does Borderlands 3 get good? Now Official B3 <3 thread

[DigDog]

nope; it's gone. Ran into a looping C2D whose only fix was to install a 3rd party tool to enable console and then re-spawn somewhere else, and if i did that i would have just hacked myself to level 57 so i just uninstalled it.

Git gud.

10 years of quake assure me that i am, in fact, gud.

 

[Igo69]

I love Borderlands 2, all of its expansions, dlcs, and even pre-sequel, it has such a nice and funny story with Handsome Jack being hilarious. game play is very fun too.
Only played BL3 for 18 hours i have to say the gun fights is fun but the story is atrocious. This game is a downgrade from BL2

 

[Aikouka]

I've talked a bit about this before on here, but I still think the first game is the best one and gets a bit of a bad rap due to its lackluster ending. (I do agree that the "ending" is not that great.) To try to sort of sum up some of my issues...

I just don't like the direction that the humor took in the second game and beyond. It might be a bit more evident if I say that my favorite story in regard to humor was the Secret Armory of General Knoxx. The dry remarks of Knoxx dealing with the annoyance of things like nepotism and such were great, and the best part... they didn't overly rely on sophomoric humor. They also seemed to focus on making characters more annoying in sequels with the biggest example being Claptrap. I've always seen the character as that lovable annoying type... sort of like a robotic Steve Urkel, but in the sequels, they took that annoying nature up to 11.

I got into this a bit in my talk about what's wrong with Looter Shooters, but the gun play hasn't felt good since the first game, and a lot of that attributes to the gun damage and health scaling that was added to the second game. I understand why they added it as I was a prime example of the issue that they were looking to solve. My max level Siren in Borderlands uses a level 47 Combustion Hellfire. The weapon is ridiculously strong against anything but heavy armored units/machines, which makes it tons of fun to use. Going back to the aforementioned post, a lot of that is the problem that's inherent with a game that focuses so heavily on randomized weaponry yet forces you to mostly use said weaponry. Once a weapon gets weak/outclassed, you have to be lucky enough to find a similar one. In ARPGs, your weapons sometimes matter based upon their type (abilities sometimes require specific weapon types), but in general, it's about their stats or bonuses. Of course, you can also add the sponginess into this as a bit of an issue.

As something a bit different, I also haven't been that big of a fan of some of the design decisions in the sequels. The altering of the UI to better suit consoles is a bit of an annoyance. An easy example of that is how the talent trees are displayed one at a time since the second game where the first game displayed all three at once. I'm also not sure that some of the game design decisions really work out well. One of the hardest aspects of Borderlands can be finding a character that you enjoy playing, and I eventually found that in the second game with Gaige. However, Gaige's design has one major flaw: Anarchy builds too slowly. The game gives you a talent to get an initial boost (I believe 150), but the problem is that the boost only puts you in the range where the bonus damage is too low to be useful and the reduced accuracy is too much. I would literally leave the game turned on because loading into a game with no Anarchy was a death sentence.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Looter shooters are generally grindy. Most allow you to use whatever weapon setup until end game and then once end game starts, viable weapons are narrowed down. BL3 isn't really different in that regard. You find an end game build that you want to try, you look up what weapons/items and stats needed, you look up drop tables for those items and you go farm. BL3 at least as a pretty decent and dedicated drop table for most of its uniques making them easier to farm. Something like Division 2 that has build outs that mostly aren't unique items but regular items with specific stat combos is much more grindy. Because they are just generic world drops that you got lucky with. It's like playing a grindy ARPG.

 

[zinfamous]

About the same here, did one playthrough with Flak and that was it. Didn't like hopping between planets & that claustrophobic ship, called Sanctuary 3. Not happy about slag removed, too. Inventory/map too much hassle really. I might re-visit BL3 in a year, though.

Ah so you're that person?

 

[zinfamous]

Looter shooters are generally grindy. Most allow you to use whatever weapon setup until end game and then once end game starts, viable weapons are narrowed down. BL3 isn't really different in that regard. You find an end game build that you want to try, you look up what weapons/items and stats needed, you look up drop tables for those items and you go farm. BL3 at least as a pretty decent and dedicated drop table for most of its uniques making them easier to farm. Something like Division 2 that has build outs that mostly aren't unique items but regular items with specific stat combos is much more grindy. Because they are just generic world drops that you got lucky with. It's like playing a grindy ARPG.

The drop rates in BL3 also aren't nearly as bad as they were in BL2 back when BL2 was current. I think they upped that calculator though, but already some years after OP levels were introduced (I think with the introduction of all the Handsome/Greatest/Remastered versions?), so it's hard for me to consider BL2 not being an endless, generally unrewarding grind.

The problem I still have with how some of the now-dedicated drops work in BL3, though, is that some of them are "locked" behind very grindy "walls," like the challenge arenas, and also at certain Mayhem levels and above. I don't like needing to run through those timed challenges for the one chance at the boss, every time. I just don't do that any more. ...that being said, nearly all but, I think ~3-5? pieces of gear in the game can also be found as random world drops...which is nice, but also not something you can really depend on, especially as Anointments determined the value of the item now--it's not enough to just get the item with decent rolls--has to be anointed, and needs to not be a shitty anointment.

 

[Aikouka]

Looter shooters are generally grindy. Most allow you to use whatever weapon setup until end game and then once end game starts, viable weapons are narrowed down. BL3 isn't really different in that regard. You find an end game build that you want to try, you look up what weapons/items and stats needed, you look up drop tables for those items and you go farm. BL3 at least as a pretty decent and dedicated drop table for most of its uniques making them easier to farm. Something like Division 2 that has build outs that mostly aren't unique items but regular items with specific stat combos is much more grindy. Because they are just generic world drops that you got lucky with. It's like playing a grindy ARPG.

I'd argue that in general, most ARPGs tend to focus heavily on the grind. It's kind of like how in Diablo III you'll spend an inordinate amount of time at max level running randomized dungeons for the same loot with slightly better stats.

Although, that's not really what I'm trying to get at when it comes to Borderlands and weapons. Going back to Diablo III, when I'm leveling and replace my yellow axe with a stronger yellow sword, it doesn't really matter how that sword attacks... my fireball still acts the same as before but it just deals more damage. In Borderlands, since the combat is so heavily leaned against gunplay, it means that the way your weapon acts greatly affects your gameplay. You may get a weapon in Borderlands that is better on paper; however, you try it out and it could shoot too slowly, have iron sights, or be very inaccurate. You kind of get into this weird Goldilocks problem where it can be hard to find weapons that just "feel right".

That's why in my Looter Shooter post, I suggested the idea of something like granting abilities for specific weapon type(s). The idea wasn't to rely solely upon abilities like in Diablo III, but to help provide abilities that could bolster or mix up standard combat rather than feeling more like an SOS button (like the current abilities). I believe an example was a sort of Bombardment ability for explosive-based weapons (mostly rocket/grenade launchers). One idea that just came to me was how you could actually take commonly negative stats and turn them into a positive for some abilities. For example, that Bombardment ability above could gain a larger area of effect when your weapon is less accurate (it would also deal slightly less damage over that area).

 

[rstrohkirch]

It's an interesting take on modifying guns. Almost feels more like skills though. You could get rid of that stupid supplement stat setup you get access to after beating the game and give skill points to modify how guns function.

 

[Aikouka]

It's an interesting take on modifying guns. Almost feels more like skills though. You could get rid of that stupid supplement stat setup you get access to after beating the game and give skill points to modify how guns function.

Well, you're not wrong. I mean... they are essentially "gun skills". You could even give them their own upgrade system. The ARPG Last Epoch actually does this with its skills as each skill has a talent grid that lets you customize the ability with different passive or active effects. Although, I do want to be clear that I never intended for these abilities to be constantly used. The idea was for them to be more like Overwatch where using your weaponry is still the most common form of attack, but abilities are active fairly often (e.g. 4-15 second cooldown). I imagined that these could help in a few ways...

1. Reducing dependence on specific gun attributes.
   The idea here isn't to make the attributes worthless, but more or less to make it so abilities can help to make up for a gun that may be worse in some ways. For example, if you get a great gun but it has a horrible scope, you could lean more on abilities to help make up for that.
2. Reducing the repetitive nature of combat.
   One of the problems that mechanisms like slag and bullet sponginess introduced was that combat generally devolved into a lot of holding down LMB for a while until the enemy dropped. (To be fair, slag meant you'd have to switch ever so often.) Essentially, you get more stuff to press in combat.
3. Allow for weapons to be tailored to specific situations.
   This is something that would depend heavily upon abilities, but if weapons had a good array of both AoE and direct damage abilities, you could spec specific weapon types for certain roles

Another idea came to mind just now... you could even build a system where characters gain some sort of ability/power/bonus based upon NPC allegiance/tutelage. For example, if you could work with Mr. Torgue to gain an ability where all rounds fired have a bonus explosive charge for a certain number of seconds. You might even be able to create a fun mix of the two systems where specific NPCs teach specific weapon proficiencies (e.g. Mr. Torgue teaches Rocket/Grenade Launchers). I kind of like how that tries to keep things in universe more than feeling like a tacked-on system.

 

[DigDog]

jesus christ guys, just play a proper shooter.

Borderlands is a game about:
1. colorful loot
2. comedy characters

it's not a serious shooter by any stretch of the imagination. When you need to hit a dozen headshots on an enemy that will simply not move from his cover-but-head-poking-out-spot, then what you got isn't a shooter.

Now, B3 doesn't have fun characters, the guns are atrocious by Borderlands standards, it takes nearly a minute to launch, it crashes to desktop, i'm not gonna waste more time on the thing, because i got proper shooters to play.

im sorry i cannot stop.

90% of borderlands is being in the face of an enemy, shooting it with your shotgun in the face, waiting for the shotgun to reload WHILE THE ENEMY IN MELEE RANGE SHOOTS YOu, and the shooting it again.

There is no challenge. There is no need for tactics, for movement, for weapon selection. You just .. wait. And you also casually shoot some time - with weapons that spread like a peacock's tail - vaguely towards the enemy, while you wait, but this ain't quake.

 

[zinfamous]

jesus christ guys, just play a proper shooter.

Borderlands is a game about:
1. colorful loot
2. comedy characters

it's not a serious shooter by any stretch of the imagination. When you need to hit a dozen headshots on an enemy that will simply not move from his cover-but-head-poking-out-spot, then what you got isn't a shooter.

Now, B3 doesn't have fun characters, the guns are atrocious by Borderlands standards, it takes nearly a minute to launch, it crashes to desktop, i'm not gonna waste more time on the thing, because i got proper shooters to play.

im sorry i cannot stop.

90% of borderlands is being in the face of an enemy, shooting it with your shotgun in the face, waiting for the shotgun to reload WHILE THE ENEMY IN MELEE RANGE SHOOTS YOu, and the shooting it again.

There is no challenge. There is no need for tactics, for movement, for weapon selection. You just .. wait. And you also casually shoot some time - with weapons that spread like a peacock's tail - vaguely towards the enemy, while you wait, but this ain't quake.

..which is why I hate shooters and love the BL games.

It's the closest thing to a shooter/FP perspective game that I will regularly play.

 

[Igo69]

Who said it is suppose to be like quake or doom? This is a fun shooter, it is called entertainment. It's not a professional sports game like quake or counter strike.

 

[zinfamous]

Who said it is suppose to be like quake or doom? This is a fun shooter, it is called entertainment. It's not a professional sports game like quake or counter strike.

yeah, I don't think he got the memo that's usually distributed in the forms like guns that grow legs when you toss them and they run around shooting things and grenades that sprout many grenades and bounce around in explosions of chocolate cake.

 

[DigDog]

no, no i get that. i like the guns that shoot gun. or grenades that explode into guns that shoot grenades. but that's not really what the game is about, no? it's about the comedy, the story, and maybe a little bit about the guns.
But then someone starts telling me how

borderlands really gets good after your second playthrough at max level about 70h into the game when the guns start to ACTUALLY HURT ENEMIES and HIT WHERE YOU AIm,

and this is what makes me perplexed - is this not a confession that borderlands gets good when it no longer is borderlands?

 

[rstrohkirch]

no, no i get that. i like the guns that shoot gun. or grenades that explode into guns that shoot grenades. but that's not really what the game is about, no? it's about the comedy, the story, and maybe a little bit about the guns.
But then someone starts telling me how

borderlands really gets good after your second playthrough at max level about 70h into the game when the guns start to ACTUALLY HURT ENEMIES and HIT WHERE YOU AIm,

and this is what makes me perplexed - is this not a confession that borderlands gets good when it no longer is borderlands?

It's a looter first and everything else second. That means no matter if you're playing through the story or at end game you are RNG gun loot. You'd probably like the Division more.

 

[zinfamous]

no, no i get that. i like the guns that shoot gun. or grenades that explode into guns that shoot grenades. but that's not really what the game is about, no? it's about the comedy, the story, and maybe a little bit about the guns.
But then someone starts telling me how

borderlands really gets good after your second playthrough at max level about 70h into the game when the guns start to ACTUALLY HURT ENEMIES and HIT WHERE YOU AIm,

and this is what makes me perplexed - is this not a confession that borderlands gets good when it no longer is borderlands?

well, it is based on build-based skills--not player point-and-aim skills as much.

so, I mean...yeah. all the cool things start happening when you are deep into a build and all your cool skills start procking with weird gear mechanics. That's kinda the thing you need to subscribe to in order to enjoy it.

I agree that the early game could use a bit more oomf--some toons take many many levels to start being fun (BL1 didn't really seem to have this problem as much as the sequels). and guns that don't do anything early on..yeah, there's a lot of junk, but also some guns that you might find early on that will survive up to 10 player levels and kick ass. There are a few of these out there for a normal playthrough (I keep a level 16 Roison's Thorns--basically the BL3 version of BL2's Unkempt Harold; but it procs both fire and corrosive...so awesomer), which I used for all of my toons from about level 16 to 30. It's crazy how easy mode that gun is through those early levels. Everything else is mostly garbage compared to it (a max level version isn't that great at end game, but still pretty good). ..but how awesome that gun is brings on another point about the really good guns which I know you understand--they each have specific mechanics that need to be understood and properly deployed to be effective--range of effectiveness is a big one. the Roison's Thorns (like DPUH) has a medium-to-short range, where you want all the pellet spread to hit as much of the target as possible. ANd it's kind floaty and slow, so you need to adjust how you fire and aim for it. Same with guns like Conference Call and Flakker. Both are really, really, really great; but gimmicky to the point that you need to be disciplined pro to deploy them properly. ...and with Flakker and Roisons (anything with splash elemental damage), you can very easily murder yourself in one shot. ...all part of the fun!

The charging mechanic with Maliwan guns in BL3 though...I really really hate that.

Unfortunately, yes: you have to run through multiple playthroughs to actually max out a character and start appreciating all of the different build synergies. I think this sort of thing is why it is generally preferred by the AARPG types more than the diehard shooter types.

this also means that you end up with parts of the game that aren't as good as other parts, if using the same build. ...like mobbing vs bossing. There are great builds specific for mobbing, and those for bossing. A couple maybe that are really quite good at both, but maybe not perfect. Because of how the skill system works. You may be abel to tear through mobs because you have massive richochet where your crits are creating multliples of many more bullets that each individually proc multiple effects on everything, including explosions, and you feel quite satisfied wrecking face. ....but then you end up with a single-target boss with few adds, and limitted hit boxes, where much of that awesomeness is defeated and you suddenly feel totally gutless. It sorta runs with the territory. ...I think it's also why some players don't have as much fun all the time, because maybe they aren't appreciating these issues?


Also, it's just hard to deny the fun of getting bonuses from setting yourself on fire or electrocuting yourself to pump out vastly more damage, like with end game Amara (or anyone that loved playing Krieg in BL2)

 

[Ajay]

Aaargghhh! Takedown at the Guardian Breach seems impossible! I tried it at Mayhem 1, ded, ded, ded. Did some other stuff to get better weapons and shields, etc. Then I tried it at Mayhem 2 ded, ded, add unlimited heath an ammo cheat, ded (blows up). Finally, got sick of it and just wanted to see how it end, MrAntiFun mod with one hit kill, no reload (now at lvl 60), ded (blows up). I was trying to light up all three crystals neared to the end (where 2 0f them are on floating 'islands'), only trying to kill enemies that actually meleed me, two down, one to go - boom and reload; I have no idea how to move faster. This sucks ass , from what I've read, no one has beat it on Mayhem 10 w/o cheats. I can't get past Mayhem 2. Okay, end of my boo hoo story.

 

[ondma]

Aaargghhh! Takedown at the Guardian Breach seems impossible! I tried it at Mayhem 1, ded, ded, ded. Did some other stuff to get better weapons and shields, etc. Then I tried it at Mayhem 2 ded, ded, add unlimited heath an ammo cheat, ded (blows up). Finally, got sick of it and just wanted to see how it end, MrAntiFun mod with one hit kill, no reload (now at lvl 60), ded (blows up). I was trying to light up all three crystals neared to the end (where 2 0f them are on floating 'islands'), only trying to kill enemies that actually meleed me, two down, one to go - boom and reload; I have no idea how to move faster. This sucks ass , from what I've read, no one has beat it on Mayhem 10 w/o cheats. I can't get past Mayhem 2. Okay, end of my boo hoo story.

Yea, I agree. Just another piece of evidence that Gearbox does in fact hate its customers. I had a good set of M10 weapons, decreased the difficulty to M1, and was actually able to survive to the point where you have to activate the three statues to open the gates, but it seemed impossible doing it solo (they must hate solo players even more). I gave it up too, especially since I hear there is a lot of platforming later in the takedown, which I also hate with a passion.

 

[DigDog]

we will never know. i ran into a CTD error which occurs every time when loading a specific area, which is where the game saved. launch game - crash - repeat.
i lost my patience and uninstalled it.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Yea, I agree. Just another piece of evidence that Gearbox does in fact hate its customers. I had a good set of M10 weapons, decreased the difficulty to M1, and was actually able to survive to the point where you have to activate the three statues to open the gates, but it seemed impossible doing it solo (they must hate solo players even more).

But wasn't BL2 UVHM OP10 the same?

It was nigh on impossible to solo the raid bosses unless specific gear was used. The way I look at it, BL3 Mayhem 10 is pretty much the same. And as it was with BL2, you don't have to play on the highest OP level to enjoy the game, unless you're looking for the ultimate challenge.

 

[ondma]

But wasn't BL2 UVHM OP10 the same?

It was nigh on impossible to solo the raid bosses unless specific gear was used. The way I look at it, BL3 Mayhem 10 is pretty much the same. And as it was with BL2, you don't have to play on the highest OP level to enjoy the game, unless you're looking for the ultimate challenge.

So? They have penalized solo players in all the games, not just BL3? I would agree with that.
The point remains that solo players pay just as much for the game as anyone else, so why should the game be designed to penalize them?

 

[Magic Carpet]

So? They have penalized solo players in all the games, not just BL3? I would agree with that.
The point remains that solo players pay just as much for the game as anyone else, so why should the game be designed to penalize them?

In a way yes, the game is heavily geared towards the cooperative gameplay. I play solo on TVHM without any mayhem levels applied to avoid all the unnecessary aggravation and it's been fun so far. The DLCs released so far have been better than the game itself, in my own opinion. The only problem with this game, is lack of testing and prioritization of the newer content over existing tweaking / bug fixing. Should be much better in a year or so. Look at it as a long term investment.

If you are too frustrated, play with the online editor maybe. The game must be fun for you.

 

[ondma]

In a way yes, the game is heavily geared towards the cooperative gameplay. I play solo on TVHM without any mayhem levels applied to avoid all the unnecessary aggravation and it's been fun so far. The DLCs released so far have been better than the game itself, in my own opinion. The only problem with this game, is lack of testing and prioritization of the newer content over existing tweaking / bug fixing. Should be much better in a year or so. Look at it as a long term investment.

If you are too frustrated, play with the online editor maybe. The game must be fun for you.

I agree, DLC 1 and 2 were excellent, and far better than the main campaign. The third DLC is good, but not up to the first 2 IMO. I also agree about the testing prior to release. Mayhem 2.0 was the best example. After 5 minutes of play it was obvious that enemies in any higher mayhem levels were bullet sponges and the content was terribly unbalanced. I now play in mayhem 4, and find the game playable without too much frustration.

Dont get me wrong, it is my favorite game these days. I dont really use cheats except for one that increases backpack size, since there are so many legendary drops.

 

[zinfamous]

In a way yes, the game is heavily geared towards the cooperative gameplay. I play solo on TVHM without any mayhem levels applied to avoid all the unnecessary aggravation and it's been fun so far. The DLCs released so far have been better than the game itself, in my own opinion. The only problem with this game, is lack of testing and prioritization of the newer content over existing tweaking / bug fixing. Should be much better in a year or so. Look at it as a long term investment.

If you are too frustrated, play with the online editor maybe. The game must be fun for you.

as a 99% solo player in all BL games, I agree. I don't mind the focus being on balancing towards co-op play, as that is a big part of these games, but even the end game stuff has never been made impossible for solo players....just very very difficult at times (or not; depending on cheesy, sometimes broken builds and gear. but whatever--to me that's a reward for playing around with the mechanics to make solo farming possible)

So I don't really care how difficult OP 8 (or now 10?) got to be with BL2 and whatever Mayhem 10 is now, it's not really something that you have to do.

I haven't logged back in since DLC3, level cap, Mayhem 2.0, point-2 or whatever the fix would call it, but maybe soon. I really liked DLC2 map and story. ...not sure about DLC1. It had good gear, but the map was just bland, typical BL stuff (not the worst thing for me, just felt like a longer version of that whole Killavolt side quest)

 

[ondma]

Looter shooters are generally grindy. Most allow you to use whatever weapon setup until end game and then once end game starts, viable weapons are narrowed down. BL3 isn't really different in that regard. You find an end game build that you want to try, you look up what weapons/items and stats needed, you look up drop tables for those items and you go farm. BL3 at least as a pretty decent and dedicated drop table for most of its uniques making them easier to farm. Something like Division 2 that has build outs that mostly aren't unique items but regular items with specific stat combos is much more grindy. Because they are just generic world drops that you got lucky with. It's like playing a grindy ARPG.

You are correct, I guess. However, BL3 just seems unbalanced between the number of legendary drops and the ones that are actually useful. In previous games, it was exciting to get a legendary drop, because they were quite rare, and usually very powerful. In BL3, legendaries drop like flies, but only a very few of them are useful at higher mayhem levels. On top of having to get the right weapon, you also have to farm for good anointments.