Does anyone actually want homes prices to tank even more?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,603
126
Home prices are down around 40-50% from peak in the town where I live.

If I had bought now rather than several years ago, I could have gotten a 2000+ sq foot house with 2 car garage for what I paid for a 1000 sq foot ranch with no garage.

Ohh well ... (note: sq footage can be deceptive as I have about 600 sq feet of my basement finished, but that does not count towards overall sq footage)
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
valuations aren't believable. real estate is transitioning into a deprecating asset. Your primary reason to by a house should be shelter for you and your family.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,411
10
0
valuations aren't believable. real estate is transitioning into a deprecating asset. Your primary reason to by a house should be shelter for you and your family.

Ding Ding Ding

This applies to now and future, as much as the past.

Don't EVER look at a house as an investment . Look at it as a place to live!!!

....and hope you will make some money WAY down the road.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Home prices here never dropped. Never really bubbled either.


Ding Ding Ding

This applies to now and future, as much as the past.

Don't EVER look at a house as an investment . Look at it as a place to live!!!

....and hope you will make some money WAY down the road.
For the people who say a home is a bad investment, a 1000 times, this.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
I'm shopping for a house and they are still over priced.

And current home owners should be happy about lowered homes prices because they can get re-assessed and pay lower property taxes.

Negative. They just raise the tax rates. I fear the housing price climb back up because those rates wont go down and I'll end up paying a massive amount of taxes.
 

Gunbuster

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,852
23
81
Low prices are all well and good until complete trashy scum start moving into your neighborhood. I'm thankful most of the cheap houses by me are getting snatched up buy groups that upgrade/flip them.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
82
86
Prices in the bay area are up because all the new IPO millionaires. That, and realtors put up fake higher priced ads to sell you an overpriced property.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Canadians have commented on how expensive their real estate is, but I don't think their market ever popped (their banks were apparently conservative in mortgage lending, requiring the traditional 20% down). Sounds like they may still have a developing bubble, from comments I've seen posted by others.
Sort of yes and sort of no. The lending rules before the bubble were:
-minimum 5% down payment, but you require loan default insurance if your down payment is less than 20%
-maximum mortgage is 30 years

In response to the housing crash of the US:
-maximum mortgage changed to 25 years
-minimum of 20% down payment before investment properties can get loan default insurance through the government
-maximum refinance is 90% instead of 95%
-the government will not insure homes over $1,000,000

This effectively deflates the bubble without crashing. 25 years instead of 30 years means you can't borrow as much money, so housing prices should go down IMO. My coworker is a real estate guy and he thinks it will go up by 10% for some reasaon; I didn't think his explanation made any sense. Boosting the down payment up to 20% for investments should deter some investors, and that too would bring the prices down more IMO. I know a lot of people were upset about these rule changes, but I think it beat the alternative - a hard market crash.



Regarding property taxes, if your local government has gotten used to all that extra revenue and can't or isn't willing to cut spending, then they will just increase the rate to offset decreased assessments. You can probably just realistically hope that property taxes go up more slowly going forward.
This is true. Can you imagine how incredibly unstable the government would be if taxes wildly fluctuated with the market? One year everything is ok, real estate prices drop 20%, suddenly the whole city is completely fucked and cancels all road construction for the next 5 years. The taxes on the property were part of the calculations you did before buying the house, so they know you can keep paying that much. Market drops 20%? You still owe us $3,000 taxes and it doesn't matter what percentage of your land value that works out to.


If you are planning on buying with a mortgage, I think there is some sort of rule (forgot specific numbers, but I think it is something like 1% change in mortgage rates is equivalent to 5% effective change in price, when viewed from the point of affordability). Assuming no hyper-inflation down the road, seems like mortgage rates might creep up slowly to more normal 6% range (still low by historical standards), if economy starts to pick up speed in a few years.
I did a shit load of Excel spreadsheets a couple months ago when before jumping into a mortgage. Some of the things really surprised me:

when making the minimum payments for the same $100,000 property:
-Cost of borrowing (interest on the loan) and length of the loan are extremely linear. Taking 10% longer to pay off 100k will cost you 10% more in borrowing costs, the R^2 of the graph was 0.998

-Cost of borrowing and interest rate are extremely linear. The interest on a 4% loan is twice as much as the interest on a 2% loan. R^2 is 0.9991 for a 25 year loan.

-Interest rate has a larger effect on loans with longer terms. For every 5 years, a 1% interest increase is equivalent to a 1.28% jump. It's hard to put into words what I'm trying to explain. Let's say you have a loan at 1% interest for 10 years. If the interest goes up by 1%, that 10 year loan now costs 2% for 10 years. If you had a loan for 15 years instead of 10 years, going from 1% to 2% interest over 15 years is the same cost increase as jumping from 1% to 2.28% for 10 years. I didn't put an R^2 on this graph, but it's very linear and the trend line passes through all of the data points. The formula I wrote at the bottom of the page is:
relative cost of borrowing = (interest rate) * (mortgage years / 5) * 1.28


When making fixed payments (paying $900/mo regardless of what the minimum payment is):
-Cost of borrowing increases exponentially with time. Using my own information and a very pessemistic interest rate of 5%, every $1 worth of property above $108,000 will cost me $2.08 and it gets worse as the value goes up. This means it makes a lot of sense to buy properties in a series of small steps. A series of short loans will have a linear cost of borrowing. You start at 100k, pay it off, then move up to 200k. If I start at a 200k property, the cost of borrowing is just horrendous.

If you have some time to kill, put your own numbers into here and start plotting data points:
http://www.ratesupermarket.ca/mortgage/rate_calculator/
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,363
11,731
136
Home prices are down around 40-50% from peak in the town where I live.

If I had bought now rather than several years ago, I could have gotten a 2000+ sq foot house with 2 car garage for what I paid for a 1000 sq foot ranch with no garage.

Ohh well ... (note: sq footage can be deceptive as I have about 600 sq feet of my basement finished, but that does not count towards overall sq footage)

We're in even worse shape than that. In 2006, my house was worth over $400k....now, maybe $130K.
I DO NOT want to see housing tank any more around here. I'd LIKE to be able to sell this place so we can move out of California by next year.
 

alm99

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2000
4,560
0
0
Home prices here never dropped. Never really bubbled either.



For the people who say a home is a bad investment, a 1000 times, this.

I would have to agree. Central NY hasn't really done much in either direction.
 

Tommy2000GT

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2000
1,832
3
81
Prices in the bay area are up because all the new IPO millionaires. That, and realtors put up fake higher priced ads to sell you an overpriced property.

yes.

also there are massive amounts of over paid Google and Facebook slave labor employees now. They are buying up all of the houses in the bay area too
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
As a side question -- why do tech companies prefer to be located on the west coast?
closer to India and China = easier to highly educated labor
Indians are the most educated race in America. Orientals are second most educated. California has a very large Asian population compared to the rest of the country.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
Buying a home right now is financial suicide. There are countless resources out there that can show you when it's a good time to buy and you would have to live in a very special area for the numbers to add up. Real estate is partially linked to rent prices as well as interest rates. Right now interest rates are so low that your total cost is going to look good even if the selling price doesn't. However if you can rent a place for hundreds of thousands of dollars less than buying you might want to think twice before paying that premium.

Most people under 40 are not going to enjoy the wealth creation that real estate afforded their parents and grandparents. You should only be buying right now if you have no choice or really feel that the price of your own piece of land and shelter is worth it. Whatever you do - don't over extend yourselves. You're not going to get rich on property. You're probably going to lose money on it. Just make sure you're losing less than if you rented.

The financial troubles of 2008 are just the beginning. If you haven't been keeping abreast on events in Europe it's probably time to do so. We're about to see an implosion in the eurozone that will probably plunge the entire continent into depression. Since the USA is linked to the destinies of countries and companies there ($328,741,000,000 in exports, $448,488,000,000 in imports. The EU is our largest trading partner.) you should expect the economy to be hit here very hard. Countless American companies will find themselves with European companies unable to pay their debts. Trade will be turned on its head. This will in turn effect everything - unemployment for example. Housing is your biggest liability so it would be a very good idea to think twice before purchasing vs renting.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
Buying a home right now is financial suicide. There are countless resources out there that can show you when it's a good time to buy and you would have to live in a very special area for the numbers to add up. Real estate is partially linked to rent prices as well as interest rates. Right now interest rates are so low that your total cost is going to look good even if the selling price doesn't. However if you can rent a place for hundreds of thousands of dollars less than buying you might want to think twice before paying that premium.

Most people under 40 are not going to enjoy the wealth creation that real estate afforded their parents and grandparents. You should only be buying right now if you have no choice or really feel that the price of your own piece of land and shelter is worth it. Whatever you do - don't over extend yourselves. You're not going to get rich on property. You're probably going to lose money on it. Just make sure you're losing less than if you rented.

The financial troubles of 2008 are just the beginning. If you haven't been keeping abreast on events in Europe it's probably time to do so. We're about to see an implosion in the eurozone that will probably plunge the entire continent into depression. Since the USA is linked to the destinies of countries and companies there ($328,741,000,000 in exports, $448,488,000,000 in imports. The EU is our largest trading partner.) you should expect the economy to be hit here very hard. Countless American companies will find themselves with European companies unable to pay their debts. Trade will be turned on its head. This will in turn effect everything - unemployment for example. Housing is your biggest liability so it would be a very good idea to think twice before purchasing vs renting.

Unless you view it as a place to live and a home for the next 20-30 years. I'm not gonna rent, and I don't view it as any sort of investment for retirement.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
valuations aren't believable. real estate is transitioning into a deprecating asset. Your primary reason to by a house should be shelter for you and your family.

REALITY BURN!

just last year someone told me right to my face with that stupid 'im smart too' tone in their voice: "well, a house never loses its value!" and it stopped me dead cold. i was like "really dude? youre going to say that now? "
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Buying a home right now is financial suicide. There are countless resources out there that can show you when it's a good time to buy and you would have to live in a very special area for the numbers to add up. Real estate is partially linked to rent prices as well as interest rates. Right now interest rates are so low that your total cost is going to look good even if the selling price doesn't. However if you can rent a place for hundreds of thousands of dollars less than buying you might want to think twice before paying that premium.
:thumbsup:
Instead of buying houses when they are at record low prices with record low interest rates, people should wait until real estate prices go up before buying a house. This makes perfect sense. What kind of idiot buys a house when they cost $100,000? That's the worst time to buy. The best time to buy is when they cost $300,000, just before the interest rates start going up as a way of slowing down the economy.

The other day, my woman was telling me that she should buy a winter coat right now because they're cheaper at this time. I smacked that dumb bitch in the face. What kind of stupid woman logic is that? Buy a coat when you don't even need one? I'm going to wait until it snows then buy one. I would rather have that money IN MY POCKET.
 

Tommy2000GT

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2000
1,832
3
81
So some people are saying there will be next wave of foreclosures and drop in home prices.

And someone people speculate it has hit bottom last year/early this year and now it will keep going up.

What to do?

 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
So some people are saying there will be next wave of foreclosures and drop in home prices.

And someone people speculate it has hit bottom last year/early this year and now it will keep going up.

What to do?


1) Make a ballpark estimate of how much prices will go down in the next couple of years (always assume they will go down).
2) Calculate the cost of renting over the next couple of years.
3) Compare numbers 1 and 2.

I'll give you some numbers and you can tell me if I should buy a home or not.

1) property value:
A condo equivalent to my current living space will cost $140,000. After going through all the numbers for mortgage, taxes, electricity, and condo fees, the monthly cost to buy that $140,000 property is about $1,300 per month.

2) cost of renting:
Me and the Abused Wife live in a basement suite which costs $950/mo for rent and about $200/mo to pay for half of the house utilities. Believe it or not, that's actually a good deal. Add those together and our total living cost is $1,150/mo or $13,800 per year to rent.

3) comparing the two:
Renting for another year will have a net loss of $13,800. In your city or town, what is the probability that a $140,000 property you buy today will be worth $126,200 or less next year?

Looking at the numbers, would you buy a home or would you rent for another year? Yes and no are both good answers as long as you can explain your answer.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
New York Times has run a whole series of articles over the years about renting vs. buying: https://www.google.com/search?q=New...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a There is an interactive calculator linked with those articles, too.

They also have their rent ratio metric series of articles: https://www.google.com/search?q=ren...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


Most important decision is how long do you honestly plan to live in the house? (rule of thumb is usually at least 5 - 7 years so in a more normally appreciating market (2 - 3% per year), home price will have gone up enough over time to cover buying and selling costs). (Living in the home for a few years, then converting it to a rental while you upgrade to a new house doesn't count, in my opinion).

If you are interested in buying because you want to try and get rich or you think you are throwing away money by renting, I would lean towards renting, all else being equal.

If you are planning on putting down roots for the long term, I suspect this will look like a great time to buy (actually last winter / early this year probably was probably bottom) in retrospect. But I would view your house as a hedge against inflation, rather than investment.

Adage that all real estate is local is probably becoming more meaningful now, so you have to look at projected growth in local economy, growth in jobs and salaries, and in your immediate metro area, how constrained by lack of new land to build on market will always be.

I've read comments that banks are holding foreclosures and short sales from market, so you might want to ask your realtor where that shadow inventory is in your area (I suspect it is mainly in the inland areas that were grossly overbuilt when people thought home prices always go up and they were willing to deal with brutal commute because they were going to get rich).
 
Last edited:

RaistlinZ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
7,629
10
91
I bought my condo about two months ago and I can attest that inventories are getting real tight in northern Virginia. I put a bid on this condo the day it came on the market for full asking price (turnkey, new appliances, excellent condition) and was lucky I didn't get outbid. Every other 2 bed 2.5 bath I saw was a piece of garbage and not much cheaper.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |