Do you think bin Laden was responsible for the attacks on 9/11/01?

[buckshot24]

What's the relevance? How are they similar? The moon landings were primarily a matter of national achievement, while the 9/11 attacks were primarily a matter of national security.

What does one have to do with the other, or is this just a way for you to change the subject?

Just that the moon landing was rammed down our throats by the same government that you think conspired to kill thousands of its citizens just to go to war. There are easier ways to start wars.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Imagine that, a breath of sanity coming from TLC

No its not sanity, its the mere fact he agreed with you.

 

[Matt1970]

To me this is the most compelling reason (and I find it entirely compelling) why a 9/11 conspiracy makes no sense. Certainly the PNAC, which had senior members at the highest levels of government during the Bush administration, stood to gain from an attack on America as a means of catalyzing support for war in the Middle East, and they were not hesitant to capitalize on 9/11 to do precisely that, but even if I were prepared to accept that they were sufficiently blackhearted to kill 3,000 American civilians (and I am not), I do not believe they could possibly have carried out such an elaborate scheme without the truth having leaked out. Such a conspiracy would require precise coordination by thousands of people, and there is no way one or more of them would not have told the story by now.

That is the conclusion most sane people would come to. Also keep in mind not only does Bush have to recruit many hundreds of people to pull this off, every one of those thousands approached to do this has to have agreed with it because nobody has ever come forward saying they we asked to participate but refused.

 

[CallMeJoe]

The Bush administration flawlessly executed the September 11, 2001 False Flag attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and the subsequent cover-up, but couldn't help tripping over their own feet on everything else they attempted...

 

[Matt1970]

What about the moon landing? Real or not?

Same situation but even easier to prove. There is an open invitation from many observatories to the people that claim the moon landing are fake to view the lasers they bounce off the mirrors placed on the surface of the moon during the Apollo missions. None have ever showed up to view them.

 

[Matt1970]

The Bush administration flawlessly executed the September 11, 2001 False Flag attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and the subsequent cover-up, but couldn't help tripping over their own feet on everything else they attempted...

LOL

 

[Juror No. 8]

Only a colossal dumb fuck could believe our government could put something like 9/11 together, recruit the hundreds and hundreds of people needed to pull it off, and none of them ever has an attack of conscience and comes forward.

Only a colossal dumb fuck wouldn't know that our government already once put something like 9/11 together called 'Operation Northwoods', which was a 1962 false flag attack plan that utilized commercial airliners and fake terror attacks trick the American people into supporting a war against Cuba. Sound familiar? If officials within our government didn't think they could pull off such a massive deception they wouldn't have bothered to sit down and plan it.

Also, why would "hundreds" be needed to pull it off? As it is now, you believe the official conspiracy theory required only 19 hijackers and a handful of planners and financiers? If Al-Qaeda could pull it off with less than hundreds, why couldn't our government with infinitely more resources at their disposal?

And why would someone involved in the conspiracy to kill thousands and trick millions have a crisis of conscience? Obviously such a person wouldn't have much of a conscience, and even if they did, why would they wish to incriminate themselves and endanger themselves or their family? Thousands upon thousands of crimes go unsolved every year in this country alone. Why is that? Why don't all those criminals have crises of conscience?

Answer: Because they don't wish to fucking get caught, that's why.

 

[Matt1970]

Only a colossal dumb fuck wouldn't know that our government already once put something like 9/11 together called 'Operation Northwoods', which was a 1962 false flag attack plan that utilized commercial airliners and fake terror attacks trick the American people into supporting a war against Cuba. Sound familiar? If officials within our government didn't think they could pull off such a massive deception they wouldn't have bothered to sit down and plan it.

Also, why would "hundreds" be needed to pull it off? As it is now, you believe the official conspiracy theory required only 19 hijackers and a handful of planners and financiers? If Al-Qaeda could pull it off with less than hundreds, why couldn't our government with infinitely more resources at their disposal?

And why would someone involved in the conspiracy to kill thousands and trick millions have a crisis of conscience? Obviously such a person wouldn't have much of a conscience, and even if they did, why would they wish to incriminate themselves and endanger themselves or their family? Thousands upon thousands of crimes go unsolved every year in this country alone. Why is that? Why don't all those criminals have crises of conscience?

Answer: Because they don't wish to fucking get caught, that's why.

Because it takes an army of people weeks to rig a building for demolition. Now do that x3. Plus the security that has to turn a blind eye every night to let them in and out of the trade centers. All the firefighters, police, ambulance and all first responders have to ignore all the det cord and other evidence all over the place at ground zero until it is removed from the site. The TV Networks have to be in on it so as not to film any of it being removed. Now enter the air traffic controllers have to allow all the record to be doctored so as not to show the commercial flight being diverted to another location and the military planes enter into their flight paths. Don’t forget the people on those passenger planes now have to be killed of forced into slavery. Now the Military personnel to remotely fly the planes into the buildings, fire a missile at the Pentagon and then go plant plane parts all over the scene.

All these people and more have to agree to kill thousands of their own citizens, and keep quiet about it for the rest of their lives all so Bush can go after oil and finish what his dad started over in Iraq.

 

[Juror No. 8]

To me this is the most compelling reason (and I find it entirely compelling) why a 9/11 conspiracy makes no sense. Certainly the PNAC, which had senior members at the highest levels of government during the Bush administration, stood to gain from an attack on America as a means of catalyzing support for war in the Middle East, and they were not hesitant to capitalize on 9/11 to do precisely that, but even if I were prepared to accept that they were sufficiently blackhearted to kill 3,000 American civilians (and I am not), I do not believe they could possibly have carried out such an elaborate scheme without the truth having leaked out. Such a conspiracy would require precise coordination by thousands of people, and there is no way one or more of them would not have told the story by now.

I don't find this reason compelling at all. What specifically makes the government incapable of pulling off an elaborate scheme in total secrecy? On the contrary, the government classifies millions of things that never see the light of day unless the government wishes to reveal it. For instance, just look at the Manhattan Project, MK-ULTRA, COINTELPRO, Northwoods, and Project SHAD/112. All were elaborate schemes involving as many as thousands, and the government managed to keep each of them a secret from the public long enough to carry out their goals or protect those involved from prosecution. If anything, this capability has increased over the years.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Just that the moon landing was rammed down our throats by the same government that you think conspired to kill thousands of its citizens just to go to war.

Still not seeing the comparison. Again, one event is a significant question of national security, the other isn't.

There are easier ways to start wars.

Really? Tell me what they are then. How else was the government going to initiate a perpetual "War on Terror" short of manufacturing some kind of dramatic terror attack?

 

[jman19]

A420's threads just get more batshit insane as time marches on.

OP, please get some mental help, and move out of your parent's place. Get a job.

 

[buckshot24]

Still not seeing the comparison. Again, one event is a significant question of national security, the other isn't.

So the government would lie to us about something really important but not about something that isn't as important?

Really? Tell me what they are then. How else was the government going to initiate a perpetual "War on Terror" short of manufacturing some kind
of dramatic terror attack?

Assuming that they could only start a war in that way it still doesn't hold up because they could have done something much simpler.

They could have placed suitcase bombs in train stations. Less moving parts and less to fuck up. They could stage an assassination attempt on the president. Whatever.

The biggest problem is that you don't have any real evidence. That's why people think your position is nuts.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Only a colossal dumb fuck wouldn't know that our government already once put something like 9/11 together called 'Operation Northwoods', which was a 1962 false flag attack plan that utilized commercial airliners and fake terror attacks trick the American people into supporting a war against Cuba. Sound familiar? If officials within our government didn't think they could pull off such a massive deception they wouldn't have bothered to sit down and plan it.

Also, why would "hundreds" be needed to pull it off? As it is now, you believe the official conspiracy theory required only 19 hijackers and a handful of planners and financiers? If Al-Qaeda could pull it off with less than hundreds, why couldn't our government with infinitely more resources at their disposal?

And why would someone involved in the conspiracy to kill thousands and trick millions have a crisis of conscience? Obviously such a person wouldn't have much of a conscience, and even if they did, why would they wish to incriminate themselves and endanger themselves or their family? Thousands upon thousands of crimes go unsolved every year in this country alone. Why is that? Why don't all those criminals have crises of conscience?

Answer: Because they don't wish to fucking get caught, that's why.

You must forgive Juror No. 8........he lives in the same home for colossal dumb fucks as does Anarchist......yet Anarchist is mild compared to this idiot....

 

[Juror No. 8]

The Bush administration flawlessly executed the September 11, 2001 False Flag attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and the subsequent cover-up, but couldn't help tripping over their own feet on everything else they attempted...

You mean, the CIA flawlessly executed the September 11, 2001 false flag attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, the corporate controlled U.S. government and media took care of the subsequent cover-up, and the Bush administration was successfully marketed to be incompetent and incapable of complicity to dupes like you. And
of course you fell for it...

 

[buckshot24]

Was Kennedy killed by Oswald?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I'm not going on demolition videos. I'm going on the fact that on the morning of 9/11 I heard reporters claiming tower 7 had fell, yet it was still standing there. Not only did they report it as going down, they openly reported it as being pulled. I'm not a truther, I'm just not blind, deaf, and dumb.

And that's the problem with truthers. Their "facts" consistently fail to be actual facts.

One single reporter, a BBC reporter, mistakenly reported that WTC7 had fallen on the afternoon of the event, 30 minutes prior to it actually collapsing, and WTC7 was plainly visible behind her. Nor did she say that it was "pulled." So there is absolutely no possible way you heard this claim from "reporters" on the "morning of 9/11."

When you can't get the facts straight you end up with no credibility. But hey, at least you actually tried to cite some facts, unlike certain other truthtards in here who run their mouth and blow nothing out but hot air.

 

[raildogg]

We don't know and it doesn't matter. Just live your life.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Only a colossal dumb fuck wouldn't know that our government already once put something like 9/11 together called 'Operation Northwoods', which was a 1962 false flag attack plan that utilized commercial airliners and fake terror attacks trick the American people into supporting a war against Cuba. Sound familiar? If officials within our government didn't think they could pull off such a massive deception they wouldn't have bothered to sit down and plan it.

And only a colossal dumb fuck would use Northwoods as any valid evidence of a false flag attack, since it was completely shot down, or as a comparison to 9/11.

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/us-government/operation-northwoods/

 

[Juror No. 8]

So the government would lie to us about something really important but not about something that isn't as important?

No, the government would more likely lie or mislead the public about an event of enormous national security implications, as 9/11 was, than they would about an event that entailed virtually no national security implications.

Assuming that they could only start a war in that way it still doesn't hold up because they could have done something much simpler.

They could have placed suitcase bombs in train stations. Less moving parts and less to fuck up. They could stage an assassination attempt on the president. Whatever.

A small, simple terrorist attack probably wouldn't have been traumatic or shocking enough to galvanize public support for a perpetual War on Terror.

The bigger, more murderous the attack = The more public hatred it would engender

The biggest problem is that you don't have any real evidence. That's why people think your position is nuts.

My theory has just as much evidence supporting it as the official conspiracy theory does. After all, the evidence for the official story essentially comes down to, "because the government said so". The whole thing rests on whether or not you believe the government told the truth.

So, what evidence do you have proving the government told the truth about 9/11?

 

[Juror No. 8]

And only a colossal dumb fuck would use Northwoods as any valid evidence of a false flag attack, since it was completely shot down, or as a comparison to 9/11.

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/us-government/operation-northwoods/

LOL, nice straw man.

Nobody here ever said that Northwoods was evidence of a 9/11 false flag attack. However, Northwoods does serve as evidence that the U.S. government not only could plan and execute a false flag attack against the American people, but would be able to plan and execute a false flag attack against the American people. After all, if the government couldn't or wouldn't be able to carry out such an attack, the Joint Chiefs who drew up the Northwoods plan and approved it up the chain of command wouldn't have bothered, but they did.

Sorry, but the point stands.

 

[Matt1970]

I don't find this reason compelling at all. What specifically makes the government incapable of pulling off an elaborate scheme in total secrecy? On the contrary, the government classifies millions of things that never see the light of day unless the government wishes to reveal it. For instance, just look at the Manhattan Project, MK-ULTRA, COINTELPRO, Northwoods, and Project SHAD/112. All were elaborate schemes involving as many as thousands, and the government managed to keep each of them a secret from the public long enough to carry out their goals or protect those involved from prosecution. If anything, this capability has increased over the years.

That's just it, it hasn't pulled those schemes off. The Manhattan project was infiltrated by Russian spies, most notable Klaus Fuchs. MK-ULTRA was outed by congress, and so on, but the very fact that you know about these means they were failures. One other thing is none of those involved the Murder of what could have been up to 50,000 civilians. One other

 

[buckshot24]

I think Ruby and Oswald were recently thawed and reanimated to orchestrate 9/11.

 

[buckshot24]

No, the government would more likely lie or mislead the public about an event of enormous national security implications, as 9/11 was, than they would about an event that entailed virtually no national security implications.

Why?

A small, simple terrorist attack probably wouldn't have been traumatic or shocking enough to galvanize public support for a perpetual War on Terror.

Why?

The bigger, more murderous the attack = The more public hatred it would engender

So they could have gone bigger and more elaborate to really piss off the citizenry.

My theory has just as much evidence supporting it as the official conspiracy theory does.

All you have is innuendo and possible motivations but you don't have evidence.

After all, the evidence for the official story essentially comes down to, "because the government said so". The whole thing rests on whether or not you believe the government told the truth.

We also have the fact that the conspiracy you believe in makes no fucking sense. You have to stand on your head balancing a watermelon on your toe to get yours to work. Its a house of cards.

So, what evidence do you have proving the government told the truth about 9/11?

Unfortunately for you, you are the one that needs evidence since your claim is so whacko, absurd and ridiculously preposterous.

When everything is a conspiracy you have to look yourself in the mirror and say "I'm a fucking loon". Admitting the problem is half the battle. Sometimes stuff is just as it appears. Oswald killed Kennedy, we went to the moon, Hitler killed millions of Jews, and Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack on 9/11. Those are all the most plausible explanations and the fact that you seem to side with the whacko explanation says more about you than it does about anybody else.

Could it have been Bush? I guess so but the evidence has to be iron clad before people will believe it. (most people) Even if the evidence fits conspiracy and traditional explanations equally you'd have to go with traditional because what the conspiracy theory requires you to believe. That Bush would potentially kill 50,000 people just so he could go to war.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

LOL, nice straw man.

Nobody here ever said that Northwoods was evidence of a 9/11 false flag attack. However, Northwoods does serve as evidence that the U.S. government not only could plan and execute a false flag attack against the American people, but would be able to plan and execute a false flag attack against the American people. After all, if the government couldn't or wouldn't be able to carry out such an attack, the Joint Chiefs who drew up the Northwoods plan and approved it up the chain of command wouldn't have bothered, but they did.

Sorry, but the point stands.

All it proves is that the plan was shot down.

"Could" the government plan and execute such an attack? Of course. They "could" have proof of aliens too. Hell, they "could" be aliens. They "could" have proof that intelligent llamas planned and pulled off 9/11. But wild speculation is meaningless without at least some solid proof and you have none. Do you comprehend that fact? You don't have an iota of evidence. Rampant anti-government paranoia isn't evidence, it doesn't provide any proof, and it serves to make you look like an unhinged crackpot when your claims are completely based on it.

Besides that, you don't even stop to think how this grand plan would have to have been executed. According to your beliefs it would have had to have been planned by the government when Bush Sr was in office, or even before that, then passed along by Clinton as well as numerous heads of the CIA and agents. That's not to mention these amazing ninjas that snuck into all 3 towers, magically planted tons of demolitions without leaving a trace and, in the case of WTC1 & WTC2, miraculously placed those explosives exactly where the planes ended up striking so those buildings would begin the collapse from the same exact point. Then, like dissolving stiches, any and all trace of demolitions magically disappeared once the towers collapsed.

Anyone who actually begins thinking truther claims through soon recognizes the impossibility of their claim. Apparently truthers don't care to employ any sort of critical thinking though because doing so would burst their little loony bubble.

 

[Juror No. 8]

That's just it, it hasn't pulled those schemes off.

Sure they did. In each case, the government either accomplished what it set out to accomplish, or it kept each operation secret long enough to protect those involved.

Manhattan project was infiltrated by Russian spies, most notable Klaus Fuchs.

Irrelevant, as the project was still kept a secret from the general public, which is what we are talking about here.

MK-ULTRA was outed by congress, and so on, but the very fact that you know about these means they were failures.

Yes, MK-ULTRA was outed by Congress, but not for a whopping 20 years. Again, 20 whole years. Think about all those hundreds, maybe thousands of insiders who had knowledge of a massive CIA program that was both highly immoral and completely illegal, and none of them developed enough of a conscience to go to the press with the story. So why should anyone believe the modern CIA is any different?

Anyways, it took the U.S. government 20 years to come clean on MK-ULTRA, and it's only been 11 years since 9/11. Maybe in another nine years we'll get something other than bullshit.

One other thing is none of those involved the Murder of what could have been up to 50,000 civilians. One other

LOL. What are trying to say here? That the CIA would somehow be opposed to using Americans as cannon fodder, even though the CIA has a long documented history of using Americans as unwitting test subjects in their many gruesome MK-ULTRA experiments?

Cognitive dissonance, is that you?