Does everyone have a right to sex (serious replies only please)

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Sex is just about as basic a human need as food and shelter. You don't need ample amount of research (which there is) on the almost necessity of it. And the negative physical and psychological affects because of the lack of it, especially it is over an extended period of time. This has been known all through the history of mankind.

But it is also increasingly merit based. Some people don't have the looks, or personality. Some are weird. Some are just nasty. But when it comes to right, the liberal order does not discriminate based on any of those. Here is Ross Douthat in a thoughtful and thought provoking piece (as is almost always the case with his writings)

"because like other forms of neoliberal deregulation the sexual revolution created new winners and losers, new hierarchies to replace the old ones, privileging the beautiful and rich and socially adept in new ways and relegating others to new forms of loneliness and frustration."

The piece has so many interesting points. But to take the last one...when prostitution / sex work becomes legal (which is a matter of when only), it is almost inevitable that there would be demands that the society subsidize the access to it for those who are otherwise unable to afford it. Same goes for tech, the virtual sex, the robots and all. Considering how we as a society define rights, it is hard to argue against such a right on the face of it.

"and at a certain point, without anyone formally debating the idea of a right to sex, right-thinking people will simply come to agree that some such right exists, and that it makes sense to look to some combination of changed laws, new technologies and evolved mores to fulfill it.

Whether sex workers and sex robots can actually deliver real fulfillment is another matter. But that they will eventually be asked to do it, in service to a redistributive goal that for now still seems creepy or misogynist or radical, feels pretty much inevitable."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,519
136
Sex is just about as basic a human need as food and shelter. You don't need ample amount of research (which there is) on the almost necessity of it. And the negative physical and psychological affects because of the lack of it, especially it is over an extended period of time. This has been known all through the history of mankind.

But it is also increasingly merit based. Some people don't have the looks, or personality. Some are weird. Some are just nasty. But when it comes to right, the liberal order does not discriminate based on any of those. Here is Ross Douthat in a thoughtful and thought provoking piece (as is almost always the case with his writings)

"because like other forms of neoliberal deregulation the sexual revolution created new winners and losers, new hierarchies to replace the old ones, privileging the beautiful and rich and socially adept in new ways and relegating others to new forms of loneliness and frustration."

The piece has so many interesting points. But to take the last one...when prostitution / sex work becomes legal (which is a matter of when only), it is almost inevitable that there would be demands that the society subsidize the access to it for those who are otherwise unable to afford it. Same goes for tech, the virtual sex, the robots and all. Considering how we as a society define rights, it is hard to argue against such a right on the face of it.

"and at a certain point, without anyone formally debating the idea of a right to sex, right-thinking people will simply come to agree that some such right exists, and that it makes sense to look to some combination of changed laws, new technologies and evolved mores to fulfill it.

Whether sex workers and sex robots can actually deliver real fulfillment is another matter. But that they will eventually be asked to do it, in service to a redistributive goal that for now still seems creepy or misogynist or radical, feels pretty much inevitable."

There is not a right to sex and it is definitely not as basic a human need as food and shelter as evidenced by the large numbers of people in the world who go without it. Additionally, there are a number of places in the world where sex work is legal and there are no demands that society subsidize access to it there. If he wants to argue why that would magically change he's welcome to but instead he just assumes it.

I like Ross Douthat generally but this piece was very poorly thought out.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
No. Absolutely not. If you can't get somebody to fuck you that's not society's fault.

Should it be legal to acquire with money in a fully regulated framework? Yes.

How about those who don’t have the money, just like those who don’t have the resources to housing on their own. Do we say, it’s not society’s fault?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
No. Absolutely not. If you can't get somebody to fuck you that's not society's fault.

Should it be legal to acquire with money in a fully regulated framework? Yes.

Then why if you can't afford food or medical care is it suddenly society's fault?

Oh wait we already know the answer to that question, progressives don't actually expect to personally pay the costs associated with helping the poor except in a very minimal fashion as they expect the rich to pay for it all. If sex were a right instead they might have to give a handjob themselves as there wouldn't be enough rich people around to do the job and we all know progressives don't like being around the poors and self-segregate themselves and their kids from them whenever possible.
 
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Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
There is not a right to sex and it is definitely not as basic a human need as food and shelter as evidenced by the large numbers of people in the world who go without it.

A large number of people throughout the world go without shelter too. And have been since the dawn of mankind. But it does have negative effects on the society and the individual. Lack of sex is a serious issue, no two ways about it. So question is, what do we do about it as a society? There are winners and losers in this, just like as there are in anything else - money, etc
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Again I would request folks to read the entire piece first. I know its length is probably beyond the average attention span these days and it does use difficult words too. But you can try.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
A large number of people throughout the world go without shelter too. And have been since the dawn of mankind. But it does have negative effects on the society and the individual. Lack of sex is a serious issue, no two ways about it. So question is, what do we do about it as a society? There are winners and losers in this, just like as there are in anything else - money, etc

Progressives are already proposing guaranteed employment for all. Just rename it to "guaranteed (hand) jobs for all" and you can kill two birds with one stone and maybe eliminate welfare while you're at it.

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/08/6090...tes-want-to-guarantee-a-job-to-every-american
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,700
25,033
136
No. OP you'll have to actually work to get someone to sleep with you. Doesn't matter what you incel buddies tell you.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Well if your asking Sure! when you changing the laws?

Right after the left comes up with some way to justify why the poors have a moral claim to others wallets but others don't have a moral claim to their sexual services in return since that might be the most economically valuable service they possess. It seems if we have the moral right to demand work before giving welfare, those receiving the welfare don't have the right to dictate the type or format of work so long as it's not putting them directly in harms way.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,057
10,236
136
How about those who don’t have the money, just like those who don’t have the resources to housing on their own. Do we say, it’s not society’s fault?

Getting laid does not require money. Getting laid is not a requirement for one's survival. Getting laid is not a requirement for one's survival in a modern society. End of argument.

The article seems to be written by someone who doesn't want to argue a position as one they explicitly support but rather assume the positions of people and then frame the straw man's argument in a way that maybe suits the author's views. The narrative seems to run as follows when I attempt to read between the lines: "I sympathize with incels. Our liberal society wants to provide everything else for them, why not sex". The author is a coward not to just make a point and stick by it, instead they've written a lot of deniable drivel should anyone attempt to call them out on it.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,651
12,774
146
Right after the left comes up with some way to justify why the poors have a moral claim to others wallets but others don't have a moral claim to their sexual services in return since that might be the most economically valuable service they possess. It seems if we have the moral right to demand work before giving welfare, those receiving the welfare don't have the right to dictate the type or format of work so long as it's not putting them directly in harms way.
Don't be ridiculous, there's a huge difference between dragging the .1% to task to pay their fair share, and forcing people into sexual acts because of some ill-conceived 'right' to sex.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,443
7,059
136
Why do Americans sponsor so many visas for foreigners?

Because they want sex and they are unable to get it at home, so they go overseas to find it and then want to bring their partner back home.

It's the same for Europe and most of the world.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,570
146
Right after the left comes up with some way to justify why the poors have a moral claim to others wallets but others don't have a moral claim to their sexual services in return since that might be the most economically valuable service they possess. It seems if we have the moral right to demand work before giving welfare, those receiving the welfare don't have the right to dictate the type or format of work so long as it's not putting them directly in harms way.

The ultra wealthy, through their business and corporations which define their wealth, benefit from a vastly greater amount of public/government infrastructure that do the poor and middle class (roads to deliver their shitty chinese-made goods to shitty big box stores/safety and clean resource regulations that make their products more attractive to consumers and keep their factories operating, international trade treaties that make their products globally competitive and vastly more wealthy, and on and on) so yeah: the public has a right to the vast majority of their wealth which is and can only ever be acquired at the public's expense.

Basically, they certainly didn't "build that" in a vacuum.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Right after the left comes up with some way to justify why the poors have a moral claim to others wallets but others don't have a moral claim to their sexual services in return since that might be the most economically valuable service they possess. It seems if we have the moral right to demand work before giving welfare, those receiving the welfare don't have the right to dictate the type or format of work so long as it's not putting them directly in harms way.

So prostitute the poor?
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
I like where the OP says serious replies only as if "Does everyone have a right to sex" was a serious question.
 
Reactions: Blackjack200

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I like where the OP says serious replies only as if "Does everyone have a right to sex" was a serious question.

Why? The progressives can't claim "collective action problem" like they normally do.
 

MavericK96

Member
Mar 21, 2009
59
40
101
No. Most people have hands, you can do the work yourself if you need release.

There is an argument for human-to-human contact in general being a necessity, but you don't have a "right" to it if you have bad hygiene or are generally just a shithead, and can't get people to cuddle with you.

I am for legalizing prostitution, assuming it is heavily controlled and safe for the workers (and clients).
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,848
8,311
136
food, water, air, they are required to live. Sex? Come on...

The former insufficient is an emergency, sex is no emergency.

If you had a "right to sex," you could use that as an excuse to rape. Nope.
 
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