Does God exist to you.

[KIAman]

Im basing my logic on what we know, not what we don't know. People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.
I didn't make any what-ifs up. You did, to make your own point about making what-ifs.

 

[Samwise]

I feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

 

[ilyria]

I'm agnostic. =)

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.

I don't think that anyone is going to argue that.

 

[chibchakan]

NO

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.

I don't think that anyone is going to argue that.

I disagree. The concept of the afterlife i.e. where people go after they die has changed over time. The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot. Babies that died without the chance to accept God or whomever go into limbo. Do they now go straight to heaven or do they not? Many branches of christianity are now deemphasizing the concept of Hell. Also, many branches believe that it is not only a matter of faith in God but also the life you have led. Religious beliefs, cannon and practices change over time. It used to be that I would go to hell if I ate meat on Fridays or pork.
What happened to all those people that lived before our current concept of God was developed or evolved. Do you get into heaven under the old rules or are screwed because the new rules superceded the old rules. Would they be expelled from heaven because new rules are in place or would they be grandfathered in.

It's all fuzzy because no one knows.

Back to the fundamental question.

Does God exist?
We will all find out either way.
Just don't wake me up on Sunday mornings ok? thanks.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.

I don't think that anyone is going to argue that.

I disagree. The concept of the afterlife i.e. where people go after they die has changed over time. The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot. Babies that died without the chance to accept God or whomever go into limbo. Do they now go straight to heaven or do they not? Many branches of christianity are now deemphasizing the concept of Hell. Also, many branches believe that it is not only a matter of faith in God but also the life you have led. Religious beliefs, cannon and practices change over time. It used to be that I would go to hell if I ate meat on Fridays or pork.
What happened to all those people that lived before our current concept of God was developed or evolved. Do you get into heaven under the old rules or are screwed because the new rules superceded the old rules. Would they be expelled from heaven because new rules are in place or would they be grandfathered in.

It's all fuzzy because no one knows.

Back to the fundamental question.

Does God exist?
We will all find out either way.
Just don't wake me up on Sunday mornings ok? thanks.

I think you missed the point and got it at the same time. Religion teaches people what to believe, and looking for easy answers to the most difficult questions, many people readily accept it. It is very appeasing to think that one will live forever, but no evidence has been presented. People will go on believing whatever it is they want to believe in because it gets them by each day, it gives them an answer. None of it is supported by anything, and many people see that. Creating an illusion may be comforting, and the sad truth is ignorance is bliss, but for me truth is even better.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have their own benefits when they do. In the end, does it really matter if one believed in God or not? Everyone will die, that is for sure, but IF there is God and heaven out there, it's not going to hurt those who believe in God, at the same time, IF there wasn't a heaven or a God, it STILL wont hurt the people who believe in Him, since they will be dead anyways.
So for people who DO believe in God, it is a win situation either way, whether God is real or not.

On the other hand, for people who do NOT believe in God, IF he is not real, then in the end they are seriously screwed, but IF there is no God and Heaven then you are in the same boat as everyone who do believe in all sorts of whetever.

So, my conclusion without any sort of irrelavent arguments about history and scientific laws or whatnot, I would prefer believing in God. The score is better in their favor in the end.

Good-luck to the rest of you.

as someone already said, pascals wager. very weak.

selfish reasons to believe in god? if i were god i'd kick you to the curb for believing that way. it also assumes that there is only one god and that god is the one you believe in. it assumes theres only one religion to choose from. add the rest and you can choose wrong to boot. either way, its a silly reason to believe in something because your scared.

it also assumes that your god is petty, and that if you've lived a good life yet did not believe in the magic man in the sky he'll kick you to the curb. pretty sad really.

feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

i'll pray for you too, as you believe in the wrong god. my god is real, your one is a work of fiction that you have wasted your life believing. my god is vengeful, he will not take your mistaken belief lightly. you pretend to speak for god and know what he believes and wants, yet you know nothing, you are simply arrogant.

 

[KIAman]

Omg, this whole time people have said that my argument is Pascal's wager, I just looked it up and its true. It is pascal's wager. Hmm gj.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Samwise
I feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

This is probably the best post in this thread.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Samwise
I feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

This is probably the best post in this thread.

And yours was probably the worst post in this thread.

:Q

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Samwise
I feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

This is probably the best post in this thread.

And yours was probably the worst post in this thread.

:Q

Nope, that honor shall go to you.

:Q

 

[iwearnosox]

Is there a starbucks in heaven?

 

[honz]

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.

I don't think that anyone is going to argue that.

I disagree. The concept of the afterlife i.e. where people go after they die has changed over time. The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot. Babies that died without the chance to accept God or whomever go into limbo. Do they now go straight to heaven or do they not? Many branches of christianity are now deemphasizing the concept of Hell. Also, many branches believe that it is not only a matter of faith in God but also the life you have led. Religious beliefs, cannon and practices change over time. It used to be that I would go to hell if I ate meat on Fridays or pork.
What happened to all those people that lived before our current concept of God was developed or evolved. Do you get into heaven under the old rules or are screwed because the new rules superceded the old rules. Would they be expelled from heaven because new rules are in place or would they be grandfathered in.

It's all fuzzy because no one knows.

Back to the fundamental question.

Does God exist?
We will all find out either way.
Just don't wake me up on Sunday mornings ok? thanks.

I think you missed the point and got it at the same time. Religion teaches people what to believe, and looking for easy answers to the most difficult questions, many people readily accept it. It is very appeasing to think that one will live forever, but no evidence has been presented. People will go on believing whatever it is they want to believe in because it gets them by each day, it gives them an answer. None of it is supported by anything, and many people see that. Creating an illusion may be comforting, and the sad truth is ignorance is bliss, but for me truth is even better.

woot. totally agree with you. and btw the link to jupiters gases, WTF??

what all of you who 'believe' (I put that in quotes, because there are many forms of it) don't realize, is how ludacris you sound. haha, it kinda goes with the "Blue smurfs from the north pole" earlier in this thread. Neither is provable, nor is it disprovable. However, the chances and likelyhood of it being true? slim to none.

 

[Rio Rebel]

The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot

The only thing "arcane" is your uninformed assumptions of what the Catholic church teaches.

It's amazing that so many people base so many arguments on what the Catholic church taught in the Middle Ages. Some of you are the brightest and best that the IT field has to offer, and are deeply educated in advanced physics, mathematics, and the hard sciences. But you speak about the Catholic church with the same confidence, yet being utterly and completely uninformed.

To make some of the statements that are made here would be akin to me saying "The field of Medicine is such a crock - come on, any idiot knows leeches don't cure blood diseases." Yet people here make the same kind of statements when they make accusations based on the practice of indulgences, or the Inquisition, or centuries-old religious doctrine.

Next time, criticize them about child molesting. It may be stereotyping, but at least it's timely.

 

[Rio Rebel]

what all of you who 'believe' (I put that in quotes, because there are many forms of it) don't realize, is how ludacris you sound. haha

Just in case anyone missed this little ironic jewel...

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: honz

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have a clear understanding on where they go after death, because of what their respective religion taught them. Also on the other side, people who don't believe in God have only evidence to support that once we die, that is it.

I don't think that anyone is going to argue that.

I disagree. The concept of the afterlife i.e. where people go after they die has changed over time. The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot. Babies that died without the chance to accept God or whomever go into limbo. Do they now go straight to heaven or do they not? Many branches of christianity are now deemphasizing the concept of Hell. Also, many branches believe that it is not only a matter of faith in God but also the life you have led. Religious beliefs, cannon and practices change over time. It used to be that I would go to hell if I ate meat on Fridays or pork.
What happened to all those people that lived before our current concept of God was developed or evolved. Do you get into heaven under the old rules or are screwed because the new rules superceded the old rules. Would they be expelled from heaven because new rules are in place or would they be grandfathered in.

It's all fuzzy because no one knows.

Back to the fundamental question.

Does God exist?
We will all find out either way.
Just don't wake me up on Sunday mornings ok? thanks.

I think you missed the point and got it at the same time. Religion teaches people what to believe, and looking for easy answers to the most difficult questions, many people readily accept it. It is very appeasing to think that one will live forever, but no evidence has been presented. People will go on believing whatever it is they want to believe in because it gets them by each day, it gives them an answer. None of it is supported by anything, and many people see that. Creating an illusion may be comforting, and the sad truth is ignorance is bliss, but for me truth is even better.

woot. totally agree with you. and btw the link to jupiters gases, WTF??

what all of you who 'believe' (I put that in quotes, because there are many forms of it) don't realize, is how ludacris you sound. haha, it kinda goes with the "Blue smurfs from the north pole" earlier in this thread. Neither is provable, nor is it disprovable. However, the chances and likelyhood of it being true? slim to none.

If you can't prove or disprove it then how can you possibly predict the likelyhood of it happening? You can't, so dont try.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: KIAman
People who believe in God have their own benefits when they do. In the end, does it really matter if one believed in God or not? Everyone will die, that is for sure, but IF there is God and heaven out there, it's not going to hurt those who believe in God, at the same time, IF there wasn't a heaven or a God, it STILL wont hurt the people who believe in Him, since they will be dead anyways.
So for people who DO believe in God, it is a win situation either way, whether God is real or not.

On the other hand, for people who do NOT believe in God, IF he is not real, then in the end they are seriously screwed, but IF there is no God and Heaven then you are in the same boat as everyone who do believe in all sorts of whetever.

So, my conclusion without any sort of irrelavent arguments about history and scientific laws or whatnot, I would prefer believing in God. The score is better in their favor in the end.

Good-luck to the rest of you.

So you believe out of fear basically? You think believing alone will get you into heaven?

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
It depends on what you consider murder. Is self-defense murder? How about killing someone in a war? Hitler thought he was doing a good thing and so did millions around the world. You may think that good and bad is black and white but there is a LOT of gray in there.

Agreed, there is a lot of grey area, but not with God because he is an absolute concept/entity. The use of hitler as an example is an extreeme. I said NOT including thos who are mentally insane. If you kill somone and have a malevolent intent, then yes it is murder. If you go to war thinnking all people from Iraq are "evil", then yes it is murder. If you defend yourself while being raped, and then after the perpetraor is rendered unconcious, you shoot him... then that is murder. Killing for revenge is murder. Killing for money is murder. Killing for politics and power is murder.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
I disagree. The concept of the afterlife i.e. where people go after they die has changed over time. The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot. Babies that died without the chance to accept God or whomever go into limbo. Do they now go straight to heaven or do they not? Many branches of christianity are now deemphasizing the concept of Hell. Also, many branches believe that it is not only a matter of faith in God but also the life you have led. Religious beliefs, cannon and practices change over time. It used to be that I would go to hell if I ate meat on Fridays or pork.
What happened to all those people that lived before our current concept of God was developed or evolved. Do you get into heaven under the old rules or are screwed because the new rules superceded the old rules. Would they be expelled from heaven because new rules are in place or would they be grandfathered in.

It's all fuzzy because no one knows.

Back to the fundamental question.

Does God exist?
We will all find out either way.
Just don't wake me up on Sunday mornings ok? thanks.

Firstly, church isn't in the wodd or stone, but rather in the people. If you think that roman catholicism isnt for you thats great, but religion doen't equal spirituality doesn't equal God. You dont have to believe what other people say aobut it, decide on your own. There are littereally thousands of sects of christianity, many who say the same thing you are saying now. At any rate, I find it sad that people believe in God just so that they can get into heaven.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Samwise
I feel sorry for all of you who don't believe in God. I am praying for you every day. I guess we will all find out someday, but I hope that you will all find God sooner rather than later. If you ever feel like you are alone in this world, take heart because God loves you. Whether you believe in God or not, He believes in you and wants to help you. If you want to get to know Him better, talk to a pastor at your local church or I would be glad to help in any way I can.

This is probably the best post in this thread.

Agreed. That's love.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: KIAman
On the other hand, for people who do NOT believe in God, IF he is not real, then in the end they are seriously screwed, but IF there is no God and Heaven then you are in the same boat as everyone who do believe in all sorts of whetever.

Assuming, for the moment, that some deity exists, I cannot accept the concept that such an all powerful, all knowing entity would be so petty as to create beings of limited wisdom, insight, and perception, only to demand infinite faith from them, let alone give a rat's ass how they show it.

AFIC, religion is a waste, and the many ways it is practiced only confirms Harvey's Tuesday Theory of the Creation, which postulates that God did indeed create the heavens and the Earth in six days and rest on the seventh, but the seventh day happened to be Tuesday. Thus, all those who go face east and go prostrate on Friday, bow their heads on Saturday, or kneel on Sunday have it wrong. It's Tuesday, idiots!

The point is, it's arbitrary. Religion is not necessary to be a good, or even spiritual person. With some variation, basic concepts of good and evil have transcended societies as long as there has been recorded history. Good has its own intrinsic value, and if you analyze it, it simply makes sense as good social engineering. The Ten Commandments can be viewed as a set of rules to keep a microcosm from blowing itself apart while wandering around in the desert for a few decades. Nine of the ten are based on the Theory of Bad Vibes.

Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't hit on your buddy's old lady, or your girlfriend's old man.
Why? It causes Bad Vibes.

Take care of your parents.
Why? Because, they did it for you when you were too young to care for yourself. It's your turn to do it for them if they're too old to care for themselves. Anything else causes (you guessed it) Bad Vibes.

Remember the sabbath.
Why? Without rest, human beings burn out and get nasty, so we set up a common day of enforced rest. Otherwise you get... BV's.

That covers nine of the ten. The tenth, or rather the first, says, "I am the lord thy god. Thou shalt have no other god before me." It's the enforcer. When you're a microcosm in the middle of the desert, you're a bit shy on manpower to enforce the other nine, so the dialog goes:

Crowd: Why should we?

Moses: God said so.

Crowd: Oh sh8! Guess we better listen! :Q

 

[cmdavid]

yeah He does...

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

The Catholic church use to /still has all these arcane rules as to who can get into heaven and who cannot

The only thing "arcane" is your uninformed assumptions of what the Catholic church teaches.

It's amazing that so many people base so many arguments on what the Catholic church taught in the Middle Ages. Some of you are the brightest and best that the IT field has to offer, and are deeply educated in advanced physics, mathematics, and the hard sciences. But you speak about the Catholic church with the same confidence, yet being utterly and completely uninformed.[/i]

First, my intentions were not to critcize the Catholic Church. I believe people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe be it Zeus, Jesus or the man on the moon. I was merely trying to disagree with another poster who said that people who believe in God have a clear understanding of what happens after they die because their religion teaches them such.
My point was that beliefs and teachings change over time. Rules that govern spirituality and morals change. Ideas on the afterlife and the "path to salvation" evolve with changes in societal thoughts. I chose the Catholic church because the example demostrated my point. It used to be only the bishops and cardinals could devine the will of God or the path to salvation because the laity was ignorant ... the struggle over reconciling the trinity ... to something as mundane as eating meat on Fridays.
Rules change ... My point is since rules change, people at any point in time cannot have a clear understanding of what happens after they die simply because their religion tells them.

I am certainly not an expert in the "IT field" or in the Catholic history but I do know ideas and practices evolve. The idea of god and what god is has also evolved from mostly naturalism and polytheism to many different interpetations of monotheism and polytheism.
If it is that eventually all the religions merge into one true and correct path/God then what happened to all those people that lived before that time?

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: Harvey
The point is, it's arbitrary. Religion is not necessary to be a good, or even spiritual person. With some variation, basic concepts of good and evil have transcended societies as long as there has been recorded history. Good has its own intrinsic value, and if you analyze it, it simply makes sense as good social engineering. The Ten Commandments can be viewed as a set of rules to keep a microcosm from blowing itself apart while wandering around in the desert for a few decades. Nine of the ten are based on the Theory of Bad Vibes.

Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't hit on your buddy's old lady, or your girlfriend's old man.
Why? It causes Bad Vibes.

Take care of your parents.
Why? Because, they did it for you when you were too young to care for yourself. It's your turn to do it for them if they're too old to care for themselves. Anything else causes (you guessed it) Bad Vibes.

Sorry Harvey, Jesus already had a theory 2000 years before you. He said love your neighbor and love God. Plus love just sounds nicer than vibe... Reminds me of a crappy car.