Do you vote Republican but may in fact have Libertarian beliefs?

[gopunk]

Who said I wasnt satisfied? That is why you need to read the post before you reply.

why else would you be voting third party? because you don't like the two major ones... right? if you're going to say that the reason you don't vote third party is because you don't want to "throw your vote away", then i'm going to assume that you would have otherwise voted for the third party.

But most of the time a third party canidate is just a detractor (split vote) from the true winning party - Rep or Dem. I just dont like throwing my vote away. Just like Perot helped the elder Bush lose in 92, Nader helped Gore blow 2000.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Republicans are more Libertarian than Democrats by definition.
Only if you get your definitions from the GOP newsletter.

Its a mistake to think you have to sign on to all the beliefs of the current party leadership.
Can you say Jim Jeffords? Ben Nighthorse Campbell? Richard Shelby?

The Democrats used to be Proslavery, you would never guess now. The Republicans freed the slaves but do most African-Americans vote for them, no.
Another true but misleading fact. Lincoln freed slaves out of political necessity . . . not b/c it was the right thing to do. Granted after they were emancipated the official line became . . . it's the right thing to do. The truest non-black advocates for abolition were typically northern Protestants (Shakers, Quakers, Lutherans) . . . pretending that the Party of Lincoln was on a crusade to rid America of this blight is disingenuous, at best.

Byrd D-WV, Hollings D-SC, Thurmond R-SC, Helms R-NC all have public records ranging from card-carrying Klan (Byrd) to simple race baiting (Helms, granted I wouldn't doubt his empathy for Klan activity). Jim Crow laws were executed throughout the South using the dominance of the Democratic Party. But as the groundswell for reform engulfed the Democratic Party many racists in the Democratic Party found the Republicans to be more like-minded (Helms, Thurmond). African-Americans disproportionately support Democrats (to their detriment) b/c the past forty years of Republican politics DO NOT exemplify Libertarian principles of fairness. Unfortunately they have aligned themselves with Democratic principles of fairness.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

If only people could check their fat, overbearing political opinions at the door and enter with an open mind, maybe we could have discussions instead of arguments.

If you make any generalizations about any political party, you are going to get objectors. Republicans are not baby eaters, not all republicans worship Rush, not all republicans are Christian, etc.

On the same note, not all democrats are tree huggers, not all democrats hate Rush with a passion, not all democrats are atheists, etc.

Oh, and not all libertarians are anarchists.

 

[Ornery]

Where REALLY important issues are concerned, you may as well vote GOP as Libertarian. I bet your Libertarian candidate more closely matches the GOP platform than the Democrat one. Why not make your choices on the issues in the AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SELECTOR and see if I'm not right. Some of their answers to the questions were vague, except for Bush, so it was hard for me to place them. But if you answer the questions yourself in the selector, you'll see which ideologies more closely match up in the end. Take a look below and just see who is usually the odd man out:

• 
  1. ABORTION ISSUES: Which views on the issue of abortion would you prefer your candidate advocate?
  • 
    "Pro-Choice" Harry Browne, Gore
    Neither
    "Pro-Life" Bush
  2. MINORITY ISSUES: Would you prefer your candidate support or oppose such legislation as affirmative action?
  • 
    Oppose Bush, Harry Browne
    Neither
    Support Gore
  3. CAMPAIGN FINANCE: Would you prefer your candidate support or oppose campaign finance reform?
  • 
    Oppose Reform (Lift restrictions on contributions) Bush, Harry Browne, Gore
    Neither
    Support Reform (Abolish "softmoney" contributions, etc.)
  4. CRIME: Some candidates have outlined their approach to minimizing crime. Which approach do you prefer your candidate stress?
  • 
    Support "get tough" approach,e.g. longer prison sentences Bush
    Neither Harry Browne
    Support preventive approach, e.g. educational & recreational programs Gore
  5. DEFENSE SPENDING: Would you prefer your candidate advocate an increase or decrease in the defense spending budget?
  • 
    Support increase Bush, Harry Browne, Gore
    Neither
    Support decrease
  6. DRUG POLICY: Some presidential candidates support an increase in drug crime prosecution and penalties while some favor a decriminalization or complete legalization of what are currently drug crimes. What stance would you like your candidate to adopt?
  • 
    Support increased prosecution and penalties Bush, Gore
    Neither
    Support decriminalization Harry Browne
  7. GAY RIGHTS: Some candidates believe that sexual orientation is an unchangeable characteristic and support across the board equality under civil law for gay and lesbian Americans. On the other end of the spectrum, some believe that gay relationships are a destructive assault on the heterosexual, marriage-based family. What policies would you like your candidate to favor?
  • 
    Support legislative equality for homosexuals. Gore
    Neither
    Oppose special legislationconcerning homosexuality. Bush, Harry Browne
  8. EDUCATION: Some presidential candidates support school choice. Others see it as a separation of church and state issue. What position would you like your candidate to support?
  • 
    Favor School Choice Bush
    Neither Harry Browne
    Support tax dollars for public schools only Gore
  9. ENVIRONMENT: Which position regarding the environment would your ideal candidate advocate?
  • 
    Support the environment only after considering market and private property concerns. Bush
    Neither Harry Browne
    Support environmental protection legislation Gore
  10. EVOLUTION VS. CREATIONISM: Some presidential candidates favor the teaching of Creationism in public schools along evolution which is currently taught in science classes. What's your opinion?
  • 
    Support the situation as it is now: evolution only Gore
    Neither Harry Browne
    Support legislation including the teaching of Creationism Bush
  11. FOREIGN POLICY: Would you prefer your candidate embrace an non-interventionist or interventionist approach to foreign policy?
  • 
    Support non-interventionist Harry Browne
    Neither
    Support interventionist Bush, Gore
  12. GUN CONTROL: Would you prefer your candidate oppose or support gun control legislation?
  • 
    Oppose Bush, Harry Browne
    Neither
    Support Gore
  13. HEALTH CARE: Would you prefer your candidate support increased federal involvement in health care? Or would you prefer health care be an area outside governmental control?
  • 
    Support health care as primarily the responsibility of the individual Bush, Harry Browne
    Neither
    Support health care as primarily the responsibility of the government Gore
  14. MORAL ISSUES: Would you prefer your candidate favor federal, state and/or local legislation supporting "traditional values" such as advocating prayer in public schools, promoting teen-age sexual abstinence and restricting access to Internet pornography?
  • 
    Support legislation of "traditional values". Bush
    Neither Harry Browne
    Oppose legislation of "traditional values". Gore
  15. SOCIAL SECURITY: Would you prefer your candidate promise to preserve or reform (including dismantle) Social Security?
  • 
    Support reforming Bush, Harry Browne
    Neither
    Support preserving Gore
  16. TAX POLICY: Various candidates have promised to overhaul the federal income tax codes. They differ in how extreme the proposed changes would be.
  • 
    Support retaining current system Gore
    Neither
    Support reforming or abolishing Bush, Harry Browne
  17. TRADE ISSUES: Would you prefer your candidate be an advocate of free trade or trade controls like tariffs and embargoes?
  • 
    Support free-trade Bush, Harry Browne, Gore
    Neither
    Support trade controls

 

[Ferocious]

Either Republicans or Democrats will have the majority power at the Fed level, and in the vast majority of States.......for many decades to come. Unless real campaign finance reform occurs.

Though a bit hesitant, I have to go along with Jessy Ventura's belief that political campaigns should be completely publicly funded.

BTW, for those interested.....complete public funding of political campaigns is an issue where true-Liberals and true-Libertarians have a completely opposite point of view....IMO.

 

[ToBeMe]

As far as the Presidential selector goes....I chose to vote for Bush and here is how the selector returned my choices............

• Score Candidates
  80 George W. Bush
  76 Alan Keyes
  69 Howard Phillips
  61 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
  50 Harry Browne
  43 John Hagelin
  29 Albert Gore Jr.
  19 David McReynolds
  12 Ralph Nader

 

[Lounatik]

Here is my score from the test:
1.Harry Browne 85 (Perfect, since I am a Libertarian)
2.GW Bush
3.Alan Keyes
And the list degenerates from there. People who are Libertarian are most concerned about individual freedom and how much of this freedom we are losing every day. Almost every Libertarian,to a man(or woman) would also agree that individual responsibility is the key to a successful life. It bothers people to no end when you tell them that the government has no right to give our taxpayer money(which they take at the threat of gunpoint)to the survivors of the 9/11 attacks.Oh my gosh,I am so callous! Really? Why should I be responsible for some dumb schmuck who didnt insure himself and his family against death? Again, it comes down to personal responsiblity. If a 16 yearold girl has a baby,why should I be responsible for paying her doctor bills? Then this girl won't ever go to school and then she will download a few more kids and then her kids will do the same.And the responsibility will fall on my shoulders because the Imperial Federal Government will sap me for my 40% because they can get away with it.

Another issue is the legalization of drugs.Harry Browne has said that the war on drugs is a complete failure.Most drug use has not gone down at all.The drugs continue to pour into this country at an alarming rate. Legalizing them now puts the responsibility(again there is that nasty word)on the bunghole who decides to do the drugs.Now,what people do in their own homes should be of no business to the government,as long as it does not interfere with my rights and liberties(my, meaning anyone else). Now here is the good part:If you do something that violates my rights and liberty while on drugs ,you pay a hefty fine,including prison time.Think about it,Im sitting in my house toking on a doobie, minding my own business,when the law busts into my house. Am I violating anyones rights? No. Am I denying anyone their freedom ? Again the answer is no. So why cant I sit in my house and get toasted? If I drive while high,I get caught,I go to jail.Just like now.The prisons are full of nonviolent offenders(readruggies and dealers)who have taken up space in prison where a violent criminal deserves to be.Oh,but what about the crack addict who needs help,but cant get it?Sorry,you knew about the risks before you got into it.Its not my responsibiltiy to be your mother, or your conscience for that matter.So yes,I am saying that the people who choose to do this to themselves are ultimately responsible.
The government has become one big handout program where politicians use the federal coffers as their own little treasure chest in which to buy votes.These are just a few of the reasons why I am a libertarian.

Check out that American Presidential Selector thingie about Harry Browne,it is very interesting.Also if you want to be enlightened on the Libertarian Party go to the Neal Boortz home page. He is a talk show host here in Atlanta(and recently went national) and is probably the main reason Georgia has the largest Libertarian base in the country.

Do a little homework about libertarianism and you just may change your view.




Peace





Lounatik

 

[AGodspeed]

The sticking point with being a libertarian for me is legalizing all drugs, one of the dumbest proposals in history IMO.

Lol at Texmaster.

 

[Swag1138]

Great googly moogly!

85 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
82 Howard Phillips
80 Alan Keyes
75 George W. Bush
70 Harry Browne
53 John Hagelin
25 David McReynolds
21 Ralph Nader
13 Albert Gore Jr.


I supporeted G.W., and I am not a large fan of Pat Buchanan (hes too isolationist for me) but Id not looked into Howard Phillips or Alan Keyes too much.

 

[Maetryx]

Maetryx here,

91 Ambassador Alan Keyes (I love that guy!)
86 Howard Phillips (he's the Constitution Party)
75 Patrick Buchanan (I used to like him, but he switched parties)
74 George W. Bush
71 Harry Browne
.
.
20 Ralph Nader
14 Al Gore (I'm amazed it was this high)

That's why I'm a conservative and not a libertarian. Libertarians want to abolish the legislative branch (sort of) and hand all the power to the judicial branch. Since there would be very little uniformly applied laws, everything would come down to a court battle, with judges wielding all the power.

 

[Texmaster]

<<
We aren't takling about Reagan or his friends. Stick to the subject of Bush supporters.
>>





<< I mentioned both reagan and bush, stop trying to spin it like i only mentioned reagan. >>



Regean was NEVER the subject. Stop trying to introduce a new one.



<< And Bush's faith based initiative doesn't mean for a SECOND it was supported by even a majority of Republicans. Where do you get your statistics? >>



"The president campaigned last year on his faith-based
initiative, which he saw as a way to free religious charitable
organizations to work in society. A bill based on his plan
passed the House in July by 233-198, with 15 Democrats
joining all but four Republicans in supporting it."

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ivuEZ8dylYw:www.washtimes.com/national/20011207-528698.htm+bush+faith+based+senate&hl=en[/i] >>




And NONE of that talks about the people only who their elected officials voted for. Are you so naive to think that politicians always vote as the majority of people think? LOL




<< While it's true it has yet to be passed by the Senate because of disagreements in a democrat controlled senate, CLEARLY, nearly every single republican in the House voted in favor of it. You're almost as bad as Rush Limbaugh when trying to spin things. Lets use facts here. >>



I said the majorty of repubicans not the majority of the SENATE you simpleton. You have Zero facts to support that the vast majority of republicans, only the elected officials.

Try again.

And I'm still waiting for the statistics on how the majority of republicans believe the same things as the Christian Coalition! LOL




<<
But since you brought it up, lets look at faith based charities. With all of the problems and behind the table deals with the Red Cross and the United Way, only one major charity has only an 8% overhead (ie 92% of the money gets to the people) and thats the Salvation Army, a faith based charity.
>>



Wow, you give several examples that suit YOUR viewpoints, but ignore the fact that there are THOUSANDS of non-profit organizations. [/i] >>



So where are your statisics to challenge mine? I took the 3 biggest charities in the country. Lets see you prove your case.



<< That and you change the subject from the real issue, that being the seperation of church and state. >>



LOL You brought UP the subject! Oh man, what a riot.




<< LOL McCain is a hothead that has upset BOTH sides of the Isle. You might as well vote for Ralph Nader. Reality cheak buddy, no one that pisses both parties off will be able to do a THING as president. >>



Riiiiight, so let me get this straight, because McCain is strong in his conviction and (allegedly) pisses people off in both parties ,that is a reason why i shouldn't vote for him? Logic? Reasoning? None? Ok then.[/i] >>



HAHAHA What do you mean allegedly? Did you just stop reading the paper and crawl into a cave? LOL



<< You must know how to get along, McCain doesn't know how to do that.

When you try to please everyone, you risk not sticking with your convictions. >>



HAHAHAHAHA right. Sticking to your convictions doesn't mean you have to piss people off. McCain does that as a side business.



<< Gotta go for now but please do a little more research next time before posting. >>





<< This comming from someone who applies the "Rush Limbaugh Research Technique" >>



Thats right. You tried to change the subject 3 times. All I'm doing is trying to keep you on track.

 

[jbod]

Wow, that was right on the money...I voted for Alan Keyes in the Primaries and George W. Bush for the General Election...And I voted Libertarian Harry Brown in 1996!

Pretty cool.


Score Candidates
83 Alan Keyes
79 George W. Bush
79 Harry Browne
68 Howard Phillips
68 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
49 John Hagelin
21 Albert Gore Jr.
18 David McReynolds
11 Ralph Nader

 

[Texmaster]

<< I think Texmaster was refering to Republican Voters, not Republican House Representatives.

Clearly, texmaster doesn't specify, and even if he did mean it, i'm sure it's just one of his BS lies. >>



I said republicans. Do you see Congress or House in there? LOL

Give it up. You were caught assuming. Just admit you were wrong and move on.[/i] >>




Thanks Ornery

92 George W. Bush
81 Alan Keyes
79 Howard Phillips
68 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
61 Harry Browne
54 John Hagelin
25 Albert Gore Jr.
11 David McReynolds
11 Ralph Nader

 

[Nefrodite]

bah, there is a point to a 2 party system. it makes sure that any candidate elected has the support and needs to please a wide group of people. otherwise you become like other countries where there are many many parties, anyone elected from these has the support of a tiny portion of the population and can't really represent the people. so a vote for a 3rd party ccandidate right now is a wasted vote. voting is a practical thing.. or should be. sometimes its better to make do then throw the baby out with the bathwater

 

[jbod]

OMG Texmaster this link------------------->Secret Defense for Liberals Against the Vast Right Winged Conspiracy


....is soooooo funny.

It seems that liberals cannot think for themselves! They were forcefed lies from the day they were born....

Especially Hollywood types, they make me sick....phlkk!

 

[Nefrodite]

ah, yes the hollywood ppl. the second you said that i knew that you've been listening to too much right wing trash radio. your nothing but a right wing zealot.

 

[Mister T]

Score Candidates
77 Harry Browne
69 George W. Bush
67 Alan Keyes
58 Howard Phillips
54 Patrick J. (Pat) Buchanan
54 John Hagelin
35 David McReynolds
27 Albert Gore Jr.
26 Ralph Nader

I vote GOP because my political views are based soley on economics, i.e., my wallet

 

[jbod]

<< ah, yes the hollywood ppl. the second you said that i knew that you've been listening to too much right wing trash radio. your nothing but a right wing zealot. >>



So I guess you are a left-wing zealot?

No, I only get to hear the right-wing trash radio a couple of minutes a day. But I get to hear and watch the left-wing trash several hours a month. Throughout my whole life watching TV (I'm 30) I have seen so much garbage compared to listening to the The Truth on the radio.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Do a little homework about libertarianism and you just may change your view. >>


LOL! I did before the last election and that's the main reason I voted for Bush! If I had only read about the views Browne had on the issues concerning me, I may have voted for him, but, then I saw the whole drug stance and read about Browne in depth as well as the Libertarian Party and decided they aren't for me! Personally, I don't think Browne is the man for the job, and I think the Libertarian Party itself needs to solidify to where they are all going in one direction and share a common view as well as a common candidate before they have even a remote chance of being a factor!

 

[Nefrodite]

I have seen so much garbage compared to listening to the The Truth on the radio.


oh right.. the truth. you gotta trust a media outlet that proclaims itself as the only "truth" around.

 

[jbod]

oh right.. the truth. you gotta trust a media outlet that proclaims itself as the only "truth" around.

No, this media outlet I am calling the truth does not proclaim to be the truth, it is my opinion. I make my own decisions.

 

[Nefrodite]

no, actually they do call themselves the only venue for the truth. i listen to the enemy camp every once in a while for kicks.

 

[jbod]

I'll bet you're still crying about how George W. "stole" the election...

Thank God for some sensible people left in Washington.

 

[AAjax]

I am a registerd Libertarian but almost allways vote Republican and the Libertarian's cant seem to field a good canidate. A pitty

 

[Ornery]

OMG, I just ventured into "enemy camp". I can't believe what I'm reading!

• "You'll never hear liberals propose the government
  sacrifice. The government shall never do with a dime
  less than what it had the previous year"

The bastard! :Q