Do you think polygamy should be legalized?

[thirtythree]

In reply to a couple comments: I was Mormon for most of my life, and I've heard of absolutely no Mormons practicing polygamy (except "back in the day"). The Mormon church doesn't condone polygamy.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

Wrong according to whom? You?

Where does the "wrong" occur? Because it violates your religious beliefs, because it complicates divorce proceedings, what?

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
How about staying the hell out of other people's business.

How does this effect someone with no direct involvement exactly?

Amen

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: spidey07

1) I don't care what one does and exercising their freedom and liberty without persecution or prosecution. That is liberty.
2) I DO care about marriage and what it means to me, and that's probably the rub.
3) Marriage is a union to raise children - more rub there as that is my view and belief. If society could stick to this simple concept..

I'm pro-choice, pro-dowhateverthehell you want. But marriage is a promise to birth and raise children. That is what it means to me and I'm sure many disagree with that.

Ahh, see that would be a problem since I'm married and have no intention of every having children of my own. In fact my wife and I chose each other specifically because neither of us wanted to birth/raise children.

Marriage is a contract to care for each other and has nothing to do with any obligation to birth and raise children except in a religious sense where one has been commanded to "go forth and mulitiply".

 

[Modelworks]

Rename marraige to union or some other word and let people live with who they want.
If some man is crazy enough to have 10 wives then let him, after a proper psych exam.
If two women or two men want to shack up more power to them.


All this sanctity of marraige stuff makes me ill. There is nothing sacred about it anymore. Vegas has proven that .

 

[eits]

... how exactly can you make a connection between polygamy and gay marriage?

the law should be that marriage = one person with one unrelated person.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

what? haha why? how's it wrong? is it causing any damage? is it making you gay? is it somehow going to change who you are?

 

[DukeN]

Two different things a'la apples and oranges. Don't put them in the same line as enough morons without a hint of rational reasoning think one will lead to the other and vice versa.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: eits
... how exactly can you make a connection between polygamy and gay marriage?

the law should be that marriage = one person with one unrelated person.

Its related because both are rules imposed on marriage. If gay marriage is a violation of rights then so is polygamy. If a man truly loves two women and they love him or vice versa, they cannot marry and live as three in harmony.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

what? haha why? how's it wrong? is it causing any damage? is it making you gay? is it somehow going to change who you are?

The irony is that without "having kids out of wedlock" our species would have never come to be or be anywhere close to where we are now without it.

Edit - Also, the trend is wrong, within 10 years gay marriage will be allowed, everywhere.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: between
your confusion stems from your poor/dim understanding of the legal argument for gay marriage, which is based on the idea that all citizens should have equal rights before the law. i.e., straight people are able to marry, therefore gay people should be able to do that too. you can't make an equivalent, equality-based legal argument for polygamy, because the rules against polygamous marriage apply to everyone. There are also restrictions relating to age (e.g., people can't marry until they are older than a certain age). these are arbitrary lines in the sand that have been written into law. you can argue against them, but the argument will not be based around equal protection or legal equality.

Your argument doesn't hold water. A homophobe would argue that a law allowing only straight marriage applies to everyone. They would argue that gay people CAN marry, just not people of the same sex and therefore that they had equal rights under the law. The courts that support gay marriage rights are fundamentally saying that gay people should be allowed to marry EACH OTHER. THere is no reason this couldn't be extended to say that polygamists can't marry each other.

 

[between]

 

[shadow9d9]

The legal rights of marriage are specific to 2 people. They would have to determine the legal ramifications.

IMO gay marriage and polygamy aren't even close to being related.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

The world trends towards progressive. See how slavery isn't legal in first world countries anymore? Women can vote now? Inter-racial marriages exist?

Can't stop change.

Younger generations are more and more tolerant, and the older, stingier, die off.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

Would you say the same thing if you were born gay?

Nobody is born gay. It's a freaking choice. And if you're born gay that is natural selection saying "you don't get to play in the gene pool or influence a child". aka, marriage.

Ignorance is bliss.

Science isn't on your side though.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relat...0128/is-there-gay-gene
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-577.html

You could choose to disbelieve now. Call it presumptuous or find a website that supports your chosen state.

People once thought the sun revolved around the earth. We will continue to understand things more and more.

Why would anyone choose a difficult "lifestyle" that is so hated by others? Talk about the dumbest thing in the world.

 

[GenHoth]

Sure, go for broke. Allow polygamous gay marriages. I REALLY don't care what they choose to do with their lives as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights. Go nuts.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Sure, why not? It's truly none of my business.

You might change your mind about that when:

1. Your company's health care costs skyrocket because they have to cover that perk for your co-worker's seven wives and 27 children on the back of his one salary . . . so they cut EVERYONE'S coverage, including yours.

2. Your taxes go up because that guy's 27 dependent deductions mean that not only does he pay zero income tax but he and his lovely family are now eligible for a WIDE variety of free social services . . . which you are now paying for.

3. Your wife, with whom you are not currently getting along, secretly marries the guy who cuts your lawn one night in Vegas while you thought she was visiting her Mom, and, after the divorce, YOU have to pay 18 years of child support for the twins she was carrying that he had fathered when he legally married YOU and her.

And, and, and . . .

Legal polygamy would be a legal nightmare.

Those assumptions hold no basis because none of the potential legalities have even been considered.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: gevorg
Supporting gay marriage, while not supporting polygamy is a great example of double-standards.

No, it's not. And while we're on the subject of polygamy and double standards, why has no one mentioned a wife having multiple husbands? Unless I missed it to this point in the thread I have seen only mention of husbands having a harem of wives.

Edit: And like 2 posts later it's mentioned. Doh!

Yes, it is a double standard. Please make an argument against Polygamy that could not be used against gay marriage, so far, I haven't seen one.

Personally, I'm with Bobberfett on this one, I don't care about either, do whatever you want.

One is between 2 people. One isn't.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

The facts would disagree with you. In California, for example, proposition 22 was passed in 2000 to define marriage as one man and one woman by 61.4% of the popular vote. Being unconstitutional, and NOT a constitutional amendment, the supreme court in California overturned it. Proposition 8, which is identical to proposition 22 except for the fact that it's an amendment (and NOT subject to the supreme court's decision), just passed with 52.5% of the vote.

In other words, in 8 years, support for making same sex marriage illegal, at least in California, decreased by about 9%. Your claim about the trend against gay marriage is not backed up by the facts, which directly refute what you just said. In fact, based on the current rate of decrease in support, it's a reasonable assumption that if the question of gay marriage is put before Californians again in 2012, they will legalize it. While I'm sure you'll be among the last converts, support for gay marriage is growing, and your opposition to it will be the minority opinion pretty soon.

Rainsford,

You're talking about California. A single state. Before I get attacked further here is my position:

1) I don't care what one does and exercising their freedom and liberty without persecution or prosecution. That is liberty.
2) I DO care about marriage and what it means to me, and that's probably the rub.
3) Marriage is a union to raise children - more rub there as that is my view and belief. If society could stick to this simple concept..

I'm pro-choice, pro-dowhateverthehell you want. But marriage is a promise to birth and raise children. That is what it means to me and I'm sure many disagree with that.

1) Then you'd have to support gay marriage. How can you claim to be all about freedom and liberty and want to restrict it at the same time? That's double-speak

2) That's great. I care about the high divorce rate and feel that marriage should be permanent (ie no divorce). But I'm not about to force that view on anyone else, not even my future wife.

3) Then surely you're lobbying to prevent sterile men and women from marrying. How's that going for you? Have you been successful in your crusade of outlawing vasectomies for married men? How about menopausal women, have you succeeded in preventing old women from marrying?

You're pretending to be rational, but your position is itself irrational. When you speak, all I see is a bigot. And what will be your reply? "I'M NOT A BIGOT, I JUST THINK GAYS SHOULD HAVE FEWER RIGHTS THAN ME."

 

[Eeezee]

Furthermore, there are countless men who suppressed their homosexuality, got married, had children, and later were caught having sex in male bath houses. This invalidates your entire idea that 'gay men aren't allowed to be in the gene pool.'

It's currently legal for a gay man to and a straight (or even gay) woman to be married. Hey, they MIGHT have kids some days, right?

You're ridiculous, spidey07

 

[AFMatt]

Homosexual marriage: I feel two people in love should be allowed to marry. Who are we to say it has to be a man and a woman, only?

Polygamy: I think it could be allowed, possibly limited to a certain number like some societies, but understand some people's arguments when it comes to legal ramifications/insurance, health care, taxes, etc.
However, as one other person stated, a possible solution would be to allow a person to have multiple spouses but their first marriage be their "legal" marriage so-to-speak. Meaning, that first spouse and children with that first spouse are recognized by all current dependent based benefits and situations. If you have 4 spouses, you pay extra for the other 3 and children with the other 3 when it comes to health care, you claim only one of them as a dependent on taxes, etc. You get no benefits for being a polygamist, and that is a decision you would have to make when going that route.

 

[Eeezee]

I support gay marriage.

I also support polygamy, but would not join in a polygamous relationship myself. That's just a personal choice. I wouldn't force this opinion on anyone else. Let others have as many wives/husbands as they want, it's just not for me. Even in polygamous society there is room for monogamy; just make up a contract requiring a divorce before the other person can marry again. Done.

 

[palehorse]

not just no, but hellllll no!

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: between

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Given the poll results it looks like there's a double-standard here for a lot of pro-gay marriage supporters. I'm not buying the arguments that try to distinguish the two.

I don't like the idea of polygamy, but then again I don't like the idea of gay marriage either. But that's not enough to say others can't do it if they want to. If gays can marry each other, there's no reason Mormons can't be polygamous.

your confusion stems from your poor/dim understanding of the legal argument for gay marriage, which is based on the idea that all citizens should have equal rights before the law. i.e., straight people are able to marry, therefore gay people should be able to do that too. you can't make an equivalent, equality-based legal argument for polygamy, because the rules against polygamous marriage apply to everyone. There are also restrictions relating to age (e.g., people can't marry until they are older than a certain age). these are arbitrary lines in the sand that have been written into law. you can argue against them, but the argument will not be based around equal protection or legal equality.

This. The best reason to support gay marriage is because gay couples deserve to have the same rights as straight couples. By definition, there is no such thing as a polygamous couple.

This entire post is comparing apples to oranges. Comparing gay marriage to polygamy is no less insulting than comparing it to bestiality.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Rename marraige to union or some other word and let people live with who they want.
If some man is crazy enough to have 10 wives then let him, after a proper psych exam.
If two women or two men want to shack up more power to them.


All this sanctity of marraige stuff makes me ill. There is nothing sacred about it anymore. Vegas has proven that .

The problem with renaming marriage is that you've suddenly stripped rights from all of the straight couples; civil unions have very few rights by comparison.

Your next question might we why we can't just give these rights to civil unions as well; we could, but the overhead cost would be much greater than the cost of simply legalizing gay marriage. Since all of the laws specify 'marriage' it's a bit trickier than simply renaming the term without accidentally nullifying a ton of rights.