Does anyone else kinda feel bad for JcPenney, or do they deserve the abuse?

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,899
2,136
126
I loved JCPenney back in the day.

They used to be a huge catalog company. Anything that you ever wanted was in the catalog and they used to offer free shipping to the stores.

They also had great store brands like Towncraft and Stafford. (yes they were nothing to brag about) They were just store branded clothes that used to be very good quality and a good price. Hell some of their stuff lasted longer that the fancier name brands.

But that was in the 70-80s. Once they reached the 90's they went downhill.

The new stores are trying to get fancy with bringing in all their name brand junk. I guess they are trying to compete with the Macy's and Nordstroms of the world. But guess what? That is not their customer base. They need to go for the folks in the middle. Those that want something better that Walmart but more affordable that Macy's. Kohl's is doing that right now. They seem to cater well to those folks.

To this day, Stafford white t-shirts are the best tshirts ever made. They're thick, they last forever, and never stretch out. I wear them every day under my work shirt...some are 3 years old and still look new.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
Except for the fact that I can return any damaged tool to sears for a replacement. I'd like to see u try that at hf.

That is still true I'll grant you, but if you are breaking hand tools, you're using them wrong. No such warranty on power tools, hasn't been for a long time.

There are still Craftsman tools that are made in USA, you just have to pay more for them. And those are lifetime guaranteed, so I have no idea what you're bitching about.

Can i ask what craftsman stuff you purchased, because most of the craftsman hand tools i purchased in the last 3 years are stamped made in the usa. all of my sockets, wrenches, ratchets, hand impact driver, sledge hammer, made in usa. Things like their jack stands, leveler, allen wrenches, and screw driver tips are made in china though.

The Craftsman Companion blue handled and Evolve garbage is all made overseas, but that's understood. I have been watching slickdeals with deal alerts for combination wrenches and socket sets for a year or so now. I've bought a couple of sets, but many people are warning on whether the items are old stock MIUSA or new stock MIC stuff. I'm finding threads on forums with a quick Google search asserting the same.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
I don't feel bad for JCP but at the same time I feel bad for big department stores overall. JCP seems to be mismanaged but the department store model has a place in the economy for good khakis/ties/dress clothes.

I don't think online shopping can really replace the feel and quality of a department store but all the sacrifices they are making hurts their own business model trying to be like wal-mart and target.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,030
4
61
JCP sucks. I contacted them last year about a problem with their website. It allows you to search shoes by size - except it shows shoes that aren't actually available in the size you're searching for.

They told me how sorry they were, and proceeded not to solve the problem. I've found a new supplier that saves me money, too.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
I don't know if stealing is the correct term to use. JCP approached Martha Stewart's company and negotiated a deal. No stealing found. If anything, Martha Stewart is as complicit in the debacle of JCP and Macy's as JCP is....Martha Stewart should have refused the deal in the first place if there truly was an exclusive deal with Macy's, beyond what KMart has.

And, btw, JCP bought ~16.8% of the Martha Stewart company after the deal between JCP and MS was inked. So again, no stealing really found.

And in the lawsuit, there is an exemption for Martha Stewart selling goods in other stores, as long as the store is a Martha Stewart store, so it seems that the intent was to set up Martha Stewart Living stores within each JCP, which would have let JCP skirt the contract MS had with Macy's.

Also, an appeals court upheld JCP continuing to sell Martha Stewart items, since the items were not labeled Martha Stewart specifically.


Oh, and all the bashing of Johnson and his "lack of knowledge of clothing retailers", here's a bolt of lightning. Prior to his work at Apple, he revamped Target and led its efforts to partner with big-name designers and brands. So it seems Johnson did have prior experience with clothing retailers and did well, just miscalculated the demographic who shopped JCP and what his actions would produce.

It is this. He thought JCP shoppers were similar to Target shoppers. Where JCP shoppers were in a fact more like Walmart shoppers.

The market isnt big enough for the current number of lower end department stores, especially when certain discounters are trying to get that market as well. JCP saw that and tried to take a proactive approach in a changing market. It failed big time.
 
Last edited:

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Clothes are a commodity. I hadn't set foot in a JCP in years before hearing the story. There are still some vague apple store-ish aspects still there from Ron Johnson.

But yeah, if I buy clothes it'll be discount at like Marshalls. Which isn't really that much of a discount now that I think about it...

Like, Old Navy doesn't do crazy sales like JCP, right? And they're doing fine. So it's not a bad concept, but it was the wrong company and wrong brand.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,028
29,933
146
Yeah.. but their NEW CEO was the one who had the bright idea of bringing in Joe Fresh and creating those new "We're sorry about screwing up, please contact us on how to do better" commercials.

Gee... maybe you can start by inspecting the factories that your new products are made in before making a major investment in them? You would think that would be a given after the Apple/Foxconn PR debacle.

I forget his name at the moment, but the guy was an anointed Wunderkind for his role with Apple from the dismal days pre-iPod up until the iPad, I believe.

of course, what the business community (that largely agreed that this guy was an infallible genius) failed to realize, is the difference between marketing Apples products to Apple's customers vs JC Penny to JC Penny customers.

Even Willy Lowman could sell an iPod.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
This is news to me. I read several news sites daily along with local and have missed this whole series of jc pennys events
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
I forget his name at the moment, but the guy was an anointed Wunderkind for his role with Apple from the dismal days pre-iPod up until the iPad, I believe.

of course, what the business community (that largely agreed that this guy was an infallible genius) failed to realize, is the difference between marketing Apples products to Apple's customers vs JC Penny to JC Penny customers.

Even Willy Lowman could sell an iPod.

Ron Johnson was responsible for the retail Apple Stores. Prior to the huge success of Apple stores, NO ONE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE. He was also responsible for a successful rebrand of Targets clothing lines which made their clothing lines trendier and in general rebooted the Target brand. The same trendier clothing just didn't work with JCPs core consumers. Target was always more upscale than say Kmart or Target, and tended attract trendier consumers. JCP has never been upscale compared to Sears, etc, and it has NEVER been trendy.

Basically under Johnson they alienated their biggest consumer, the frumpy mom. They tried to rebrand into a trendier store, but trendy people never shopped at JCP. They still don't. So without new shoppers and alienating their previous core consumer, it turned into a colossal failure.
 
Last edited:

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
It is just me, or is JcPenney having really BAD luck for the past few months?

First they revamp the stores and get rid of their sales and coupons, pissing off a bunch of a bunch their established customers. They "fix" that by raising their new "everyday low" prices, pissing off some customers who liked the new concept. Nice one.

Then they add Joe Fresh to their product lineup, which just happens to be made in that Bangladesh sweatshop factory that collapsed and killed a few hundred workers last week. Nice way to improve your already lousy image, guys. Besides... if I wanted Asian sweatshop clothes, I'd buy them at Target or Walmart.

To make things worse, they create a Twitter account and start asking for customer feedback around the same time. That Twitter account is now being flooded by people calling them murderers for using these Bangladesh sweatshops to create their clothing.

I'm not sure which is worse... JcPenney's luck, or their epicly bad management decisions. What do you guys think?

Joe Fresh and JCP are taking the brunt of this because the 29 other companies that had garments being produced at the same location are keeping their lips sealed or denying their goods where authorized to be produced in the facility. Its rumored that products being made there are sold in virtually every major department store.
 
Last edited:

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Ron Johnson was responsible for the retail Apple Stores. Prior to the huge success of Apple stores, NO ONE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE. He was also responsible for a successful rebrand of Targets clothing lines which made their clothing lines trendier and in general rebooted the Target brand. The same trendier clothing just didn't work with JCPs core consumers. Target was always more upscale than say Kmart or Target, and tended attract trendier consumers. JCP has never been upscale compared to Sears, etc, and it has NEVER been trendy.

Basically under Johnson they alienated their biggest consumer, the frumpy mom. They tried to rebrand into a trendier store, but trendy people never shopped at JCP. They still don't. So without new shoppers and alienating their previous core consumer, it turned into a colossal failure.

Pretty much this.

I dunno, how would you have done things?

They are JCP. I think I'd try to do some truly crazy deals. Like...Levi Jeans for $5 on Tuesdays.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,946
28,428
136
JCP has never been upscale compared to Sears, etc, and it has NEVER been trendy.
Until recently, JCP was always more upscale than Sears, always. Sears was frump central. JCP never competed heads-on against Macy's but was never the dump Sears was and is. For clothes, Sears was Walmart before there was a Walmart. Your statement about trendiness is correct though. JCP clothes tended to the conservative side. That was one thing I liked about PCP, they were reliable.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Pretty much this.

I dunno, how would you have done things?

They are JCP. I think I'd try to do some truly crazy deals. Like...Levi Jeans for $5 on Tuesdays.

I don't know but the frumpy/frumpy mom look just needs to die.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Until recently, JCP was always more upscale than Sears, always. Sears was frump central. JCP never competed heads-on against Macy's but was never the dump Sears was and is. For clothes, Sears was Walmart before there was a Walmart. Your statment about trendiness is correct though. JCP clothes tended to the conservative side. That was one thing I liked about PCP, they were reliable.

I dont know what JCPs you have been in but all the JCPs I have ever been in were exactly the same as Sears in terms of clothing. Sears hasn't had much of a focus on clothing for a long long time now. Right now Sears only survives because of their electronics, household appliances, and tools.

And Macy's is in a completely different market segment. So yeah JCP never competed with them. Kohls, Sears, and JCP are all in the same market segment, ALL ARE struggling, thats why JCP was trying to take a proactive approach.
 
Last edited:

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,881
53
91
I dont know what JCPs you have been in but all the JCPs I have ever been in were exactly the same as Sears in terms of clothing. Sears hasn't had much of a focus on clothing for a long long time now. Right now Sears only survives because of their electronics, household appliances, and tools.

And Macy's is in a completely different market segment. So yeah JCP never competed with them. Kohls, Sears, and JCP are all in the same market segment, ALL ARE struggling, thats why JCP was trying to take a proactive approach.

Except Covington, the line of clothing Sears sells, is utter shit.
Stafford, JCP surprised me, I actually like wearing it to work.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
What's killing JC Penny is its store placement....the same thing that's been wrecking Sears and other large department stores. Dillards, Macy's, and the other large stores that sell higher end merchandise (none of which are in my market area) can still attract business by staying in elite malls...

If you don't differentiate somehow, you get stuck in the middle. You have the low-cost leaders (Walmart/Target) who own their stores and the real estate they sit on...so it costs them less money to hold merchandise on the shelf. Furthermore, their low costs and convenience make shopping there easier....especially if you need to buy other products and don't want to deal with mall parking. Then you have the high-end slots in the Malls....like Atlanta's Lennox Square Mall.....Nashville's Green Hills Mall...where most everything is retail price. (can you tell I live in the South?)

I've seen malls in major cities that were powerhouses in the 90s fall 10 years later by losing 2-3 of the major clothing stores. After those stores are lost, many of the smaller boutiques start going...then you end up with a mall that will rent storefronts to just about anyone and the quality starts dropping fast...which can end up with an empty mall or a mall filled with teenagers up to no good. (compounded by the lack of dollars for proper mall security)

If JC Penny wants to turn itself around, they need to approach the problem the way Sears did, but do it better. They need to rethink WHERE they are and maybe start shrinking their stores to push targeted inventory in more, cheaper, locations. So limit store size, limit selection, and push volume.... Abandon the large stores in malls that aren't working for them.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
I just have 2 more of JCP $10 off $10 purchase. I better use it this weekend.

IMO, JCP is ok. I do hope they can make it and keep sending me the coupons.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Department stores as a whole have been on a decline ever since malls were invented. The departments in a department store are not needed when you have multiple stores in a mall serving the same function.
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
The single worst thing a company can do to stand out is have the lowest prices. Why do people buy Coke when cola is cheaper? Why buy a $25 pizza when you can get dominos for $8? Why buy a $6 pint of cold stone ice cream when you can get a gallon of lucerne for $4?

There is always room at the bottom for one company. But a lot of americans don't like bottom of the barrel shit.
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,554
572
136
Except for the fact that I can return any damaged tool to sears for a replacement. I'd like to see u try that at hf.

Have you done it lately? Wherever possible, they use refurbs as replacements, and it only has to be a similar item, not the same item.

I returned a 3/8" socket wrench because the ratchet mechanism began to slip, appearance wise it was in perfect condition. I was given a different model of wrench, that had most of the chrome chipped off due to someone using it as a hammer. And it's a different model that will not fit in the case the socket set came in. When I complained to management, I was told, "Take it or leave it, that's all we have". No more Craftsman for me.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,839
8,082
126
Have you done it lately? Wherever possible, they use refurbs as replacements, and it only has to be a similar item, not the same item.

I returned a 3/8" socket wrench because the ratchet mechanism began to slip, appearance wise it was in perfect condition. I was given a different model of wrench, that had most of the chrome chipped off due to someone using it as a hammer. And it's a different model that will not fit in the case the socket set came in. When I complained to management, I was told, "Take it or leave it, that's all we have". No more Craftsman for me.

Not mention hassle. I don't want disposable Chinese shit when I have something that needs to be done. A walk in warranty doesn't mean much when the wheel's off my car, and my crappy wrench broke. It's a 3 mile walk to my closest Sears, with a brutal hill, and dangerous road to get there. I'd rather the wrench just worked.
 

bigrash

Lifer
Feb 20, 2001
17,648
28
91
Never liked JC Penney. I went there a few months ago to buy a shirt for my dad and didn't like their selection (which is probably why I never go there).
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
Once they started catering to a certain group of people and gave middle finger to everyone else, they doom was inevitable.
 

M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
it's because they were trying to cater to the younger generation and alienating the older people that grew up going to the store (pennies). They brought in the former apple guy ron johnson and fashion guy nick wooster but their no coupons policy failed. Wooster only had maybe one season to implement his designs. Never had a full roll out. If you look at their JCP/Stafford/Stafford prep lines their looks have gotten more modern. Not sure if that appeals to their older gen customers.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |