or assumed to be), since he does say "any comment." Any comment he makes then rightlywould be a construed to be the comment made by a racist person.
I'll make this real simple for you. An adjective can be applied to any noun. A noun can be any person, place or thing.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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That's the definition when used as a noun. Check the definition when used as an adjective.

Having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another

Sure, comments can't have beliefs but can indicate something that the person making the comments may or may not believe. Doesn't mean the comments themselves can be racist.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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Sure, comments can't have beliefs but can indicate something that the person making the comments may or may not believe. Doesn't mean the comments themselves can be racist.

having OR SHOWING
 
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