StormRider
Diamond Member
- Mar 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: Estrella
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: Estrella
Originally posted by: StormRider
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Basically, you can't prove or disprove the existence of God. There is a very powerful theorem in Logic Theory by Godel(?) that kind of says that no matter your system of beliefs (the things you accept as true -- axioms) you can always construct a sentence where you cannot prove or disprove the truth of the sentence. I took this to be a mathematical way of saying "math/logic/science can never explain everything".
I wouldn't use any of those statements to hold up a bridge or diagnose a patient.
Can I ask what level of math courses you have taken? Have you've taken more advance math courses (senior level or graduate level) in set theory, logic and abstract algebra for example?
I was an electrical engineering major so I've taken the basic stuff like Calculus, Differential Equations, Partial Differential Equations, Complex Variables, Operational Mathematics (Laplace, Fourier Transforms), and Linear Algebra. But I liked math a lot so I also took Real Analysis, Fractals and Chaos Theory, Abstract Algebra, Point Set Topology, Euclidean and Non-Euclidean Geometry, Numerical Analysis, Probability, Statistics, Introductory Combinatorics, Number Theory, Logic, Differential Geometry, and Discrete Math etc. I've also taken graduate level courses in Analysis, Differential Equations, and some others I've forgotten.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I sometimes see people who might have taken a Calculus course or two and think they understand all of mathematics and logic and proclaim that we shouldn't believe anything unless we can prove it and that everything can be explained by science and logic.
But if you just take some more deeper math courses you will encounter a mathematical proof that says there will always be mathematical statements that cannot be proved nor disproved.
Also, you would soon realize that we have something called axioms in math. From these axioms we prove other mathematical statements. But these axioms were never proven to be true -- we just assume them to be true because they are so self-evident. As I mentioned earlier, there is a mathematical statement that says "parallel lines cannot cross". Back in those days, people thought this statement could be proven true from other axioms. But it turned out it couldn't be proven true or false. So, one branch of mathematics assumed it to be true (Euclidean Geometry) and another branch (Non-Euclidean Geometry) assumed it to be false. And both mathematical systems have proven to be very useful in engineering and science (designing bridges etc).
But I digress. Math (and Science which uses math as it's foundation) has something called axioms which are statements we assume to be true. This is basically the same thing as having faith that they are true.
So, people who claim to only believe in science, math, and logic aren't much different from religious people in the sense that the very basic thing we believe in (Axioms or the existence of God) cannot be proven and are assumed to be true in our belief system.
Read the rest of the thread; we already went over this. Did you take all your other non-required courses post-bac?(just curious)
P.S. Math Major(Senior)
Yes, I took the non-required math courses post-bac during my graduate schools days (getting a MS in EE) where I lingered too long taking more math and computer science courses.
After getting my MSEE I tried getting a PHD in applied math but failed and I finally got a job during the last days of the dot com boom. I must admit I was having trouble in the graduate level math courses. I pretty much got easy A's in the undergrad math courses but I struggled in the grad level math courses. I'm hoping that part of the reason was because I was kind of sad during that time (I felt I was being held back in life by having to help out in my parent's restaurant and something else happened which made me really sad in life). But who knows? Maybe I just wasn't smart enough to be at the PHD level....