Do you exceed daily recommended sodium intake? Yes, you do.

[Doppel]

I have been religiously I tracking all intake on fitday this past week. Further, I am at a fairly serious calorie deficit. Nonetheless, even eating virtually no processed food I have found it a challenge to stay under 1500mg of sodium a day. However, I have been--at least until supper tonight when had some precooked chicken and one serving of that alone had 2/3 of th day's intake.

I would be very surprised if even 5% of the population eats under the recommended max. Even people who eat nothing but salad are eating huge amounts of it in all kinds of dressings. And virtually anything canned is packed to the hilt with it unless specifically th ow sodium version is bought.

 

[Bateluer]

The amount of sodium in foods is insane. There are some soups at Fresh 'n' Easy, where I do the bulk of my grocery shopping, that have 1900mg of sodium in them. Cheap preservative.

 

[Baked]

2400mg. Yeah, I crush that number just by eating breakfast, homemade breakfast. But I use low sodium bacon now.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

1500mg is not the recommended dosage. That would be the recommended amount for a small female, not an average male. Most suggest for the average male ~2000-2400mg. Also, research shows that regulating salt intake so much really isn't a big deal. The physiologic mechanism described for sodium's relationship to blood pressure is sound, but research doesn't second that relationship. Summary: does it matter if you exceed daily recommended sodium intake? Not if you're otherwise healthy. This isn't an excuse to eat a bunch of junk, but it's not the first thing you should be worried about in your diet.

 

[Doppel]

1500mg is not the recommended dosage. That would be the recommended amount for a small female, not an average male. Most suggest for the average male ~2000-2400mg. Also, research shows that regulating salt intake so much really isn't a big deal. The physiologic mechanism described for sodium's relationship to blood pressure is sound, but research doesn't second that relationship. Summary: does it matter if you exceed daily recommended sodium intake? Not if you're otherwise healthy. This isn't an excuse to eat a bunch of junk, but it's not the first thing you should be worried about in your diet.

This is substantially true, but "otherwise healthy" is an increasingly limited category. It is still advised to limit sodium intake to this level, and although it barely lowers blood pressure in people with normal blood pressure, the massive number of millions in the US with high blood pressure do benefit mildly from a reduction in sodium.

On the flip side, getting the recommended amount of potassium (4.5 grams I think) is also quite difficult and requires a seriously heavy intake of veggies or fruit. Bananas are known as high potassium, for example, and you'd need to eat 10 of them in a day to hit the level.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

This is substantially true, but "otherwise healthy" is an increasingly limited category. It is still advised to limit sodium intake to this level, and although it barely lowers blood pressure in people with normal blood pressure, the massive number of millions in the US with high blood pressure do benefit mildly from a reduction in sodium.

On the flip side, getting the recommended amount of potassium (4.5 grams I think) is also quite difficult and requires a seriously heavy intake of veggies or fruit. Bananas are known as high potassium, for example, and you'd need to eat 10 of them in a day to hit the level.

Actually, I don't even think research shows it's important in individuals with pathology either. I'll have to re-check the research I've read, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter, even in hypertensive patients.

And yeah, potassium is really hard to get enough of.

 

[cdr]

Seems to be contested (like every single thing about nutrition), but: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/o...-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?_r=1 (warning, Taubes).

The often-cited DASH study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results) found a pretty strong correlation between decreasing sodium intake and blood pressure reduction, abeit a pretty modest effect. Taubes dismisses it above because it didn't track health outcomes.

Anyway, it does at least seem there's not any reason to believe that limiting sodium intake for someone with normal blood pressure will have any positive effect.

Personally, my blood pressure is on the lower side of normal and I don't worry much about sodium.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Seems to be contested (like every single thing about nutrition), but: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/o...-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?_r=1 (warning, Taubes).

The often-cited DASH study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results) found a pretty strong correlation between decreasing sodium intake and blood pressure reduction, abeit a pretty modest effect. Taubes dismisses it above because it didn't track health outcomes.

Anyway, it does at least seem there's not any reason to believe that limiting sodium intake for someone with normal blood pressure will have any positive effect.

Personally, my blood pressure is on the lower side of normal and I don't worry much about sodium.

Most articles nowadays still don't find a significant difference, which hints that the DASH study may have had faulty methods or different statistics run on the data.

 

[cdr]

Most articles nowadays still don't find a significant difference, which hints that the DASH study may have had faulty methods or different statistics run on the data.

Even while arguing that low sodium intake is likely harmful, Taubes seems to respect the DASH study and accept that lowering sodium intake modestly affects blood pressure. The meta-study he cites also found a modest effect.

The DASH study (to my amateur eyes) seems to have been very well designed and run, and I haven't seen anyone point to a study as strong that had differing results.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing and this is probably nitpicking, but I think you'd be on firmer ground arguing that a) the effect is modest b) there's no evidence of benefit - rather than arguing that there's no effect like it seems you might be.

 

[Doppel]

Some references here on sodium intake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_salt#Recommended_intake

I know what SC is referring to. Yesterday I did find a study concluding they couldn't really recommend lower salt for the average person, but at least in the short term for those with high blood pressure it lowered it. Still, most national dietary leads are still recommending it be kept at an amount lower then what most consume it at.

 

[blinky8225]

On the flip side, getting the recommended amount of potassium (4.5 grams I think) is also quite difficult and requires a seriously heavy intake of veggies or fruit. Bananas are known as high potassium, for example, and you'd need to eat 10 of them in a day to hit the level.

I'm not sure why this isn't more widely known, but potassium is found in more than fruits and vegetables. Meat is a very good source of potassium. If meat, fruits, and vegetables form the basis of your diet (therefore, a somewhat paleo diet), meeting your potassium requirements is fairly trivial. Unfortunately, the grains, starches, and other sugary processed foods that make up the majority of most Americans' diets contain very little potassium.

Sources:
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09355.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002413.htm

 

[Megatomic]

Just to argue the extreme flip side of this: I go out of my way to ingest more salt (and potassium). I don't like the flavor of food with too much salt in it so I can't just hit the shaker like many people can. I wind up eating SaltStick caps and other similar products to keep enough electrolytes in my system.

I should eat more cured meat I guess.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Balsamic vingier for salad dressing. Only balsamic vinigar!

OK, not really what I do. Stuff is too acidic. I usually use it with a 50/50 mix of some Kraft off hte shelf dressing.

 

[tedrodai]

Lowering my salt intake definitely lowered my blood pressure back when I was concerned with it. I initially changed absolutely nothing but the amount of salt intake and my average blood pressure went from the "High Normal" range on this chart (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressure.htm) to below to below 120/80 on average. I can't tell you how much salt I was eating, because I'm not exactly sure; but cutting out things like soup, added salt to meals, and avoiding very salty recipes & menu items is what helped. Later, a consistent exercise routine helped my BP quite a bit more. Not sure how changing my salt intake now would affect me, but it got to where I don't like really salty foods anymore.

Not trying to refute studies or anything, but there are definitely cases where limiting salt intake is helpful.

 

[Doppel]

Lowering my salt intake definitely lowered my blood pressure back when I was concerned with it. I initially changed absolutely nothing but the amount of salt intake and my average blood pressure went from the "High Normal" range on this chart (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressure.htm) to below to below 120/80 on average. I can't tell you how much salt I was eating, because I'm not exactly sure; but cutting out things like soup, added salt to meals, and avoiding very salty recipes & menu items is what helped. Later, a consistent exercise routine helped my BP quite a bit more. Not sure how changing my salt intake now would affect me, but it got to where I don't like really salty foods anymore.

Not trying to refute studies or anything, but there are definitely cases where limiting salt intake is helpful.

Glad to hear that. I'm in a similar boat. Looking at my weight, risk factors, genes, age, etc. my BP shouldn't be anywhere near where it is. I don't quite have "high blood pressure" yet, but it's definitely higher than it should be. I am dropping what excess fat I have, but also militantly watching diet intake and after 30 days hoping to see some improvement. If I do I'll continue on this path and keep removing last vestiges of excess fat while locking in diet. Otherwise, see what a cardiologist thinks (read: pills, probably). There are some people who are very sensitive to sodium intake. You may have been one and I'm hoping I am one, too. And whether it's a reduction in sodium or some ancillary benefit of my diet (more potatssium, less sugar, etc.) I suppose the ends will justify the means.

From what studies I've gleaned, the changes in diet should have a mild, but significant impact, and so should losing weight (apparently even 10 lbs can improve blood pressure to a measurable degree).

-----

Thanks to socialchallenge for pointing out that RDA is more like 2.5 grams, not 1.5 for a male.

 

[Awkward]

Sodium is an essential element like everything else. I'm consuming far more sodium than the recommended daily, and on check ups my doctor routinely compliments my low blood pressure.

Linking this again:

http://healthyfixx.com/39/low-salt-diets-can-kill

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Lowering my salt intake definitely lowered my blood pressure back when I was concerned with it. I initially changed absolutely nothing but the amount of salt intake and my average blood pressure went from the "High Normal" range on this chart (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressure.htm) to below to below 120/80 on average. I can't tell you how much salt I was eating, because I'm not exactly sure; but cutting out things like soup, added salt to meals, and avoiding very salty recipes & menu items is what helped. Later, a consistent exercise routine helped my BP quite a bit more. Not sure how changing my salt intake now would affect me, but it got to where I don't like really salty foods anymore.

Not trying to refute studies or anything, but there are definitely cases where limiting salt intake is helpful.

Did you also change the rest of your diet? Did you lose weight? There are far more effective interventions than cutting out soup. If I remember correctly, you can get a 2-4mm Hg drop in your BP with effective reduction of dietary sodium. You get way, way more than that with other dietary modifications and weight loss. Might not be the salt that did it, if you were dieting/losing weight as well.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't modify your sodium intake if you have high BP. I'm totally for that. I'm just arguing that if you have to focus your time on something to reduce BP, there are way more effective things to attend to. Lemme find some of the previous notes I have on this and I'll contribute something with a little bit more helpful substance.

 

[Doppel]

Sodium is an essential element like everything else. I'm consuming far more sodium than the recommended daily, and on check ups my doctor routinely compliments my low blood pressure.

Linking this again:

http://healthyfixx.com/39/low-salt-diets-can-kill

That article starts with "At this point in time has anyone not heard that eating salt is bad for your blood pressure and overall health? Not likely.". I don't think anybody says salt is bad. This is about the amount a person needs, not whether they need it.

That link is worth reading, but it also states that "[I pressume the word high here] blood pressure does not cause heart attacks" and links to this: http://healthyfixx.com/7/is-that-blood-pressure-medication-necessary

Which supposedly quotes from a review with " “To date, there is no evidence to support treating patients with uncomplicated hypertension to blood pressure goals lower than the standard blood pressure target of less than or equal to 140 to 160/90 to 100 mmHg.” No evidence? There are REAMS of it.

So, now 160/100 doesn't need to be lowered? That is not a standard BP target at all, where did they get this from--it's major hypertension, not far off from a medical emergency (180/110). http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...lood-Pressure-Readings_UCM_301764_Article.jsp

AHA also says that HBP can lead to issues leading to a heart attack: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...is-High-Blood-Pressure_UCM_301759_Article.jsp

"Uncomplicated hypertension" is and of itself a complication. It's known as the silent killer because you can have it for years with its damage occurring but no symptoms.

Your first link picks and chooses. Example:
"A 2003 study out of Glasgow revealed the unimpressive results of long term salt restriction, showing an average drop in systolic pressure by 1.1 mmHg and an average drop in diastolic pressure by 0.6 mmHg. [4]" Congrats to them. There are other studies showing far more significant reductions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771382/
"In evaluations of hypertensive cohorts, dietary salt restriction lowers systolic BP by 2–10 mm Hg and diastolic BP by 1–6 mm Hg."

Reduction is more notable in those with high BP.

Your second link says treat the cause not symptoms and this is wise, but often the cause is not known--essential hypertension.

Your source's stance on BP is not endorsed by any major medical association I've happened upon, certainly not the american heart association, for example. It reads like the author knows just enough to be dangerous; looking for a study that supports his stance and rejecting those that don't. I dare say a scant few at best cardiologists would endorse his view on blood pressure.

 

[Awkward]

Your source's stance on BP is not endorsed by any major medical association I've happened upon, certainly not the american heart association, for example. It reads like the author knows just enough to be dangerous; looking for a study that supports his stance and rejecting those that don't. I dare say a scant few at best cardiologists would endorse his view on blood pressure.

Salt is just the new egg, that's all.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt


experts still finding links to salt and BP inconclusive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058046

 

[Doppel]

Salt is just the new egg, that's all.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt


experts still finding links to salt and BP inconclusive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058046

Your first link doesn't throw out recommendations to lower sodium in people with HBP but does challenge the idea that we all eat too much.

Your second link doesn't assert that salt and BP are inconclusive. In fact it says A modest reduction in salt intake results in an immediate decrease in blood pressure, with long-term beneficial consequences. Specifically the link addresses variances in salt sensitivity.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/03/salt.heart.attack/index.html

Huh? Low-salt diet ups risk of fatal heart attack?

He and his coauthors emphasize, however, that people with hypertension -- who were not included in the study -- will still benefit from a low-salt diet...We know that not everybody is as sensitive to sodium in their diet as others. Even among people with high blood pressure, no more than half are probably sodium sensitive, and in the general population, it's probably less than 10 percent

------------------

Until a group like the AHA, which has access to all these studies as well, starts changing their recommendations on lifestyle, one needs to be very careful not to ignore wholesale large amounts of advice, based on hundreds or studies, and interpreted by experts in their field.

 

[tedrodai]

Did you also change the rest of your diet? Did you lose weight? There are far more effective interventions than cutting out soup. If I remember correctly, you can get a 2-4mm Hg drop in your BP with effective reduction of dietary sodium. You get way, way more than that with other dietary modifications and weight loss. Might not be the salt that did it, if you were dieting/losing weight as well.

I'm not arguing that you shouldn't modify your sodium intake if you have high BP. I'm totally for that. I'm just arguing that if you have to focus your time on something to reduce BP, there are way more effective things to attend to. Lemme find some of the previous notes I have on this and I'll contribute something with a little bit more helpful substance.

Well, I'll put it this way: perhaps it's going too far to say that only the salt reduction helped me drop my BP that much, but my weight and level of exercise (some but not overly consistent exercise) stayed the same. The only change I made was dietary, and the only indicator I used to alter my diet was how much sodium was present in the foods available. There was probably a minor ripple effect in my diet, but it was still pretty atrocious overall. For me it was a 1st step towards eventually trying to learn about healthy eating, but it took me a while yet.

At the time I was giving blood ~4-5 times a year, which along with a couple of other things (like how I felt at times lol) really made me concious of my BP. The salt reduction definitely helped me a lot, though I don't doubt your statement about more effective ways. Since then I HAVE modified my lifestyle for the better and simply made that mindset change that keeps me motivated to do so. I don't worry so much about my sodium intake anymore, but I still stay away from the really loaded stuff...I just try to be moderate with it.

 

[AE-Ruffy]

I take in 3000-5500mg of sodium every day as I'm on a Ketogenic diet. My blood pressure has gone down. I drink a gallon of water if not more every day and take potassium and magnesium.

I went from 160/90 prior to keto to 120/80 after

 

[Doppel]

I went from 160/90 prior to keto to 120/80 after

Impressive!

 

[preslove]

I dont understand why there would be an absolute recommended salt intake when salt is excreted through sweat, and people sweat differently depending on genetics and lifestyle. I sweat buckets when I do cardio, so shouldn't I ingest more sodium when I am exercising regularly?

 

[Megatomic]

I dont understand why there would be an absolute recommended salt intake when salt is excreted through sweat, and people sweat differently depending on genetics and lifestyle. I sweat buckets when I do cardio, so shouldn't I ingest more sodium when I am exercising regularly?

I KNOW this: I have to. If I didn't I'd be hyponatremic within a few workouts.

Mayo Clinic on hyponatremia