Do you hate Windows XP

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loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
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Originally posted by: grrl
I used XP on my parents' computer last summer and was happy to get back to my 2K machine. I liked the fast boot up on XP, but that was about all. Plus, the fact that about $300 worth of my software doesn't run properly on XP.
What software?
 

sparky853

Member
Mar 6, 2004
27
0
0
Over all, its really a toss-up as to which is better. I think I would have to say windows 2000 though.

I have XP Pro on my machine at work and 2K Pro on my 3 machines at home...Never have any problems with any of them....
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,742
569
126
Originally posted by: sparky853
Over all, its really a toss-up as to which is better. I think I would have to say windows 2000 though.

I have XP Pro on my machine at work and 2K Pro on my 3 machines at home...Never have any problems with any of them....

They are both nice offering by microsoft, and both put microsofts previous efforts to shame. With 2000, MS basically took the solid NT kernal, slapped Win98's interface, PNP and more features into it. XP is just 2000 with little tykes on top and a slightly higher price tag. Thats it. There is really is no reason whatsoever to go to XP if you're already on 2K that I can see.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
I`ve been using XP since its first release,all I can say is after the first 6 months or so where they ironed out the big bugs,it has been awesome, no crashes or BSOD(apart from faulty ram and bad CPU) even after several of my upgrades,which include VIA,SiS,nForce chipsets.

I feel XP for me is perfect on stability,2K owners sorry there`s a new king in town and 2K is on the backrow,I`ll never go back to 2K .

Bottom line is XP has matured over the years,ram is cheap to buy so there`s no excuse about needing " X amount" of ram to run XP,there`re no excuses.



 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,542
10,167
126
Originally posted by: MrChad
BSOD are usually the fault of hardware and/or drivers, not Windows
See related funny story

Btw, there's something that I've recently noticed about XP SP1. When I have had application windows minimized for some time, and then I restore them (when they were maximized), sometimes, that also sets their non-maximized window-size to be the size of the entire screen, and forgets the previous, non-maximumized size. It is by far one of the most annoying things yet that I've found with XP.

Does anyone know how to disable this totally-broken behavior? It happens to all of my apps, so it's definately an XP thing, not an app thing. This never happened in W2K.

 

JackNaylorPE

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2004
18
0
0
I read the whole thread and say a lot of "I like this" but most had no specific reasons. I have a mix of NT4, NT5.0 (Win2k) and NT5.1 (XP) on a 9 machine network and I'd say this:

1. With same software running on all 3 boxes, it invariably runs faster on NT4, 2nd fastest on NT5 and slowest on NT5.1.....for example......AutoCAD opens in 4 seconds on a P600 NT4 box, 23 seconds on Win2k P700.....the 3.4 Ghz box on XP is better but can't touch NT4's performance. With DirectX improvements, I don't include games for obvious reasons.

2. I have more hardware problems with XP than I do with Win2k. For example, my son got a new Saitek gamers keyboard for X-Mas....it won't install correctly in WinXP , does fine in Win2k

3. Same son, same 3.4 GHz XP box, so far 1/4 of the games (year 200 vintage) I have tried to install won't run, even in compatability mode.

4. DRM

5. Bloat

6. XP Home uselss in a 5+ machine home network.

7. Don't like WU2 (which is also in Win2kSP3)

I got more but that's enuff for now



 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
I used to use XP, but never had a good experience with them, just like every other Windows OS. I am jynxed when it comes to Windows. But I dont hate Windows.
 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
1
0
Stop making fun of OS 9! If you know how to allocate more memory to a program, then you are good to go. OS 9 doesnt crash for me!
 

smp

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2000
5,215
0
76
OS9 is a bane!

I support a whole slew of mobile users at a college .. XP > 2k
When someone comes to me with win2k I cringe.
XP is easier to "idiot proof" than 2k is. I like it at home too.


To that guy who complained about ISA nics not working in XP .. well, yeah you can say that, but then I guess you can be bitter that you can't use your old EDO ram that you have so much of and your old school keyboard that won't work in your new computer .. get with the program. I'll mail you a 3com PCI nic if you're that hurting for one.
Who wants to use 10mbit NICs anyways? (granted i use one in my router box, but it's linux and a router box and wouldn't benefit from anything beefier).

 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
1. With same software running on all 3 boxes, it invariably runs faster on NT4, 2nd fastest on NT5 and slowest on NT5.1.....for example......AutoCAD opens in 4 seconds on a P600 NT4 box, 23 seconds on Win2k P700.....the 3.4 Ghz box on XP is better but can't touch NT4's performance. With DirectX improvements, I don't include games for obvious reasons.

You also left out security.

2. I have more hardware problems with XP than I do with Win2k. For example, my son got a new Saitek gamers keyboard for X-Mas....it won't install correctly in WinXP , does fine in Win2k

Contact your hardware manufacturer, that's a 3rd party issue. Why they can't get it working when other joysticks do work on XP is beyond me. This is also a single example, I find XP to be much more hardware friendly, and I have it installed on hundreds of machines from PIIs to PIV, laptops and desktops.

3. Same son, same 3.4 GHz XP box, so far 1/4 of the games (year 200 vintage) I have tried to install won't run, even in compatability mode.

Perhaps your having other issues. Most people can run pre-2000 games on XP. Not all games, but most.

4. DRM

That's your choice, I don't have issues with it. Can you elaborate why?

5. Bloat

FUD

6. XP Home uselss in a 5+ machine home network.

Think about that. Home and 5+ machine network... Doesn't really sound like a "home" environment, perhaps you should try "pro," which is designed for larger networks.

7. Don't like WU2 (which is also in Win2kSP3)

I don't like cream cheese, but if you get behind on service packs your getting behind of security. I'd rather eat cream cheese and be secure, than be insecure. Can you elaborate why?
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,742
569
126
Originally posted by: smp
To that guy who complained about ISA nics not working in XP .. well, yeah you can say that, but then I guess you can be bitter that you can't use your old EDO ram that you have so much of and your old school keyboard that won't work in your new computer .. get with the program. I'll mail you a 3com PCI nic if you're that hurting for one.
Who wants to use 10mbit NICs anyways? (granted i use one in my router box, but it's linux and a router box and wouldn't benefit from anything beefier).

Please do send me a new NIC card.

EDO ram is due to the motherboard not supporting it, it has nothing to do with an operating system. You can run windows XP with EDO ram. And AT keyboards work fine on new computers, with the addition of a $0.50 adaptor. There's no difference between them at all. The only thing that has changed about keyboards since the IBM PC was originally introduced is the shape of their connector and the addition of some extra buttons.

Get with the program? A bit of research revealed that the only reason old Non-PNP hardware is no longer supported is because microsoft is to lazy to do so. The drivers for the old 3com NIC I had were included, but the installation file was not to prevent its functioning.

And why would I want it...you answered your own question with your router box example. Thats not just a linux domain. (Although I just have a million of them lying around and felt it was wasteful to toss them when they could be put to use elsewhere)

My 3com ISA NIC pwns you all!
 

JackNaylorPE

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2004
18
0
0
One part of the bloat is this. With NT4 I had made a bootable CD-ROM for every box on my network. A HD got toasted, I'd plug in a new one, stick in the bootable CD (with partitioning and tape backup software) and restore the system in minutes. Now I can't walk away from such an install, I gotta sit and swap media till its done. WinXP is just Win2k with a bunch of annoyances thrown in and a lot of our privacy rights thrown out. I think what offend most people though is that program performance peaked with NT4. Customization peaked with NT4......we got to play games better, had some stuff thrown in for unknowledgeable folks that protects them but drastically hinders the knowledgeable. And for going from a 160 MB footptint to a 2000 MB footprint all I got out of it was USB support and "hot docking" both of which are things that i thought I wanted but can't really say I needed.
 

JackNaylorPE

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2004
18
0
0
Left out security ? Are you saying my behind the hardware firewall NT4 box, which is wholly immune to any MSIE or Outlook Express vulnerability simply because those files don't exist on my box, and behind Zone Alarm Pro with every security update ever issued by MS is less secure than my WinXP boxes ? I have been "sysoping / wizoping" on line since the early 1980's and have never had an infection of any manner or form. Running XP on a brand new box, as yet unconnected to a network cable gets 5 - 8 hits from a ad and spyware scan. The mere presence of MSIE and OE in XP makes it inherently less secure. I can't yank MSIE or OE out of those XP boxes leaving them wholly exposed to security vulnerabilities like the spoofing whopper publicized on the 17th which to my knowledge still isn't fixed.

Contact my hardware manufacturer, that's a 3rd party issue ???? A third party issue that didn't exist until SP2 ????? there's over 200 programs / hardware drivers that stopped working immediately upon the release of SP2....and that's only what MS themselves have published. And I did speak to the manufacturer who told me it is a known problem with the onboard Intel USB controller and WinXPSp2. Spoke to Intel and they said it is a known problem but that Microsoft is responsible for fixing the problem. MS hasn't responded.

Yes I have issues with DRM. I have issues with shrink wrap agreements that I can not see before I buy, well until yesterday....if ya haven't heard Ms. Baker just won her court case and the courts said if I don't see the EULA before I buy, store / manufacturer must give me my money back.....Said agremeents say that they have the right to shut my software down remotely if they have "reason to believe" I am using their products inappropriately. These agreemeets also say that I can not hold them liable for damages for taking my machines out of service when it turn sout they were wrong. So Autodesk / MS or whomever shuts down my machine and I now have an employee sitting at his desk for 2 weeks twiddling his thumbs before they write back and say "whoops, we made a mistake". I gotta take $15k outta my pocket cause they made a mistake ? No, that doesn't sit well with me.

FUD....if that stands for "Funds" as in out of pocket and "unneccesary delays" then the letters are appropriate. Look at the performance figures for when MSIE and all related junk alone is yanked out of the OS. 15% in Adobe Publishing for example. As a businessman, I want the greatest ROI, I can get on my purchases. The fact is NT4 w/o MSIE and all that bloat runs programs much faster than WinXP does. You can't call an OS that runs programs slower an "upgrade". It wasn't true when Win95 came out and benchmarked 40% slower than W4WGs and it isn't true now.

XP-Home is a product without a real market as I see it....at least in suburbia. The average american family has two adults, 2.4 kids and today, at least one relative living there temporarily. That's 5.4 people per household. I have to shell out for a business OS for an 8 year old to use XP Pro cause XP-Home in a 6 machine household is the proverbial "mammaries on a bull".

I don't like invasions of privacy and that's why I don't like WU2. Can you tell me how WU2 is any more secure than WU1 ? In WU1, they made a point of telling you they weren't invading your privacy with the big splash screen telling you that during the Windows Update process, NO INFORMATION was being sent to Microsoft. The only difference between WU1 and WU2 is that in WU1, you downloaded a list from MS and a comparison of what you got versus what you should have was done on YOUR computer. In WU2, it's done on MS servers, giving them the opportunity to see exactly what you have in your machine. So why was this done ? Its the same exact list....so why change it unless you want to see the collected information ?

Whether that bothers you or not depends upon how much you trust MS. Since they have committed perjury on numerous occassions, faked tests, lied extensively, illegally bound products together, bullied suppliers, etc, no I do not trust them. Even if you select "disable" for WU, it does not really disable anything. It still snoops and reads your Hard Drive, collecting all the information, it just takes no action after doing so. For what purpose is this taking place ? Whe even have a "disable" choice ? With WU surgically disabled, as with Xp-antispy, you are no less safe than you are w/ it as long as you make frequent vists to the link below or use a 3rd party product like BigFix:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx

The last 20 years have been characterized by pundits commenting on american culture as too focused on form rather than substance. The Microsoft OS epitomizes this cultural shift...we have doggies, talking paper clips, and lots of fluff, but on any single piece of hardware, we are doing it slower and slower with each OS. InfoWorld studied the Win95 "phenomenon" and reported that American business spent between $2500 and $4500 in staff and direct costs upgrading from Windows for Workgroups to Win95. As was shown in the PC magazine roundup that year (although they separated the benchmark tables by more than 100 pages) the Win95 boxes in their roundup benchmarked an average of 37% slower than the W4WGs boxes. $3500 to go 37% slower does not have a positive ROI. While it may not pay today, for technical support reasons, to buy a machine with Win2k, it certainly does NOT pay to upgrade one from Nt4 or Win2k.

And finally, activation is a PITA. After the problem with the Saitek keyboard, I had to reformat the HD. Doing so, despite the MS web site statements, required that I spend 20 minutes on the phone arguing the legitimacy of my request with a woman whose ability to understand and speak english should have prevented her from getting a driver's license.
 

Sacrifice

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2004
8
0
0
At home i run a W2K3 unit, which works nice but is mainly for testing.
Then i have a w2k machine directly connected to internet, offcourse i turned off some services and i installed all updates. The system is running for 1 year without troubles, without virusscanner or firewall. I installed msn, use IE6.0 as browser and i download files by using 3rd party software and i play games and do the general that winxp users do. I even run a VMware session time to time and share my connection with it to try out server functions.

I have no virusses on the computer, once in a while i install Norton to do a viruscheck but deinstall it to get a performance gain.

I tried this with WinXP, and i got slammed with blaster virus, and what other crap. I removed it, threw the cd with an elegant move to the recycle bin, missed and now it functions as one of the many objects on the ground which gathers dust.

That an professional dev team even considers making their start button uggggllyyy green, was reason enough for me to use the CD as clay pigon.
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Sorry, but XP is built off 2K but configured correctly is faster, more secure, and an overall better OS than it's older brother 2K.

My kids have old games which will not run in 2K, but will run and run fine in XP under compatability mode. I know they've left their system "up" for well in excess of 30 days and probably more like 60+ days and it still runs fine.

I've also had much more problems with hardware overall in 2K than XP. Even older hardware often times is found and configured to work natively in XP, but needs to have drivers installed and be configured in 2K.

I've seen mention of virus/spyware differences which is BS. The only way one would be worse than the other regarding virus attack was if one had good, updated protection and the other had none or outdated protection. Same with spyware.

Bottom line, there's nothing "wrong" with 2K whatsoever, but, XP, is simply a wiser choice in most applications between those two. Linux beats out both though if speaking strictly in a sense of security and fundamentally sound performance, but fails at compatability and general overall use. IMHO though, Linux is not the answer and never will be. Hope is still there that something new will appear down the road and make both Linux and MS obsolete.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
JackNaylorPE,

Where to start...

Customization peaked with NT4......we got to play games better, had some stuff thrown in for unknowledgeable folks that protects them but drastically hinders the knowledgeable. And for going from a 160 MB footptint to a 2000 MB footprint all I got out of it was USB support and "hot docking" both of which are things that i thought I wanted but can't really say I needed.
I'll let you answer this one.
XP is better but can't touch NT4's performance. With DirectX improvements, I don't include games for obvious reasons.
I though you only got USB and hot docking. Guess there was more after all... Oh and you obviously have other improvements in mind when you said "XP is better." Why is it better if all it has is USB and hotdocking? Don't play coy. If you have worked in the industry you know damned well there are a lot more features than that.

Now I can't walk away from such an install, I gotta sit and swap media till its done
If you don't know about RIS or ghosted installs, I'm doubting your experience. I haven't had to swap media since DOS. Not one version of windows has EVER required swapping media.

Left out security ? Are you saying my behind the hardware firewall NT4 box, which is wholly immune to any MSIE or Outlook Express vulnerability simply because those files don't exist on my box, and behind Zone Alarm Pro with every security update ever issued by MS is less secure than my WinXP boxes ?
No, I'm stating that you left out a layer of security. That's wonderfull your such an admin that you can avoid all the nasties. You want a cookie?

NT4 is inherently insecure because it's not being patched. Does that make every install insecure? No. Does it make it a problem with the OS? Yes.

Running XP on a brand new box, as yet unconnected to a network cable gets 5 - 8 hits from a ad and spyware scan.
WOW, you can get the same thing on any new windows install on an unsecure connection. NT4 is not safer in that scenarion. Again, security is layered, if you remove a layer you may be vulnerable. God help those with unsecure connections.

Contact my hardware manufacturer, that's a 3rd party issue ???? A third party issue that didn't exist until SP2 ????? there's over 200 programs / hardware drivers that stopped working immediately upon the release of SP2.
I'm fully aware of the chaos SP2 has caused. However, this was the biggest change to the OS any SP has ever made. There are plenty of good reasons for these changes. The 3rd parties were made aware of these changes before SP2 was released, it had a much longer cycle with the manufacturers than other SPs because of this. Any manufacturer that wasn't able to patch their software/drivers to work with SP2 is their fault.

Are you also aware of the THOUSANDS of other softwares that didn't have problems because a patch was available?

And I did speak to the manufacturer who told me it is a known problem with the onboard Intel USB controller and WinXPSp2. Spoke to Intel and they said it is a known problem but that Microsoft is responsible for fixing the problem.
Since when is MS responsible for 3rd party drivers? I think no. They often make generic drivers, but not manufacturer specific ones. I'm wouldn't buy that line from Intel.

So Autodesk / MS or whomever shuts down my machine and I now have an employee sitting at his desk for 2 weeks twiddling his thumbs before they write back and say "whoops, we made a mistake".
Lemme know when that happens, I'd like to see a case. OK? About the DRM licensing, I wholly agree. I'm not a fan of DRM at all.

Speed != increased ROI. Stability and Security do. Otherwise we would all be using a W9x core. Slower operations != bloat. Are you going to post meat or BS? If you want to post some numbers, try using a format we understand, benchmarks, not "how long it takes to open a program." Last time I checked I only open programs 1/session. After that the performance with the app running is more important. It's like faster boot times, who cares? I only reboot 1/week/month.

That's 5.4 people per household. I have to shell out for a business OS for an 8 year old to use XP Pro cause XP-Home in a 6 machine household is the proverbial "mammaries on a bull".
What is it about a 6 machine network that screams "home" environment. Most homes do NOT have 6 computers, much less 6 new ones all running XP. Home is for SMALL home networks, if you want a business environment (ala 6 machine network), yes you need to shell out for a business OS. If you want a SUV, you can't buy an econobox and bitch, well, you might.

Can you tell me how WU2 is any more secure than WU1 ?...So why was this done ? Its the same exact list....so why change it unless you want to see the collected information ?
I was asking YOU for information about WU2.

On your "trust" issue. Let me plainly state that if you install a OS or application, you are trusting that company. Unless you have access to their source code, and the skill to understand it, you trust them.

Don't talk ROI on a decade old OS, that's rediculous.

And finally, activation is a PITA.
Have you done it recently? The few times I have called it took ~5 min. no hassle.
 

JackNaylorPE

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2004
18
0
0
>Sorry, but XP is built off 2K but configured correctly is faster, more secure, and an overall better OS than it's older brother 2K.<

I have seen dozens of published comparisions to the contrary and our own in house tests back up the published ones....even on dual boot boxes. Only ganme sare running faster. The performance drop is not as big as from NT4 -> Win2k but it's still there. And you can reduce the drop by turning off a bunch of crap in XP but it still doesn't get down to match.

Again, as the industry trade mags have indicated, and I mean the business oriented ones, not the fluffy newstand variety, a win2k box with Zone Alarm offers superior protection to XP with firewall. For my Aunt Tillie who might go out and buy a machine and nevr think of security, XP with its default firewall is a plus. But for any reasonably knowledgeable user....a person who has been using one for at least a year, the windows firewall is just something I need to turn off when I replace it with something I actually trust. And an NT4 box, Zone Alarm / AV with no IE or OE on the machine is infintely more secure as it can't be attacked thru the myriad of vulnerabilities which these things expose one to.

>I've also had much more problems with hardware overall in 2K than XP. Even older hardware often times is found and configured to work natively in XP, but needs to have drivers installed and be configured in 2K<

Win2k doesn't have a list of 200 things published on MS's own site which were broken by SP2.

As AV is handled by 3rd party programs there's no difference between the two OS's except for the base level of vulnerability. Again, NT4 with no IE or OE is inherently more secure. December 17th announced spoofing vulnerability for example will not infect a NT4 box without IE.
 

JackNaylorPE

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2004
18
0
0
As for XP's additional features....most of them annoy the crap out of me till I find out how to turn them off. My AV program automoatically updates its def files daily but I still have XP popping up annoying me about files being out of date... As for other features....whoopdedoo, it has extra what MS calls feaures, but the expression on my face is like the Alaskan at the car dealer listening to a speech about how he should buy this car because it has air conditioning when the peak summer temperature where he lives is 65F.

A feature that one does not desire or has no use for is not a feature....it's a resource eating burden. The mere presence of IE slows the computer down, and makes the puter less secure you don't have to load it. And that can be done without your intervention despite what you choose as your "default browser". And it took the courts to even get us the right to pick a default browser and hide IE.

As for the replacing media question, single machine, no network let's do the math.

Machine 1 - NT4 w/ 511 MB C partition w/ OS, Partitioning tools, and TBU software. Everything else on other partitions totaling 20 Gig of files.
Machine 2 - XP w/ 30 Gig C partition w/ everything. All the same files as above plus the extra 1.5 Gig of OS

What will take longer to restore ?
How many CD's you need for each one ?

I have site licenses for Partiton Magic and Drive Image. The problem is I can't get employees to make images as they find it too complicated or don't bother. I can get them to hit a button once a month and make CD-R.

NT isn't being patched ? Why does Windows Update still keep finding critical updates for me ? Why does the FAA use NT4 to control our airspace ? I am a government contractor designing federal buildings and facilities. I must make sure my network is safe. NT4 had NSA certification so that's what went on my server runs.

>WOW, you can get the same thing on any new windows install on an unsecure connection<

As I said there is NO connection. Alexa for example isn't in NT4. The DSO vulnerabilities aren't in NT4

>Any manufacturer that wasn't able to patch their software/drivers to work with SP2 is their fault. <

I agee. MS's failure to fix their USB driver to work with USB2 after SP2 is their fault.

>Since when is MS responsible for 3rd party drivers? I think no. They often make generic drivers, but not manufacturer specific ones. I'm wouldn't buy that line from Intel<

Most enthusiasts would be aware that it's not a 3rd party driver. A 3rd party driver is , by definition, one available from a 3rd party. This driver is and never was available from Intel. USB drivers are MS's baby.

From MS USB FAQ:

"Windows 2000 and Windows XP were released before USB 2.0 hardware was available, so the drivers were released for those operating systems in the service packs."

And

"[The Win XP USB] driver doesn't require a vendor-provided minidriver."


>Lemme know when that happens, I'd like to see a case. OK?<

Just read your EULA. By installing XP you specifically grant MS the right to snoop in your machine, disable any programs it find appropriate and to delete files it thinks you may have obtained inappropriately.

>Speed != increased ROI. Stability and Security do. Otherwise we would all be using a W9x core.<

The Win9x core is the slowest that has ever been produced in Redmond....it's 40% slower than its predecessor.

A for benchmarks would you really understand CAD benchmarks ? CAD is the most demanding app we have and judge all usage and peformance thereby. No, we don't leave AutoCAD open when it's not being used as it eats up huge amounts of system resources. And we have 2 or 3 sessions going simultaneously. And No, we don't leave a session open when it's not being used for obvious reasons....it clutters the desktop and steals resources that could be better used elsewhere.

Change CAD text style on 2.5 MB drawing - NT4 box 3.2 seconds, Win2k box 6.1 seconds
Rotate 5.1 MB CAD vector image with embedded raster file 90d - NT4 7.3 seconds, Win2k 13.7 seconds.

Note that the Win2k system has a 16% faster processor.

Office apps and related benches are irrelevent here as who the heck cares whether a find and replace is completed in 0.4 or o.2 seconds. We carefully test all potential purchases for ROI. 15k SCSI drives still pay their own way as their ROI is about the same as going from a 2.8 to a 3.6 Ghz processor....pays for itself in staff time in less than a year. XP doesn't have that ROI......upgrading a machine from Win2k to WinXP will never "pay for itself".

All my employees telecommute most of the time. Each has a Home Machine. most I supplied, they supply their own software, I supply the OS. I have had 54 machines come thru these doors, each one custom built, usually tweaked for CAD capability. Most can adequately maintain their machine but, ultimately I wind up taking care of them when they get "stuck". I get more "stucks" to deal with XP BTW than any other OS. Each has his previous computer used usually for backup or print server purposes and / or a notebook for field work. Each one's spouse has a computer. And each has at least one "kid's computer. That's 4 from the getgo. Out of those 54 machines out there, I recall one 3 box network for a single employee. The rest all have at least 4 computers in the house. I know teenagers with 3 or 4 of their own boxes. No one throws out PC's anymore.....old computers become print servers, backup machines, Battlefield1942 or Warcraft servers, etc.

Show me a house with 3 kids and 1 puter between them and I will show you a Dad who's tired of hearing arguments over whose turn it is to use the computer. And let's look at smaller networks. Dad wants to take his new XPH machine to the office....sorry Bill says can't log into the domain at work nor access the office via remote desktop from home. Look on a site such as Compuserve's PC Hardware ? WinNT Forum (covering NT4/NT5.0/NT5.1 where most of the staff has been answering such questions since the eary 1980's. There's at least two two posts a week asking what should I buy, XPH or XPP for my singe home PC....invariable the answer will be XPP.

What is XPH....it's basically XPP with a bunch of stuff ripped out. You an enthusiast and wanna harness the power of 2 processors on your single home machine, sorry no can do in XPH. Automated System Recovery and Fax capability is on the Home CD but it doesn't install by default. Wanna keep some files encrypted on your single PC, sorry XPH does not support EFS. Mom's on Dad's computer so dad tries to load his profile on Son No. 1's computer, sorry no roaming profiles in XPH. No remote management for distribution of AV updates. XPH doesn't come with a full set of administrative tools. Using your SUV analogy with owner on phone with dealership...."Sorry but you bought the SUV - Home Edition which doesn't come with a jack and lug wrench".

Let's face it, MS decisions on how to configure XPH versus XPP are not based upon the user needs but upon their profits. Set it at 10 and I'd never complain about that issue. And there's been no mention of 6 machines "running XP". All you need is one machine running XPH and that machine will be bit by the no more than 5 limit.

>I was asking YOU for information about WU2. <

Which was provided. WU2 = WU1 + snooping.

>Have you done it recently? The few times I have called it took ~5 min. no hassle<

Did you read the message ? ... remember Saitek keyboard .... reformat ...... had to spend 20 minutes arguing with a person who spoke poor english that it was a legitimate install. This was done less than 48 hours after the first authentication with identical hardware, it should NOT have been a problem.

 
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