Does Christianity support the theory of evolution?

[LAUST]

Another question I have.. why do Christians hate Muslems so bad? Please only reply with serious answers. I have seriously always wanted to know what the big beef is.

 

[Eli]

Knowledge and beliefs are not one in the same. Beliefs should be the result of an individuals reasoning out of the knowledge he has, but unfortunately, it seems that most of the time a persons beliefs are merely the result of the memorization of someone else?s beliefs (be it a parent, a professor, a pastor, a scientist, etc), and not the thinking through of the knowledge that that specific individual has.

That makes no sense. Our knowledge has always come from other man. Everybody is born knowledgeless. Where else do you learn something, if it is not from a parent, professor, pastor, scientist, etc? It has to come from somewhere.

I believe everyone will have to give an account of their life to God, and quite frankly, trying to blame someone else for your beliefs will not fly, not when you know better.

eh.. That's sillyness. I've never said that I "blame" someone else for my beliefs, I have no problem with my beliefs, and neither does God.

I think God is happy that I am questioning my faith. It just gives him another chance to prove my ignorance wrong.

lol.. man, the stuff you're talking about doesen't even matter..... if you are a good person, then you are a good person. It doesen't matter what you believe.

I had a lengthy conversation with my Dad the other day, and on the topic of other religions.. he basically said that all Muslims are devilspawn and they will all go to hell.

Needless to say, I had some very serious problems with a statement like that. I wanted to reach over and slap him and say "WAKE UP."

Considering my previous statements on this page:

?When you state something as fact, I can agree and believe it's a fact, disagree and believe it's your opinion, believe it's partially true, or place it in the to be considered possible pile. I'm sure any thinking person can do the same thing with what I say, and I expect them to do so without me having to explain to them that just because I believe something is true, that doesn't necessarily make it so.
After all, it's up to each individual to decide for themselves what they will and will not believe, because, what is "indeed proven" to one person is not "indeed proven" to the next. That is reality.?

?I don't involve myself in these debates because I like being scoffed at and mocked, NOBODY DOES, I involve myself because I want to learn, and I want to educate. If my beliefs are based on lies, I WANT TO KNOW, which is why I would prefer if people would provide links to support their beliefs. That way I can look into the situation for myself, and decide for myself whether their point is a valid one. Any idea that currently exists had to originate from someone, or something, and I am better able to make a personal decision as to the validity of the idea if I know who, what, when, where, and why, if at all possible.?

I am going to assume that you were referring specifically to this statement:

?Whether 6,000 years or 6 billion years, both are, as it were, theories. I am willing to trust that God knows what he is talking about (being as He created everything), and you are willing to trust that men know better than God.?

You didn't answer my question. You kind of skirt it, but you didn't answer it. What makes you right? What makes what you say anymore than your opinion? How do you know you're right? How can you blindly follow somthing without even thinking about it? I mean, really thinking about it.. logically.

lol....... so you're saying that everytime someone says "x ten thousand, million, billion years..." ... you just completely blow it off as being nonsense? How? Why? Do you claim to be more knowledgable than the scientists that came up with it in the first place?

I do not understand how you can claim something as being true when you do not really even understand it in the first place(I am not saying that I do either), but I believe that they know what they are talking about.

God did not write a research paper on the age of the Earth. He makes simple statements, and you claim to know the age of the Earth based on his statements?

What makes you so sure the statements are 100% meant to be taken as literal?

Sorry, but if you simply ignore all of our knowledge, you are simply blind and you do not even deserve to use a computer because as far as you're concerned it shouldn't exist, since science is a bunch of bunk.

It's so convienent to pick and chose what you want to believe that comes out of the scientific world, eh?

 

[alkemyst]

Out of any Disney/Epcot ride that commented (esp the Energy Pavillion) I not once heard the Earth was 6,000 years old .... not once.

Most of the attractions did comment that the events they described happened millions + years ago if applicable.

Å

 

[UglyCasanova]

Just curious petrek, but what is the point of the rest of the universe?

Also, does your sn come from that little dinosaur on The Land Before Time?

 

[petrek]

I said:

?Knowledge and beliefs are not one in the same. Beliefs should be the result of an individuals reasoning out of the knowledge he has, but unfortunately, it seems that most of the time a persons beliefs are merely the result of the memorization of someone else?s beliefs (be it a parent, a professor, a pastor, a scientist, etc), and not the thinking through of the knowledge that that specific individual has.?

You responded with:

?That makes no sense. Our knowledge has always come from other man. Everybody is born knowledgeless. Where else do you learn something, if it is not from a parent, professor, pastor, scientist, etc? It has to come from somewhere.?

This, is the point I was making. I grew up being taught and believing full heartedly in the theory (or as I saw it growing up, the fact) of Evolution. However, when I got older, I thought if Evolution is so obvious and there is so much indisputable evidence for it, then realistically no one should be able to argue effectively against it, so I figured I would look more closely at the issue myself so that I could better explain it to others and stop them from believing in that ridiculous book called the Bible (which claimed to be the Word of an All Powerful Creator God) and prevent them from wasting their life trying to follow it.

Because there was no doubt in my mind that I would be able to prove without a shadow of a doubt that Evolution was completely true, I went into my search with a completely open mind as I was not afraid of what I might discover because I ?knew? that Evolution would win out as the only logical conclusion based on the facts we have available. Based on everything I was taught as true growing up, how could it not??

As is clearly the case, the opposite happened. I realized the evidence that existed pointed to the existence of a Creator, and that that Creator was the God of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus, even though I am still aware of the theory of Evolution, the evidence associated with it, and the fact that the majority of people believe in it, I choose to believe in Creation.

The personal research I did, the reasoning out of the knowledge I gained, and the knowledge I continue to acquire since making the choice to accept Christ as my Savior and trust in the Bible as His Word, only strengthens my faith in Him.

eh.. That's sillyness. I've never said that I "blame" someone else for my beliefs, I have no problem with my beliefs, and neither does God.

I think God is happy that I am questioning my faith. It just gives him another chance to prove my ignorance wrong.

lol.. man, the stuff you're talking about doesen't even matter..... if you are a good person, then you are a good person. It doesen't matter what you believe.

I had a lengthy conversation with my Dad the other day, and on the topic of other religions.. he basically said that all Muslims are devilspawn and they will all go to hell.

Needless to say, I had some very serious problems with a statement like that. I wanted to reach over and slap him and say "WAKE UP."

Here is what God says on those topics.


?I and my Father are one.? KJV John 10:30

?Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in they name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.? KJV Matthew 7:21-23

?The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.? KJV Jeremiah 17:9-10

?The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. KJV Psalm 14:1-3. Also Psalm 53:1-3, Romans 3:10-12, Matthew 19:17, and Mark 10:18

?But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;?? KJV Isaiah 64:6

?For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:? Romans 3:23-24

??for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.? Matthew 9:13. Also Luke 5:32

?There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.? Proverbs 14:12. Also Proverbs 16:25

?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.? John 14:6

You didn't answer my question. You kind of skirt it, but you didn't answer it. What makes you right? What makes what you say anymore than your opinion? How do you know you're right? How can you blindly follow somthing without even thinking about it? I mean, really thinking about it.. logically.

Actually, I did answer your question?a personal choice.

What makes what anyone says more than their opinion? A personal choice on the part of an individual is what changes what someone else says, into a personal belief.

What determines whether someone else is right (is telling the truth)? A personal choice on the part of an individual based on the strength of the evidence is what determines whether or not what someone else says is true.

How do I know what I believe is true? I base my beliefs on what I currently know, so as far as I?m aware, they are true. Like I?ve said before, if you or anyone else can provide a valid, logical argument that contradicts what I believe, I'm more than happy to entertain the notion, and just as in the prior case about mountains suddenly appearing on their own accord, if what I believe is not supported by the known facts, I?ll happily change my belief to correspond with the known facts.

I believe 2+2=4. I believe that to be an indisputable fact.

Link

I believe that a day in Genesis 1 is a literal day. I believe that to be an indisputable fact.

Link

Just because you disagree with what I believe does not mean that I don?t know why I believe what I believe, nor does the fact that I am not the best at expressing what I believe (English was not my strong suit in School) mean that I don?t understand why I believe what I believe. I believe what I believe because the evidence that I have seen, reasonably, and logically supports those beliefs.

There are extremely intelligent and knowledgeable people that are Christians, and there are extremely intelligent and knowledgeable people that are non-Christians. There are mentally disabled people with very little knowledge that are Christians, and there are mentally disabled people with very little knowledge that are not Christians. Christians come from all races, all backgrounds, have varying degrees of intelligence, and varying degrees of schooling, because Christianity is ultimately about Pride. People reject Christ not because there is a lack of evidence to support what the Bible claims, but because they refuse to admit they need a Savior.

Christ said, ?I am not come to call the righteous (those who think they are good), but sinners (those who know they are evil) to repentance ? Luke 5:32. The born-again Christian knows that ?The Christian is not a good man. He is a vile wretch who has been saved by the grace of God? Lloyd-Jones, Banner, p. 11.

lol....... so you're saying that everytime someone says "x ten thousand, million, billion years..." ... you just completely blow it off as being nonsense? How? Why? Do you claim to be more knowledgable than the scientists that came up with it in the first place?

You give Scientists far more credit than they deserve. They are people too, and if I may, just because someone is an Evolutionist does not mean he agrees with everything any other Evolutionist says, not all Evolutionary scientists agree on everything, and in fact they tend to disagree on a lot of things.

Scientific Journals would be pretty drab if they were filled with page after page of the same exact theoretic conjecture. There is page after page of theory because there is disagreement on the conclusions that can be drawn from mixing the fundamentals of the theories in play, with the assumed, and or acknowledged facts.

Believing something is true because it is repeated over and over and over again is known as brain washing. I know how scientists come up with those dates, and the knowledge that those dates are based on assumed facts not in evidence (facts that can neither be proven nor disproven by man), means as far as present day reality is concerned, they can?t be used to prove the Bible is lying in regards to the age of the earth.

I do not understand how you can claim something as being true when you do not really even understand it in the first place(I am not saying that I do either), but I believe that they know what they are talking about.

I don?t understand how you can claim that I don?t understand something just because you yourself don?t understand it.

God did not write a research paper on the age of the Earth. He makes simple statements, and you claim to know the age of the Earth based on his statements?

I believe God used simple statements so that even the simple minded could understand the Truth contained in the Bible. Simple doctrines don?t prevent the more intelligent from expanding on them, but complex doctrines prevent the simple minded from understanding them. Thus, I believe God used simple statements so that individuals of varying intelligences could understand what He was saying.

I?m not claiming to know the age of the earth as stated in the Bible because He uses simple statements, I?m claiming to know the age of the earth as stated in the Bible because those simple statements address the doctrine of the age of the earth. It?s because God took the time to give the lineages, and the ages associated with those individuals that I am able to use simple, basic, logic to determine for myself the age of the earth according to His Word.

What makes you so sure the statements are 100% meant to be taken as literal?

If I can not take them as literal statements, but must take them as figurative, then by all accounts, they are rendered meaningless. How can I possibly take a figurative statement (any statement in the Bible if I were to believe the Bible is not to be taken literally) and compare it to a literal statement (statements related to science, history, etc. which are known (believed) to be true, such as 2+2=4) with any hope of coming to a realistic conclusion on the validity of the subject or idea involved, I can?t. It would be wholly absurd of me to expect that any meaningful outcome could be achieved by comparing something that is figurative (false) with something that is literal (true). Thus, in order to determine whether or not what the Bible says is true, I must first take what the Bible says as literal.

Once I determine, based on a literal approach to what the Bible says, what God meant (to the best of my abilities). I am then able to compare and contrast those conclusions I have drawn with other conclusions I have drawn (from my years of public schooling, my discussions with friends, etc.) and make an informed decision as to whether or not what the Bible states on a certain issue is realistic. And I?ve learned over the years that God never lies, I may think He?s wrong because of my ignorance on the subject which He is addressing, but after all the evidence is in, His doctrine proves itself to be True.

Sorry, but if you simply ignore all of our knowledge, you are simply blind and you do not even deserve to use a computer because as far as you're concerned it shouldn't exist, since science is a bunch of bunk.

Pseudoscience is bunk, science is not.


Scientific fact ? Dinosaurs existed.

Pseudoscientific fact ? Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.

Scientific fact ? There is variation within a kind (dog, elephant, bird) of animal.

Pseudoscientific fact ? Variation within a kind of animal proves that all animals evolved from the same thing.

It's so convienent to pick and chose what you want to believe that comes out of the scientific world, eh?

You make it sound like I?m the only one who picks and chooses what I am going to believe based on the strength of the evidence provided. We all do it. That is reality.

Dave

 

[petrek]

Just curious petrek, but what is the point of the rest of the universe?

At this point in time I would say that the point of the rest of the Universe is for God's pleasure, and for ours.

Also, does your sn come from that little dinosaur on The Land Before Time?

No.

Dave

 

[Eli]

Some interesting points, some I'll respond to later.

I don?t understand how you can claim that I don?t understand something just because you yourself don?t understand it.

I'm not. I'm saying you don't understand it because you do not believe what people more knowledgable than you believe.

Wow.. Just wow.

I can say the same thing to you, you put way too much faith in the Bible.. a book. A BOOK! A book that has been translated and rewritten about a dozen too many times for my tastes.

If you really believe that Christianty is the only valid religion, I am sorry. It's simply not possible.

When you understand why you don't believe in my God, you will understand why I don't believe in yours.

 

[TekDemon]

Eli, it's time to let the crazy man believe what he wants to believe =P

Of course you know, if Dinosaurs were really around say, 5000 years ago, that means those crazy Chinese people must have driven them to extinction, damn the evidence otherwise!

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: petrek

This, is the point I was making. I grew up being taught and believing full heartedly in the theory (or as I saw it growing up, the fact) of Evolution. However, when I got older, I thought if Evolution is so obvious and there is so much indisputable evidence for it, [snip]

Evolution being obvious and there also being 'so much' evidence are mutually exclusive. Evolution happens on long time table....minor changes at a time. Sometime it's not so obvious that species B came from species A along the lines.

What naysayers try to make the uneducated believe is that scientists think man was born from a monkey one day or that on day some creature sprouted wings and took to the skies.

Regardless of that you say that is not good enough but you put your faith in a book that could have been merely trumped up in a pipe induced writing session by a few guys that were good at making a 'sale'. This are all the hypocracies that the 'religious' don't see themselves doing.

Because there was no doubt in my mind that I would be able to prove without a shadow of a doubt that Evolution was completely true, I went into my search with a completely open mind as I was not afraid of what I might discover because I ?knew? that Evolution would win out as the only logical conclusion based on the facts we have available. Based on everything I was taught as true growing up, how could it not??

Again your open mind and ability to research, let alone understand what you uncover tend to have logically been absurd based on your previous points.....and why do you always take like 2-3 weeks to respond? Are you secretly hoping to have the last word or something....you know Inquisitors did that...unfortunately they had to kill the other party to ensure this.

As is clearly the case, the opposite happened. I realized the evidence that existed pointed to the existence of a Creator, and that that Creator was the God of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again a book that relies solely on faith in it's main character. By your own logic shouldn't it be extremely easy to prove God exists and extremely hard to come to any other conclusion?

The personal research I did, the reasoning out of the knowledge I gained, and the knowledge I continue to acquire since making the choice to accept Christ as my Savior and trust in the Bible as His Word, only strengthens my faith in Him.

Not only does evolution not exist, but your God is the only God and also the right one to believe in too.

eh.. That's sillyness. I've never said that I "blame" someone else for my beliefs, I have no problem with my beliefs, and neither does God.

More than likely if he does exist, he has written you off long long ago.

I think God is happy that I am questioning my faith. It just gives him another chance to prove my ignorance wrong.

God doesn't interfere....he is definitely not going to prove anything to you. Unless you count a busload of christians rolling to their deaths ...this is a sad story don't get me wrong...but if God could/would control events I think he could have done something about it. When I have asked others (religious-types) about it, I get the 'it's a message we just don't understand' or 'he moves in mysterious ways', etc....

Here is what God says on those topics.

Bible verses are great for everyone has a counterverse that can be used against it in the same way.

The whole God = Jesus I don't understand. Saying I am just like my father is commonplace....however if I were my own Father/same entity would I call to myself and talk to me? That doesn't make sense.

How do I know what I believe is true? I base my beliefs on what I currently know, so as far as I?m aware, they are true. Like I?ve said before, if you or anyone else can provide a valid, logical argument that contradicts what I believe, I'm more than happy to entertain the notion, and just as in the prior case about mountains suddenly appearing on their own accord, if what I believe is not supported by the known facts, I?ll happily change my belief to correspond with the known facts.

This is where you have failed....that is blind faith....there are TONS of arguements to contradict any one specific event I bet you can bring up...yet like so many you would say 'what about this and this and this?' or 'somehow your facts are flawed'.

You give Scientists far more credit than they deserve. They are people too, and if I may, just because someone is an Evolutionist does not mean he agrees with everything any other Evolutionist says, not all Evolutionary scientists agree on everything, and in fact they tend to disagree on a lot of things.

Hmmm there are SOME things they disagree on, and ALOT of things they agree. Again this is typical ignorance to discredit the scientific community. The same way some say a religious scientist must have the deebil! in him.

Disney which millions of people see yearly uses these timelines of tens of thousands, millions, and billions of years. If they are so wrong don't you think the little Christian high school function yearly should not happen? Night of Joy should be spent praying for Disney to be saved and see the light.

Believing something is true because it is repeated over and over and over again is known as brain washing. I know how scientists come up with those dates, and the knowledge that those dates are based on assumed facts not in evidence (facts that can neither be proven nor disproven by man), means as far as present day reality is concerned, they can?t be used to prove the Bible is lying in regards to the age of the earth.

My what a good little TROLL you are, if the above is true you are even more brainwashed. However I will tell you what when you become a scientist by DEGREE and EXPERIENCE, you have to develop your own PROOFS on much of what you will research. Hate to tell you this, but when I analyze something on my own I can tell what compounds make up a solution, I can tell what set of formulas work to come to a repeatable and stable result, and I can look at physiology of a creature and another creature and see what is the same and what is different and what may have changed. Brain-washing doesn't exist in the scientific community for very long. Sure you will have the geeks that follow a 'leader' and repeat like parrots everything they say....there are FAR FAR more of those in the religious world and BRAIN-WASHING was started there.

Number one way to get followers that will almost be zombie like in their mission ignoring any evidence or obstacles that show them otherwise: At day 1 in their lives and throughout, teach them only what you want them to believe....shelter them from all other knowledge....group them with a lot of like-minded/like-taught children, constantly tell them people will try to lie to them and that people in general have all fallen for tricks of the deebil! and SATaN! himself....when they become adults they take on a handle of petrik and babble incessantly...even telling others they came to their own conclusions as an ADULT.....

If I can not take them as literal statements, but must take them as figurative, then by all accounts, they are rendered meaningless. How can I possibly take a figurative statement (any statement in the Bible if I were to believe the Bible is not to be taken literally) and compare it to a literal statement (statements related to science, history, etc. which are known (believed) to be true, such as 2+2=4) with any hope of coming to a realistic conclusion on the validity of the subject or idea involved, I can?t. It would be wholly absurd of me to expect that any meaningful outcome could be achieved by comparing something that is figurative (false) with something that is literal (true). Thus, in order to determine whether or not what the Bible says is true, I must first take what the Bible says as literal.

Hate to tell you this but just about any book, bible included if you take everything literally you may not end up with the conclusion the writer(s) wanted. The Bible is full of figurative speech as well as literal...it's not just one book, but a collection of them.

Pseudoscience is bunk, science is not.

Scientific fact ? Dinosaurs existed.

Pseudoscientific fact ? Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.

Scientific fact ? There is variation within a kind (dog, elephant, bird) of animal.

Pseudoscientific fact ? Variation within a kind of animal proves that all animals evolved from the same thing.

Even if there weren't errors above in the PF about evolving from the same thing, what authority are you? What kinds of education have you had in science. Many people think they understand it because they can follow along in Popular Science magazine or whatever....but it's like Woodworking or Welding, you can read it, say I can do that too, but yet even following the directions the finished project is nothing like that one in the book.

Science is the same thing. The problem you don't realize (or do but wish to ignore) is that science is more an art of proving yourself wrong to prove you are right, than saying you are right because this worked. There is a long period of trials and tribulations to get from an idea in science to a proof or theory. Many things sound good, work out much of the time, only to fail right when you are thinking you figured something out. Scientist don't say "Hey that chemical reagent was BLASHPHEMOUS!" It must be the fault of that one chemical why it doesn't work, not that my logic was screwed up!

[/quote]

belief in the strength of reality in your world unfortunately is fairy tale theatre for most of the rest of the modernized world.

You do realize that if you sat in with a group of the very educated religous they'd more than likely tell you to shut up and let them talk about such matters you fail at proving you points with weak arguements and statements with a ton of holes in them....

See you in 2-3 weeks probably when you think up replies.

Å

 

[petrek]

Alkemyst, you included some of Eli's statements as if they were mine. Nonetheless, I get it, you think I'm an ignorant fool with absurd beliefs. Anyone can review the previous posts and recognize why I'm justified in not wasting any time responding to you.

Dave

 

[alkemyst]

well if you didn't spew on and on quoting and requoting it may be easier to just capture your's....

However, I do not think your beliefs are absurd, I think your methods of deduction and justifications are absurd.

Plus you do not seem to grasp the way science actually does work, nor understand what theologists truly believe. You sort of make a mish-mosh of what appears as a series of web clippings.

Perhaps if you stayed in a more narrow focus to deliver what you believe instead of trying to nail in every head of christianity and science in each post, everyone here would be more accepting.

You seem to say we are absolutely wrong and you are absolutely right.

Fact is no matter what anyone says hear despite our trying to reasonably debate with you, you are steadfast in your beliefs, will offer no substantial proof when asked, and then deny our proof as rubbish.

I suggest Moody Bible College as a teacher for you. You have been successfully brain-washed and can now teach the next generation the same.

Å

 

[petrek]

In response to Eli's above post.

I'm not. I'm saying you don't understand it because you do not believe what people more knowledgable than you believe.

But as I pointed out above, people who are equally as knowledgeable as those who you refer to as more knowledgeable, also believe what I believe.

I can say the same thing to you, you put way too much faith in the Bible.. a book. A BOOK! A book that has been translated and rewritten about a dozen too many times for my tastes.

That all depends on who's version of the facts you accept. Taking a serious look at the issue for yourself is the only way you'll be able to come to a personal conclusion on the subject.

If you really believe that Christianty is the only valid religion, I am sorry. It's simply not possible.

Of course, your entitled to your opinion.

When you understand why you don't believe in my God, you will understand why I don't believe in yours.

Who is your God??

I look forward to your responses, and I hope you can avoid any extraneous commentary that isn't directly connected to the counterpoint you are making. Your opinion on my intelligence, etc. isn't going to cause me to change my mind on any topic. Logical, straight forward, valid points will.

Thanks
Dave

 

[petrek]

Fact is no matter what anyone says hear despite our trying to reasonably debate with you, you are steadfast in your beliefs, will offer no substantial proof when asked, and then deny our proof as rubbish.

I'll let the previous posts in which I have asked you point blank questions be the judge of that.

Dave

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: petrek
In response to Eli's above post.

I'm not. I'm saying you don't understand it because you do not believe what people more knowledgable than you believe.

But as I pointed out above, people who are equally as knowledgeable as those who you refer to as more knowledgeable, also believe what I believe.

I can say the same thing to you, you put way too much faith in the Bible.. a book. A BOOK! A book that has been translated and rewritten about a dozen too many times for my tastes.

That all depends on who's version of the facts you accept. Taking a serious look at the issue for yourself is the only way you'll be able to come to a personal conclusion on the subject.

If you really believe that Christianty is the only valid religion, I am sorry. It's simply not possible.

Of course, your entitled to your opinion.

When you understand why you don't believe in my God, you will understand why I don't believe in yours.

Who is your God??

I look forward to your responses, and I hope you can avoid any extraneous commentary that isn't directly connected to the counterpoint you are making. Your opinion on my intelligence, etc. isn't going to cause me to change my mind on any topic. Logical, straight forward, valid points will.

Thanks
Dave

My God is the same as your God, except my God isn't malicious, angry, spiteful...

The point of that statement was that.. by arguing with you, I am not saying that I don't believe in God.. I'm saying that I don't believe most of the things you talk about even matter.

I'll say it again.. If you are a good person, you are a good person. It does not matter what you believe.

Again, if you think Christianty is the only valid religion, you are quite frankly deluded. It's not possible. While there are a lot of Christians, there are a lot more of people from other religions, and the idea that they all go burn in hell is quite laughable. What about all the different sects of Christians? Which ones are damned, which ones aren't? It's just stupid.......

Think about it from their perspective. For the Muslim that is as hard core(for lack of a better term) as you, do you think it is any different for them when they die, than it will be for you?

No, of course not.

 

[zener]

I was raised as an evangelical believer who grew up in a predominately white, conservative small town. I was born asking questions.
Two things I have learned about people and religion:
1) People change slowly
2) religion changes slower, so as far as evolution goes, religion should not reach its full evolutionary form anytime soon!!

I have my faith but am very careful to always include a healthy dose of doubt and respect and listen to other's opinions. I used to believe that the Bible was the inerrant Word of God but have to admit that because of the abundance of religious texts not included in the biblical canon, today's Bible is sadly lacking. If one looks into the history of the biblical canon, one will find that there was a select few people who organized the Bible into today's form. And if you are able to research other texts, you will begin to see the inconsistancies in the Bible and understand why. As far as translation, even scholars, if they are honest, admit that translation involves a lot of contexual history which is difficult to completely understand which undermines a full complete understanding of the biblical world. I can recommend some reading by a man who honestly researched the Bible's historicity. I think it would be a good start if read with an open, objective mind. The worst people in the world are dogmatic and unthinking or regurgitate what they have heard, which I believe is a sad thing, because we were given an incredible mind with which to wonder, explore, ask questions and seek truth.
Who cares how old the earth is!! JUst keep asking good questions!!
My mom always used to say that if the devil couldn't keep ya out of church, he would bend ya overbackwards in church!!

 

[petrek]

My God is the same as your God, except my God isn't malicious, angry, spiteful...

Does your god have a text from which I can learn about him??

The point of that statement was that.. by arguing with you, I am not saying that I don't believe in God.. I'm saying that I don't believe most of the things you talk about even matter.

I'll say it again.. If you are a good person, you are a good person. It does not matter what you believe.

I'll just point you back to what God said (the above quotes). What I think doesn't matter one iota because I will not judge anyone, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will, therefore what He says does matter...if you care about your eternal destiny.

Again, if you think Christianty is the only valid religion, you are quite frankly deluded. It's not possible. While there are a lot of Christians, there are a lot more of people from other religions, and the idea that they all go burn in hell is quite laughable. What about all the different sects of Christians? Which ones are damned, which ones aren't? It's just stupid.......

Those who accept Christ as their Savior (according to the Scriptures) will be Saved. Christianity is the only religion where what a person does in this life (being good, doing "good works") is irrelevant as far as where they will spend eternity is concerned. Christ paid the penalty for all sins on the Cross, and all one need do is believe in Him and they shall have eternal life. Link

Think about it from their perspective. For the Muslim that is as hard core(for lack of a better term) as you, do you think it is any different for them when they die, than it will be for you?

No, of course not.

Think about it from realities perspective, yes of course. Islam came about in the 6th century A.D. and started out by copying from the Bible. The best forgeries closely resemble the real thing.

Dave