Does God exist to you.

[Fides]

Originally posted by: yamahaXS
not personally, though since there are people who act in accordance to their "god" and their actions can effect me, then I suspose "god" does exist at some level. Do I believe there really is a god? No, not really.

I'm not getting this.. arn't you contradicting yourself? There is a God because people beleive in it, but God doesn't exist.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

So what caused God?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it has to be attributed to God. If you doubt me, look at ancient religions that are now considered fantasmical and absurd, like the clicheed Ancient Greek religion. What caused the sun to move across the sky? Apollo pulling it with his chariot.
What caused the big bang? God.

The sooner you learn to separate religion and logic, the sooner you can stop posting nonsense.

I really find it humorous the way Christians ridicule science with statements like "Oh so the universe just happened right?".

You guys seem to be stuck on the creation of the universe for the only reason God should exist. Were focusing on the begining when the end is what's important. And yes, Religion and science do get seperated at some point by faith, but faith and reason together make a powerful combination.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
For me a god doesn't exist. I see no evidence for one and my life is fine without one. We are born and later we die. We got one chance at life so might as well make it a good one.

You also have an equally great chance at death. How bout making that a good one too?

A good death? What exactly is a good death? I think I'd rather live my life looking forward to living than looking forward to an afterlife.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

God does truly exist

That pretty much answered the question. You BELIEVE that God exists.

That also pretty much answered the question..... eh???

Care to elucidate. I challenge you, prove that God doesn't exist. I would like facts and arguements, until then God exists. Eventually you will see this also, and if not then I pity you.

Umm...you're supposed to try to prove the positive, not the negative. It's your responisbility to prove that a god exists because you're making the claim. If I said Santa Claus exists I wouldn't tell you to prove me wrong, I'd be the one having to give the evidence.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
To reduce my belief on this subject to a simple paragraph or two, I'll say this (forgive the oversimplifications for readibility's sake):

I believe that "exist" is a concept that only makes sense within the framework of how we experience things. I believe that, regardless of what we *think* we mean when we say it, the concept of "exist" IMPLIES certain conditions that may or may not be the case for another type of being (or Being), despite the fact that we cannot imagine what that "existence" would be like. We cannot even conceive of what it would mean to "exist" outside of space and time. We can use mathematical formulas to demonstrate that something must be there and yet not take up space...or we can try to jam two concepts together and, by the fact that they aren't logically contradictory, say that they are "possible" and could "exist." But when it comes down to it, we can't conceive of it, and it is not really something that we can coherently discuss.

Given what I believe to be true (above), we run into some pretty serious problems with our notion of God. If you accept what I put forward in the first paragraph (in fairness, it's pretty much a paraphrase of Kant), then it makes no sense to talk about God existing "outside of time", or being "omnipresent". So now we run into trouble defining what we mean by "God". If we mean God in the same sense as the heavily Greek-influenced notion of "the sum of all perfections", then I think we are stuck in some heavy contradictions and counter-intuitive notions. If we redefine this to fit our spacio-temporal restrictions (our preconditions for experience), then I'm not sure we're still talking about God in the same sense that the layman means when he thinks of God.

Now here's the most ridiculous part: After saying all of that, I *do* believe that God exists, in some sense of "existence", and in some inexplicable way interacts with us and guides us. I believe that any true search for God's existence will lead us to the abyss, and all the hopelessness and meaninglessness that is implied by it. There is no certainty, no proof, no simple explanation that will allow us to look away from the abyss and be comforted; no real search for Truth will allow such a delusion. There is only the LEAP of faith that comes through looking honestly at the abyss and believing that Something or Someone greater than ourselves understands the meaning of it all, and wants to guide us through it to become what we are capable of being. It is a leap; it is not a step forward onto the solid marble steps of our parents' religion, and not a turning away to find some more palatable place where the chasm converges to let us hop across. It is a leap in the deepest sense of the metaphor, a leap that has no immediate visible hope of reaching a destination, or of the security of landing soldily on the other side. I would never blame or criticize a person who refuses to make the leap - it is the more rational thing to do to stay on the edge when you can't see where you might land. I chose to make the leap, and I am happier for it. But even so, I can't even help to explain why. I can't illuminate the other side for anyone else - it's our own choice to make, noone else's.

Does God exist? I don't know. But my "not knowing" comes from the man who has searched, and reached, and tried to make sense of it all, and simply admits the limits of what he has found. It is not the disinterested child's response to a question he doesn't want to answer. I can't expect everyone to come to the same conclusion, but I hope everyone understands the magnitude of the question.

Very, very interesting, and thank you for sharing your view. I am just curious, when you are saying you are happier for believing, in what way and how? Basically, how does believing affect you? And what do you think of what Buddah, Jesus and Mohammed have to say?

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: Winchester
God does truly exist. Yes I am a Christian. Yes I have seen miracles happen. Yes I believed in God way before I saw the miracles. God has always been in my life and always will and I will pray for all of you who have your eyes glazed over.

Why do you believe?
If you were born Muslim, do you think you would be christian now?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

God does truly exist

That pretty much answered the question. You BELIEVE that God exists.

That also pretty much answered the question..... eh???

Care to elucidate. I challenge you, prove that God doesn't exist. I would like facts and arguements, until then God exists. Eventually you will see this also, and if not then I pity you.

Umm...you're supposed to try to prove the positive, not the negative. It's your responisbility to prove that a god exists because you're making the claim. If I said Santa Claus exists I wouldn't tell you to prove me wrong, I'd be the one having to give the evidence.

All of the evidence that God exists is abstract. Believing in God is a personal belief, not a scientific conclusion. I believe in God, and that is my choice. God gives people the ability to choose whether or not we believe.

Believing in God is an act of faith, one that is rewarded with God's presence in your life. Nobody can or should be forced to believe in God, but they should know that there is a God in heaven.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
For me a god doesn't exist. I see no evidence for one and my life is fine without one. We are born and later we die. We got one chance at life so might as well make it a good one.

You also have an equally great chance at death. How bout making that a good one too?

A good death? What exactly is a good death? I think I'd rather live my life looking forward to living than looking forward to an afterlife.

Yes you only live once, but you also only die once too. What im interested is what you think of what happens after you die.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: Winchester
God does truly exist. Yes I am a Christian. Yes I have seen miracles happen. Yes I believed in God way before I saw the miracles. God has always been in my life and always will and I will pray for all of you who have your eyes glazed over.

Why do you believe?
If you were born Muslim, do you think you would be christian now?

Your question makes no sense to me. After you leave your parents you are free to believe as you see fit. No newborn has religon.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
For me a god doesn't exist. I see no evidence for one and my life is fine without one. We are born and later we die. We got one chance at life so might as well make it a good one.

You also have an equally great chance at death. How bout making that a good one too?

A good death? What exactly is a good death? I think I'd rather live my life looking forward to living than looking forward to an afterlife.

Yes you only live once, but you also only die once too. What im interested is what you think of what happens after you die.

I think that if you believe in God you go to heaven, if you believe in anything else, you go to hell.

 

[PCMarine]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: LandRover
Right... we all just evolved from frogs or something. And the world and everything living on it just created itself.

You got that wrong. The Universe "banged" by polarizing spacetime into a sub-particle which initiated a cascading time frame effect, and the incredible amount of energy which equalizes to zero further polarized itself by expanding into 2 different directions along a planar axis and then forming the other particles through a complex chain reaction of expansions and contractions. Why did this happen? Theory has it that spacetime is a cycle that repeats itself when the universe dies of heat death and contracts back to a single state.

But God existing out of nothing? Impossible!

And life forms started as a pre-cell membrane that formed in a pool of amino acid type molecues which had the proper amounts of compounds, pressure, and electrical charges (lightening) to create an RNA sequence capable of replicating itself. This self-replication instigated a multiplication of pre-organisms that were very unstable and kept altering their RNA per replication, creating a accelerated evolution into stable organisms. As organisms divided, consumed, and died, mutations occured in the genetic makeup which caused changes in metabolism and structure which could benefit the organism. Over milliions of years, complex chemical reactions and nervous systems became the basis of intelligence. Millions of more years human evolution split off from a pre-ape like creature that had the right circumstances to make variations in speech, and thus language was born. Language then solidified intelligence into a self-progressing medium. Art, Spirituality, Science... computers capable of making decisions... life keeps evolving... we become more efficient at controlling the environment around us, as in genetics and chemistry... learning how to transport particles to other locations instantaneously... how to manipulate the atom for energy... and we will eventually reach a point of human evolution where our knowledge and ability will be omniscient and omnipotent...

But God knowing all and creating the whole universe in 1 day by mere thought? Impossible!

Excellent post on evolution, I agree 100%.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

God does truly exist

That pretty much answered the question. You BELIEVE that God exists.

That also pretty much answered the question..... eh???

Care to elucidate. I challenge you, prove that God doesn't exist. I would like facts and arguements, until then God exists. Eventually you will see this also, and if not then I pity you.

Umm...you're supposed to try to prove the positive, not the negative. It's your responisbility to prove that a god exists because you're making the claim. If I said Santa Claus exists I wouldn't tell you to prove me wrong, I'd be the one having to give the evidence.

All of the evidence that God exists is abstract. Believing in God is a personal belief, not a scientific conclusion. I believe in God, and that is my choice. God gives people the ability to choose whether or not we believe.

Believing in God is an act of faith, one that is rewarded with God's presence in your life. Nobody can or should be forced to believe in God, but they should know that there is a God in heaven.

Abstract evidence is fine for some but don't go telling people to prove god doesn't exist when you don't have any verifiable evidence of your own.

Yes you only live once, but you also only die once too. What im interested is what you think of what happens after you die.

I believe you die and then your body starts decaying. Your thoughts cease to exist after you die because...well you're dead.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: PCMarine

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: LandRover
Right... we all just evolved from frogs or something. And the world and everything living on it just created itself.

You got that wrong. The Universe "banged" by polarizing spacetime into a sub-particle which initiated a cascading time frame effect, and the incredible amount of energy which equalizes to zero further polarized itself by expanding into 2 different directions along a planar axis and then forming the other particles through a complex chain reaction of expansions and contractions. Why did this happen? Theory has it that spacetime is a cycle that repeats itself when the universe dies of heat death and contracts back to a single state.

But God existing out of nothing? Impossible!

And life forms started as a pre-cell membrane that formed in a pool of amino acid type molecues which had the proper amounts of compounds, pressure, and electrical charges (lightening) to create an RNA sequence capable of replicating itself. This self-replication instigated a multiplication of pre-organisms that were very unstable and kept altering their RNA per replication, creating a accelerated evolution into stable organisms. As organisms divided, consumed, and died, mutations occured in the genetic makeup which caused changes in metabolism and structure which could benefit the organism. Over milliions of years, complex chemical reactions and nervous systems became the basis of intelligence. Millions of more years human evolution split off from a pre-ape like creature that had the right circumstances to make variations in speech, and thus language was born. Language then solidified intelligence into a self-progressing medium. Art, Spirituality, Science... computers capable of making decisions... life keeps evolving... we become more efficient at controlling the environment around us, as in genetics and chemistry... learning how to transport particles to other locations instantaneously... how to manipulate the atom for energy... and we will eventually reach a point of human evolution where our knowledge and ability will be omniscient and omnipotent...

But God knowing all and creating the whole universe in 1 day by mere thought? Impossible!

Excellent post on evolution, I agree 100%.

Me too. That is excellent.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Yep. I met Him on a beach in VN. We were under heavy assault and my M-16 jammed hopelessly.

I'm alive today is all the proof I need.

Not to rain on your miracle, but it sounds like a infomercial.

 

[gopunk]

hmm i thought this was going to be a poll.

anyways no.

 

[MainFramed]

yes i believe in god

 

[Tripleshot]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Is ignorance bliss? With this subject matter, is it a safer positition the non believer chooses, to lessen the impact of having to justify to oneself the posibility that there could be more to life than flesh and bone? That a mothers instinct and protection of her children is a chemical reaction, and not possibly the notion(?) that man was created in Gods image, and that the instinct of protection may in fact be a devine conotation, a plan for mankind, even a blueprint of life?

Is it safer for people to deny their spiritual self, because they do not understand it?


Or could it be that those who try to increase their spiritual growth, and open their hearts and minds to accept the lessons of love and compassion, may indeed validate the existance of God, on the same scale as to believe the sun will rise tommorow and when it sets, you can see stars in the heavens---and when we expand our chests, we breath in gases that sustain us. Do not these very things become your reality? for the believer, God is just as real. His Word is written, it is documented, it is an historical record that transcends science. To believe in God is not by its acceptance a denial of science. It may never be that science will prove the existance of God. God is proved by faith, and is revealed to those who believe by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is documented and accepted by most all the religions of the world, that Jesus Christ, Son of God in the Flesh, lived and died and was reserected as a testimony of love and redemption, and the basis for man to return to God after death in the flesh.

When you die, will your body turn to dust. It surely will. But what of your soul? Will it die as well? I believe not. I believe the soul that is in all man,which in and of itself is the man that God created (not and ape or transmutted tadpole) is in the pervue of His Grace, and when at his choosing He decides to reunite the soul with the body, He can make it happen, for it is an eternal process and is spiritual in nature. That is beyond the scope of mans understanding. But it cannot be denied just because you haven't seen it happen yet. You cannot tempt God to act in the way you want. He allows you to make free choices. In essence, He allows you enough rope to hang yourself. But He has provided a ransom for you, and you have the opurtunity to accept Him. Again the choice is yours.

For me, God is as real as the air I breath, I will not deny Him. I am happy beyond measure knowing his Love for me, and for you. It is the very foundation of life itself, the very purpose I was placed on this earth, to learn, grow, multiply, teach, love. This is no accident of some space time continuim. This life is a designed and planned part of exaltation for all the hosts of Heaven that suported and loved God in the pre existance. The very fact you can read this is suffecient proof to me that God loved you enough (and you Him) to send you to this earth to obtain a body and go through lessons of life on your journey to exaltatation. Yes, life is a journey, a Devine journey. Study the God of your choosing. Learn the Truth. It is there to be revealed to those who will but seek after it. Don't sit back and claim atheism, or agnostic, step up to the plate and justify your belief on Truth. There is no truth in athesim, just ignorance.

Is ignorance bliss?


I think not.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Fides,

My humanity, my "self" so to speak, believes in a single, loving, personal God who is the God of Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, and maybe even Buddha (I know, that doesn't exactly fit, but I think Buddha received Divine wisdom in many of his writings.) I "know" God through the teachings of my parents, and my religious colleagues and friends, so I tend to see God more from the Judeo-Christian perspective.

But my intellect will not accept the Judeo-Christian God, because I believe there are subtle contradictions in that notion. I believe God as the sum of all perfections (a very Greek notion) leads to inconsistencies with the God who revealed Himself to the Israelites. I won't go into all of them, but suffice it to say that I can't see how an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God can interact with people in the way the Jews saw Him. How could a perfect and all-powerful God change his mind? The Hebrew picture of God is one who gets angry, interacts with us, and makes decisions - even changes them - based on that interaction. How can that be reconciled with the notion that God already knows all and is all powerful? If God changes His mind, then either He was wrong in the beginning (and thus not God), or is wrong now (and thus not God).

My "faith" is a constant struggle of my intellect and my soul. It is not that my intellect contradicts my soul, as some atheists wish to propose. It is that my soul finds God, and my mind categorizes Him in familiar ways - ways taught me by my family, friends, teachers, etc. - and my intellect then rejects the inconsistencies of those categories. My soul will not let me reject God's "existence", but my intellect also won't let me put Him into boxes that I know in my heart won't reconcile. So it is a constant struggle.

On the flip side, I would submit that these people who come in so forcefully claiming of their personal knowledge of God's existence, and how they "feel sorry" for those of us without that assurance, are doing so to hide a very strong and very deep insecurity because they know in the depths of their heart that such an assurance simply isn't there.

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

No.

 

[vtqanh]

NO, as simple as that. why? how the hell should I know? he (i'm not sure if that's a he or she ) just doesn't

 

[vtqanh]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Fides,

My humanity, my "self" so to speak, believes in a single, loving, personal God who is the God of Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, and maybe even Buddha (I know, that doesn't exactly fit, but I think Buddha received Divine wisdom in many of his writings.) I "know" God through the teachings of my parents, and my religious colleagues and friends, so I tend to see God more from the Judeo-Christian perspective.

But my intellect will not accept the Judeo-Christian God, because I believe there are subtle contradictions in that notion. I believe God as the sum of all perfections (a very Greek notion) leads to inconsistencies with the God who revealed Himself to the Israelites. I won't go into all of them, but suffice it to say that I can't see how an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God can interact with people in the way the Jews saw Him. How could a perfect and all-powerful God change his mind? The Hebrew picture of God is one who gets angry, interacts with us, and makes decisions - even changes them - based on that interaction. How can that be reconciled with the notion that God already knows all and is all powerful? If God changes His mind, then either He was wrong in the beginning (and thus not God), or is wrong now (and thus not God).

My "faith" is a constant struggle of my intellect and my soul. It is not that my intellect contradicts my soul, as some atheists wish to propose. It is that my soul finds God, and my mind categorizes Him in familiar ways - ways taught me by my family, friends, teachers, etc. - and my intellect then rejects the inconsistencies of those categories. My soul will not let me reject God's "existence", but my intellect also won't let me put Him into boxes that I know in my heart won't reconcile. So it is a constant struggle.

On the flip side, I would submit that these people who come in so forcefully claiming of their personal knowledge of God's existence, and how they "feel sorry" for those of us without that assurance, are doing so to hide a very strong and very deep insecurity because they know in the depths of their heart that such an assurance simply isn't there.

Nice! Even though i don't believe in his existence, i find that your thinking is very respectable.

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Fides

Originally posted by: Winchester
God does truly exist. Yes I am a Christian. Yes I have seen miracles happen. Yes I believed in God way before I saw the miracles. God has always been in my life and always will and I will pray for all of you who have your eyes glazed over.

Why do you believe?
If you were born Muslim, do you think you would be christian now?

Your question makes no sense to me. After you leave your parents you are free to believe as you see fit. No newborn has religon.

To answer my own question, they affect you plenty. If you are born Christian in the west, and you live your whole life there, I doubt very much that you will become Buddhist (unless of course you are an extremely open minded individual, which is rare)

 

[achiral]

Click Here For Help Deciding

honestly though God does exist. it's easier to say that God doesn't exist, but that doesn't make you correct

 

[Fides]

Originally posted by: PCMarine

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: LandRover
Right... we all just evolved from frogs or something. And the world and everything living on it just created itself.

You got that wrong. The Universe "banged" by polarizing spacetime into a sub-particle which initiated a cascading time frame effect, and the incredible amount of energy which equalizes to zero further polarized itself by expanding into 2 different directions along a planar axis and then forming the other particles through a complex chain reaction of expansions and contractions. Why did this happen? Theory has it that spacetime is a cycle that repeats itself when the universe dies of heat death and contracts back to a single state.

But God existing out of nothing? Impossible!

And life forms started as a pre-cell membrane that formed in a pool of amino acid type molecues which had the proper amounts of compounds, pressure, and electrical charges (lightening) to create an RNA sequence capable of replicating itself. This self-replication instigated a multiplication of pre-organisms that were very unstable and kept altering their RNA per replication, creating a accelerated evolution into stable organisms. As organisms divided, consumed, and died, mutations occured in the genetic makeup which caused changes in metabolism and structure which could benefit the organism. Over milliions of years, complex chemical reactions and nervous systems became the basis of intelligence. Millions of more years human evolution split off from a pre-ape like creature that had the right circumstances to make variations in speech, and thus language was born. Language then solidified intelligence into a self-progressing medium. Art, Spirituality, Science... computers capable of making decisions... life keeps evolving... we become more efficient at controlling the environment around us, as in genetics and chemistry... learning how to transport particles to other locations instantaneously... how to manipulate the atom for energy... and we will eventually reach a point of human evolution where our knowledge and ability will be omniscient and omnipotent...

But God knowing all and creating the whole universe in 1 day by mere thought? Impossible!

Excellent post on evolution, I agree 100%.

I agree. It is completely impossible for God to exist if you examine this question from a purely physical standpoint. This is a metaphysical issue, so I don?t think explaining the universe in terms of reactions is going to help. Just because we can?t see something, doesn?t mean it doesn?t exist. Science is rather blind in this area and it will have to pick up a new set of eyes to be of any use.

 

[kleinesarschloch]

To answer my own question, they affect you plenty. If you are born Christian in the west, and you live your whole life there, I doubt very much that you will become Buddhist (unless of course you are an extremely open minded individual, which is rare)

or because buddhism is the trendy religion at the time... :disgust: