Do you consider yourself racist?

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justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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ped·ant
ˈpednt/

noun


noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

Why do you think it's a minor detail whether someone is correctly identified as a racist? I think it's important to understand that unless you're racist your expressions can't be those of a racist person. To this end it seems important to accept that words or other expressions of ideas cannot themselves be racist.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Why do you think it's a minor detail whether someone is correctly identified as a racist? I think it's important to understand that unless you're racist your expressions can't be those of a racist person. Integral to this is the acceptance that words or other expressions of ideas cannot themselves be racist.

It's ok. Everyone should have a hobby.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Why do you think it's a minor detail whether someone is correctly identified as a racist? I think it's important to understand that unless you're racist your expressions can't be those of a racist person. To this end it seems important to accept that words or other expressions of ideas cannot themselves be racist.
But by your definition, there can be no racist people, as we can never know their hearts other than by the contents of their speech. Thus the phrase "black people are useless, inferior sub-creatures and should all die horribly" is no more racist that "black people sometimes play tennis." How does that make sense?

By your definition, a cop caught texting the first could not be fired. We don't know he is racist; we have no evidence, since he has expressed no racist comments.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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The problem with "racism" is the definition of racism changes from one person to the next.

I like to think of it as, you're not racist if you see everyone as equal and treat everyone equally.

Others think of it as, treating everyone equally is racist because someone else out there is racist, and therefore you must act in the opposite direction based on skin color to counterbalance that racist. The act of treating everyone equally based on skin color is allowing the racists to win, and therefore racist. Thus the only way to not be racist is to treat people differently based on skin color, in proper proportion with the current majority opinion on the definition of racism. Obviously.

To the thread's question, most believe they personally are not racist, and everyone is viewed as racist by someone else.
 
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justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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But by your definition, there can be no racist people, as we can never know their hearts other than by the contents of their speech. Thus the phrase "black people are useless, inferior sub-creatures and should all die horribly" is no more racist that "black people sometimes play tennis." How does that make sense?

By your definition, a cop caught texting the first could not be fired. We don't know he is racist; we have no evidence, since he has expressed no racist comments.

It's not my definition, and those aren't the implications. The first is an expression of opinion/belief regarding race, while the latter is a benign statement of fact involving race. We don't need to be 100% certain what's in his mind to react to it. Of course it's evidence of racism? It's just not itself racist. That cop is very likely racist, given the context. His text messages aren't racist.

I don't understand why you want it to be so badly. There are no down-sides, and the upside is less needless offense being taken, less pc nonsense, less senseless controversy like what you see all the time with people like kramer, jeremy clarkson, sarah silverman, etc. Why is it more acceptable for black people to use the n word? Maybe because we consider context and give them the benefit of the doubt that they probably don't think of black people as inferior, since they're black (but they could).

Anyway, intent and context are important. Your understanding either ignores intent and context or subconsciously (and inconsistently) incorporates them anyway. We don't gain anything by calling expressions racist. It doesn't mean we can't identify racists.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
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It's not my definition, and those aren't the implications. The first is an expression of opinion/belief regarding race, while the latter is a benign statement of fact involving race. We don't need to be 100% certain what's in his mind to react to it. Of course it's evidence of racism? It's just not itself racist. That cop is very likely racist, given the context. His text messages aren't racist.

I don't understand why you want it to be so badly. There are no down-sides, and the upside is less needless offense being taken, less pc nonsense, less senseless controversy like what you see all the time with people like kramer, jeremy clarkson, sarah silverman, etc. Why is it more acceptable for black people to use the n word? Maybe because we consider context and give them the benefit of the doubt that they probably don't think of black people as inferior, since they're black (but they could).

Anyway, intent and context are important. Your understanding either ignores intent and context or subconsciously (and inconsistently) incorporates them anyway. We don't gain anything by calling expressions racist. It doesn't mean we can't identify racists.
You are right and the rest of the world is wrong. I'll begin distributing memos to have all the definitions changed immediately.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
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You are right and the rest of the world is wrong. I'll begin distributing memos to have all the definitions changed immediately.

The definition doesn't need to be changed. Why would it?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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Maybe you're thinking of someone else? Which examples?
Bolded:
Clearly their examples don't all fit their definition.



Unless by racist he means the comment of a racist. So you have to read it as, "Any old comment I make is immediately construed by some to be the comment of a racist."

I guess that makes sense, if he's racist (or assumed to be), since he does say "any comment." Any comment he makes then rightly would be a construed to be the comment made by a racist person. Though if he says something like, "nice weather today," his racism probably isn't relevant.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
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Yeah. They don't all, but I only have issue with one. So it's example, not examples.
I'm sure all the other dictionaries have similar examples so we'll have to get them all changed up for you.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
I'm sure all the other dictionaries have similar examples so we'll have to get them all changed up for you.

You have a definition with three examples. One of them is problematic, and your solution is to change the definition? sheeeit dawg. Lateral thinking.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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You have a definition with three examples. One of them is problematic, and your solution is to change the definition? sheeeit dawg. Lateral thinking.
No, no, just the examples. I consider the examples to be part of the overall definition. We should make sure Oxford doesn't contradict you.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
No, no, just the examples. I consider the examples to be part of the overall definition. We should make sure Oxford doesn't contradict you.

Just one example, so they don't contradict themselves. So you really think apples can be racist?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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Just one example, so they don't contradict themselves. So you really think apples can be racist?

Do you really think that one nonsensical example invalidates all examples you don't agree with?
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Do you really think that one nonsensical example invalidates all examples you don't agree with?

It invalidates your claim that any adjective can be used with any noun. What about the ambivalent potato? Why not racist apple if racist comment?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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It invalidates your claim that any adjective can be used with any noun. What about the ambivalent potato? Why not racist apple if racist comment?
You seem to have misunderstood the point I was making there. You can modify any noun with an adjective and it would be grammatically correct.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
What about an albino black person? Hopefully now you understand why you should be careful with broad generalizations.

ugh, I don't usually make posts on weekend, but this post was deserving of a reply.

I specifically stated black people have more pigment, not though of african decent. There is a difference. If your skin is black you have more pigment. An albino is not a black person, although they may be of african decent. I was making a point that you CAN state that certain DNA trace markers are able t categorize any person. That is how science works.

There is a reason why DNA evidence to this day can help police find suspects better for cases. A little bit of DNA can tell the race, skin color, hair color, eye color, and sex of a person. There is work to use those genetic markers to figure out even more descriptive and categorical traits for a given person based on their DNA.

Again, categorizing and recognizing that there are differences in DNA, thus differences in "races" or groups of people, helps things like science, medicine, and other professional fields.

For example, those of african decent are prone to sickle cell anemia more than those that aren't. That doesn't mean all those of african decent will have that disease, just that they are more likely to be born with it. Which means a doctor can now test babies of african decent for such a disease. Early targetted screening helps doctors find out better what can be done for correctional treatment if needed.

Realizing that there are differences in the races is not racism as I have clearly demonstrated with my examples. Ascribing a "better' or "worse" based on difference is what constitutes actual racism.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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It's not my definition, and those aren't the implications. The first is an expression of opinion/belief regarding race, while the latter is a benign statement of fact involving race. We don't need to be 100% certain what's in his mind to react to it. Of course it's evidence of racism? It's just not itself racist. That cop is very likely racist, given the context. His text messages aren't racist.

I don't understand why you want it to be so badly. There are no down-sides, and the upside is less needless offense being taken, less pc nonsense, less senseless controversy like what you see all the time with people like kramer, jeremy clarkson, sarah silverman, etc. Why is it more acceptable for black people to use the n word? Maybe because we consider context and give them the benefit of the doubt that they probably don't think of black people as inferior, since they're black (but they could).

Anyway, intent and context are important. Your understanding either ignores intent and context or subconsciously (and inconsistently) incorporates them anyway. We don't gain anything by calling expressions racist. It doesn't mean we can't identify racists.

My apologies. This was very nicely put. Thank you.
 
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