do you discuss your salary with co-workers?

[SKORPI0]

We also discuss penis size.

probably a short conversation.

It's not the size, it's how you use it to get the desired result.

Exact amount no, it's none of their business.

 

[GT1999]

Yes... And I don't recommend doing it. I got a few "why don't I make that much" responses...

 

[sactoking]

For whatever reason in America it's a taboo discussion. People seem to think that "no good can come of it" (to whit, the responses in this thread). In reality, if private employers disclosed the pay of all employees, at least within the organization, it would quickly solve all sorts of personnel problems and everyone would be happier in the long run.

 

[nageov3t]

For whatever reason in America it's a taboo discussion. People seem to think that "no good can come of it" (to whit, the responses in this thread). In reality, if private employers disclosed the pay of all employees, at least within the organization, it would quickly solve all sorts of personnel problems and everyone would be happier in the long run.

my own experience has been that pretty much everyone sees themselves as the best/most valuable person in their department... if they learn that people they see as less valuable as them are making more, the response isn't "wow, I wonder what I could be doing better so that I can earn a bigger raise," it's "omg, I can't believe my boss likes him better. fuck this place, he must be blowing the boss in the bathroom or something."

 

[Skel]

I don’t, and personally I don’t think it’s anyone’s business what arrangements someone has with their employers. I have a co-worker that keeps bringing it up and trying to find out what everyone’s making, and it’s really fucking annoying.

 

[Bignate603]

my own experience has been that pretty much everyone sees themselves as the best/most valuable person in their department... if they learn that people they see as less valuable as them are making more, the response isn't "wow, I wonder what I could be doing better so that I can earn a bigger raise," it's "omg, I can't believe my boss likes him better. fuck this place, he must be blowing the boss in the bathroom or something."

This. The boss and HR would end up getting tons of complaints.

 

[purbeast0]

i've been discussing it recently with one of my coworkers, but we're in totally different fields. he's a business analyst and i'm a software developer.

the reason we've been discussing it though is because we're both looking for new jobs.

 

[sactoking]

my own experience has been that pretty much everyone sees themselves as the best/most valuable person in their department... if they learn that people they see as less valuable as them are making more, the response isn't "wow, I wonder what I could be doing better so that I can earn a bigger raise," it's "omg, I can't believe my boss likes him better. fuck this place, he must be blowing the boss in the bathroom or something."

That happens in the current system, only its worse because people speculate without knowing (in re salaries).

Most people, given an honest performance evaluation system with defined and achievable metrics, are reasonable. There are some people who will always believe they're god's gift, but by posting the information you actually encourage them to leave, which is better than having them stay and poison morale.

 

[Matthiasa]

They say to keep it confidential though say that nearly everyone starts the same.
Given the wide variety of positions they also said that doesn't stay like that very long.

 

[sactoking]

This. The boss and HR would end up getting tons of complaints.

Only if they've set up a pay system that's invites complaints. If Secretary A is paid $36k and Secretary B is paid $60K, Secretary A is likely to spend time trying to find out how much Secretary B is paid, gossiping about Secretary B, getting mad when he finds out the pay differential, then quitting in a huff.

If it's disclosed HR can get ahead of the issue and say Secretary A has an AA degree and 2 years experience and makes $36k and Secretary B has a BA degree, 15 years experience, some special training, and an industry designation and makes $60k. If Secretary A wants to make $60k he knows what he has to do to get to Secretary B's level.

If Secretary A and B are exactly equally qualified and the pay is that disparate then either:
1) The company can reduce Secretary B's salary (assuming it is above market); or
2) The company can increase Secretary A's salary (regardless of whether B is above market)
Otherwise Secretary A will leave and the position won't be filled until the pay is equalized.

Not only does disclosure contribute to defined and meaningful advancement paths for employees, but it also keeps employers honest by preventing "sweetheart" pay deals (usually for family, friends, and sexual partners).

 

[Dr. Zaus]

my own experience has been that pretty much everyone sees themselves as the best/most valuable person in their department... if they learn that people they see as less valuable as them are making more, the response isn't "wow, I wonder what I could be doing better so that I can earn a bigger raise," it's "omg, I can't believe my boss likes him better. fuck this place, he must be blowing the boss in the bathroom or something."

Which is why the idea of someone being 3x as productive with the same title is asinine. Equality of pay within equal titles solves the problem and makes everyone happier. Equal pay for equal work, create a new job title (duck eater level 4.3 if you need) if there is some substantive difference in performance.

sactoking: You in HR?

 

[nageov3t]

Which is why the idea of someone being 3x as productive with the same title is asinine. Equality of pay within equal titles solves the problem and makes everyone happier. Equal pay for equal work, create a new job title (duck eater level 4.3 if you need) if there is some substantive difference in performance.

sactoking: You in HR?

how would you handle merit-based raises, then?

it's not as if one can have a different title every year, but when my boss decides one year that the guy who's been staying late every night and working his ass off deserves a bigger raise than the guy spends his whole shift watching the clock and doing the bare minimum to contribute without standing out, discrepancies start to develop.

 

[Rage187]

I may make more than my equals but I also have my own health insurance through my wife's work which has to be savings of thousands of dollars a year for low deductible health plan. In a way, I'm cheaper.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

how would you handle merit-based raises, then?

it's not as if one can have a different title every year, but when my boss decides one year that the guy who's been staying late every night and working his ass off deserves a bigger raise than the guy spends his whole shift watching the clock and doing the bare minimum to contribute without standing out, discrepancies start to develop.

In this senario performance reviews are being done wrong.

Performance review should not be a stick, or carrot, except in extreme circumstances. Rather it should be a review of what objectives the worker is reaching toward and the progress being made. Work should be developmental of people, not just a way to induce greater productivity.

If the guy is staying late when needed, being a team player and otherwise meeting objectives while another isn't then it is unfair to pay the second guy more. Unfortunately, this simplistic dyadic/triadic relationship is unlikely. There are, more than likely, many others in the organization that are at about the same level, many of whom are achieving objectives at varying degrees of competency.

In your example the problem isn't that the top guy fails to get paid more, the problem is that the bottom guy is at the company at all. If someone consistently fails to make progress toward review objectives then that person needs to be eliminated; weather they get paid more or less this peson will infect others with the mentality of job shirking.

People have a very hard time distinguishing between more than about five levels of difference. Two of those levels are "extremely" high or low, and one of those is "about the same. Since there is a LOT of personal bias involved in making decisions about who is 'notably, but not extremely' higher or lower in productivity, it is best not to reward or fail to reward based on this. Instead, absolute stars should receive promotions and absolute dogs should be shot.

 

[nageov3t]

maybe I've just been unlucky. hah. it seems like everywhere I've worked, there's a contingent of people who do enough work where there's really no cause to reprimand or criticize them, but it's still noticeably less than the few who really go above and beyond (eg: workaholics like me )

so, where the solid B student might get a normal cost of living raise, the A student would get an extra couple percentage points onto that just to show that their extra work is financially appreciated.

 

[edro]

No.

When a new guy was laid off (bad timing), I asked him wheat he made (since it didn't matter anymore).

He was making more than me and I worked there 5 years and was his senior.
I found a new job a few months later and got a 20% increase.
Was a great move...

 

[Juked07]

Culturally unacceptable almost everywhere in the US.. not sure if that's the way it should be.

Personally I'm in a position where it's hard to know how much I'm really worth, and my skills are becoming pretty niche. I don't think knowing what coworkers get paid would change anything except perhaps cause awkwardness. I guess I'll just have to rely on the continued generosity of my employer.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

We also discuss penis size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymIAAts6U-4&t=1m8s
:whiste:

 

[shortylickens]

Accidentally did once. Caused issues. I was making a lot less than my associates (like 75%) and they were worried they'd be docked come negotiation time. Learned to keep my mouth shut.

 

[TheSiege]

FYI you cant be fired for talking about your salary. The government supersedes your companys policy.

 

[Baked]

FYI you cant be fired for talking about your salary. The government supersedes your companys policy.

I don't have to fire you, I have ways to return the favor of misery if you act like a douchebag and announce your salary to everybody in the fucking company.

 

[TheSiege]

I don't have to fire you, I have ways to return the favor of misery if you act like a douchebag and announce your salary to everybody in the fucking company.

How is that being a douchebag, if the company were being fair then they have no need to worry about animosity and drama.

 

[brianmanahan]

How is that being a d*******g, if the company were being fair then they have no need to worry about animosity and drama.

:thumbsup:

 

[Bignate603]

How is that being a douchebag, if the company were being fair then they have no need to worry about animosity and drama.

The company being fair (compensating you for your value you bring) and people thinking the company is being fair are two very different things.

 

[Ryland]

I don't generally discuss salary with anyone, especially coworkers.