Do you think our modern education system teaches kids to think logically?

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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
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In states like New Jersey where the Teachers unions have the most control, very little is being taught at all.

The wonders of an interventionist policy...

And yet New Jersey schools consistently rate near the top in state-by-state comparisions:

US News & World Report
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
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I don't trust ratings to much, the high school I went to wasn't even ranked yet it regularly(common) has students going to the top universities in the country.
 
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ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
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And by logic I mean logic in the general sense, not mathematical logic.

I'm wondering if each subsequent generation is taught more only to pass tests rather than how to think through situations and solve problems.

It seems that kids today (increasingly in the past few decades, really) are taught from a broader array of subjects, but with less focus on the basics and less time is spent on critical thinking and reading comprehension.

Yes. The problem you are talking about could be contributed from Anime, Video Games, and the crazy fuckin' cartoons being played on TV. That's my take anyway. American culture is always about MORE MORE MORE, and right now that means MORE WEIRD CARTOONS. The college classes I've taken are more logical than anything I've heard my parents or other people's parents talk about. Science has come a long way since the 1960s and likewise so has the material taught in schools. But, I grew up in a premier part of the country, so maybe it's not like this everywhere....
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
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The thing about standardized tests is that it's very easy to use them to produce charts, and once you do that you can compare them to other charts. Thus, a middle management type person can then take those charts and present them to upper management to show that they are "doing something" and "having an impact", thus impressing those upper management type people and thereby gain additional funding without actually having shown anything of real value.

In my opinion critical thinking should be taught at a much younger age than it is. It should be taught in some form in kindergarten or very early elementary school. But school really isn't about critical thinking, is it?
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
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I don't think critical thinking can even BE taught. People who are idiots will always be idiots, they just might have more shit in their shit-arsenal to make an insipid argument with.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
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No, they're taught to memorize asinine data, and then repeat it in tests.

There's very little critical thinking involved in k-12 schooling. That was shown to me by rouge science teachers after hours, and my parents.

Even college courses are questionable.

The whole machine raises automatons, like JS80.
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
1,090
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No, they're taught to memorize asinine data, and then repeat it in tests.

There's very little critical thinking involved in k-12 schooling. That was shown to me by rouge science teachers after hours, and my parents.

Even college courses are questionable.

The whole machine raises automatons, like JS80.

Oooooh the word asinine.... there is no "asinine data" I say. Only asinine people.

Whores get paid. It doesn't matter if you're performing sex with politicians or working a machine for the owner of a company. You're a whore, doing something you don't really want to for $$$$. And the best whores are more desirable to employers. That's western society for you. Not much has changed since the plantation days, just the laws forcing owners to do things they don't want to, like pay their employees. But, on the flip side, do what you want and what you're good at and make even more money, if you're really good at it. So, I think it's good that school systems teach kids to be productive in the very least, the kids with talent will do what they are good at and want to do and figure it out themselves. The others will be productive rather than a waste of air and resources. That is what I see the plan as being... maybe I'm wrong?
 
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ahenkel

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2009
5,359
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School for me was always here learn this. Then next year, oh a bunch of people forgot ok 6 months of relearning. Then new stuff. It was always an uphill climb.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
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No, they're taught to memorize asinine data, and then repeat it in tests.
I love the pathetic fallacy. But seriously. How can data be asinine?

I don't think critical thinking can even BE taught. People who are idiots will always be idiots, they just might have more shit in their shit-arsenal to make an insipid argument with.
That's not true. The problem is that it can't be taught quickly. It is more than reading a single textbook/critical analysis, more than a course of 50 (or however many you fit in one semester) lectures, more than a few tutorials a week. It comes from developing the skill as a habit, thinking of it as a skill and not as a series of discrete data. And to be honest, I don't think I've seen anybody teach it well.

In my opinion critical thinking should be taught at a much younger age than it is. It should be taught in some form in kindergarten or very early elementary school. But school really isn't about critical thinking, is it?
By their very nature teaching logical and critical thinking to a child would be kind of a waste of time. Instead, nurturing and encouraging curiosity would be much more useful here, and would lead to a much better thought process later in life. I reckon it should be encouraged as a skill (so no discrete classes per se, but integrated into every single course) from about 13/14 onwards.

Yes. The problem you are talking about could be contributed from Anime, Video Games, and the crazy fuckin' cartoons being played on TV. That's my take anyway. American culture is always about MORE MORE MORE, and right now that means MORE WEIRD CARTOONS. The college classes I've taken are more logical than anything I've heard my parents or other people's parents talk about. Science has come a long way since the 1960s and likewise so has the material taught in schools. But, I grew up in a premier part of the country, so maybe it's not like this everywhere....
But then, we still get things like the vaccine/autism thing, the whole debacle about the texas education board, the evolution/creationist debate, etc. So maybe you're the exception, rather than the rule?

In my experience, however, students were more or less given the answers. As GTaudiophile said, regurgitation is the name of the game. You can teach facts this way, but it is no way to teach kids how to think.
But that would mean teachers would have to take more time to engage with their students. Which would mean more teachers, to get a lower student-teacher ratio to make this feasible. But that would mean either ramping up the education budget, or introducing pay cuts. And that would be a horrible way to go, especially for the teachers that work hard to do this already with the class sizes they already have.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
If kids were thought to think logically, Religion wouldnt be around anymore

/flamesuit

If people thought logically they might have used a condom or birth control instead.

Well I mean they wouldn't have kids, as they tend to have a horrible return on investment.
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
1,090
0
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That's not true. The problem is that it can't be taught quickly. It is more than reading a single textbook/critical analysis, more than a course of 50 (or however many you fit in one semester) lectures, more than a few tutorials a week. It comes from developing the skill as a habit, thinking of it as a skill and not as a series of discrete data. And to be honest, I don't think I've seen anybody teach it well.

That's a good point it just doesn't happen here in reality. I agree, it's difficult to teach and I have only concluded without much proof that only a parent (or life itself) can teach it over the course of an entire childhood.

But then, we still get things like the vaccine/autism thing, the whole debacle about the texas education board, the evolution/creationist debate, etc. So maybe you're the exception, rather than the rule?

I drank too much tonight and it's almost 3am, sorry I have no idea what you mean. No comment.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I've already ranted about this in other threads so I wont go off again here.
I dont believe the modern American public schools teach kids how to think, or work.
Its not a surprise India and China are killing us.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
No, I don't believe our education system teaching kids to think at all.

Here's how it goes...

1) Government mandates standards to teach XYZ.
2) Teachers teach XYZ (basic facts, etc.)
3) Students take test on XYZ.
4) Students regurgitate XYZ on multiple choice test.
5) Students pass, school gets more funding from government.
6) Teachers take the path of least residence to ensure funding.

Regurgitating information does not involve much learning/thinking.

This.
 
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