Does healthcare really need to be this expensive? Recent accident.

[JS80]

OP, are you incapable of doing math?

 

[The-Noid]

Hey now, we are not broke, though we do have big ugly oil rigs/tar sands as well... And don't forget potash!

I always forget about Bay Street.

My apologies to the Canadians. You guys do everything right and rightfully have a AAA rating.

Yeah for high commodity prices!

 

[KeithTalent]

My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any market forces at work in healthcare. Healthcare seems to be insulated from market forces. Prices aren't published or easy to find.

With any other service the prices are published which allow informed choice for the consumer. The market eventually settles to a price point that supports what people can usually afford to pay - the free market determines a service's "worth."

I don't see this happening in healthcare. Everything is a huge mystery.

Normal business: "We do this for $XX.XX."

Healthcare: "We do this." (Sometimes you the consumer don't even have the choice in who "we" is.)

It's an interesting point. Considering how your health care system works, it would make sense to have greater transparency and choice in what is being offered. Up here it makes sense, you get what you get, but down South I would think you could shop around. It does not work that way?

Obviously in your case it was an emergency and choice was not an option, but for less serious cases it woud make sense to me.

KT

 

[jhu]

My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any market forces at work in healthcare. Healthcare seems to be insulated from market forces. Prices aren't published or easy to find.

With any other service the prices are published which allow informed choice for the consumer. The market eventually settles to a price point that supports what people can usually afford to pay - the free market determines a service's "worth."

I don't see this happening in healthcare. Everything is a huge mystery.

Normal business: "We do this for $XX.XX."

Healthcare: "We do this." (Sometimes you the consumer don't even have the choice in who "we" is.)

Of course you have a choice. You can go without insurance and pay out of pocket. If you have insurance, you can choose to go outside of approved providers or not. In an emergency you can choose to go to hospital or risk dying where you are.

 

[preslove]

Where are these rich democracies you speak of? Last time I looked, sans Norway which has those big bad ugly oil rigs off their coasts (remember how the democrats won't let us do that?) everyone is flat broke...

Germany's doing fine. Northern Europe is doing ok. It's Greece, Spain & Italy that are causing the crisis in the EU. The problem is that Germany and France don't want to bail them out.

And all these countries pay less than half of our total per capita health expenditures.

Our private mess (you can't even call what we have a 'system') has caused runaway health cost inflation for the last several decades. Fuzzy said it best. There are no market forces acting to lower costs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

A guy I work with had a relatively routine heart surgery this year. He was in the hospital for 5 days. Total cost: $250,000.

 

[JohnnyGage]

I think the Morphine was on your brain. The bill shouldn't be anywhere near 50K. 5-6k maybe. Now if you were in the hospital for a few days I can see it. Also, like the other poster said if it is 50k, call the news for a consumer advocate 50k is just ridiculous for a 6 hr ER stay.

<----------RN.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You're paying for malpractice and the others who can't pay.

I don't know about you but I sure as fuck couldn't afford $50,000 in medical bills.

 

[nanette1985]

Hope you're feeling okay and you are healing properly.

Totally agree with your rant.

How's the bike?

 

[The-Noid]

Germany's doing fine. Northern Europe is doing ok. It's Greece, Spain & Italy that are causing the crisis in the EU. The problem is that Germany and France don't want to bail them out.

And all these countries pay less than half of our total per capita health expenditures.

Our private mess (you can't even call what we have a 'system') has caused runaway health cost inflation for the last several decades. Fuzzy said it best. There are no market forces acting to lower costs.

No they're not doing fine. France is dead. Southern Europe is dead. Belgium is dead. The Netherlands is OK but I am not an expert on their health care.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.FRAGER10:IND

Germany is doing fine on the idea they will leave the Euro. The German economy is built on cheap exports. If you think outsourcing is bad in the USA wait until you see Germany go off the Euro and move onto a hard currency. The economy will enter a depression. Germany is the biggest benefactor of the Euro and getting in bed with the poorer countries to make your currency weaker may not have been the best idea.

Watch spending explode as a percentage of GDP should Germany leave the Euro and watch unemployment skyrocket as labor arbitrage takes effect.

Canada however, doing great!

I agree with the Norwegian philosophy though, can we cover the Gulf of Mexico in state owned oil rigs to pay for healthcare? There has to be some concessions somewhere and no one will make any. We just add more regulators (380,000 as of 11/11/11).

Health care in America is the ultimate form of Socialism. Accounts receivable at Fairview (owned by the U of Minnesota) run around 32&#37; as of this year, so those who pay simply pay for those who can't. Horrible system but make everyone pay and the price goes down.

 

[Born2bwire]

So I recently had a motorcycle accident. Someone cut me off suddenly and I smashed into him and got a concussion and got knocked out.

1. The ambulance ride was 8 miles (at $80 a mile) and they billed me $1,700. It included a cheap Styrofoam neck brace thingy that they billed me $80 for and a *blanket* for $50 which they promptly threw away at the ER.

2. The 6-hour ER stay will be around $50,000. Over $10,000 an hour! My insurance (I'm self employed, buying insurance for yourself is very difficult) only pays for 60% of that, and I'm stuck paying 40%.

I'm looking at the numbers and I'm absolutely astounded. $10K / hour? Really?

Really? Are our healthcare costs really that out of whack with reality and what people can afford to pay?

Not to mention there's no reasonable way to pick healthcare based on price/performance. Prices simply aren't published or easily visible. Heh, you don't get to see the price that you're going to pay until you actually get the bill. Tell me how that makes any sense.

What are the prices after the discounts from the insurance? How much is your insurance covering? And then how much of this is also going to be covered by your auto insurance? I mean, how much are you really out of pocket here?

 

[JohnnyGage]

A guy I work with had a relatively routine heart surgery this year. He was in the hospital for 5 days. Total cost: $250,000.

Cardiothoracic surgeon, anethesiologist, phys assist/nurse prac running the heart lung machine, prob 5-7 hours in surgery, many RN's assisting and 5 day hospital stay including 2-3 days in an ICU = expensive.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Cardiothoracic surgeon, anethesiologist, phys assist/nurse prac running the heart lung machine, prob 5-7 hours in surgery, many RN's assisting and 5 day hospital stay including 2-3 days in an ICU = expensive.

No kidding...

 

[the DRIZZLE]

You aren't going to end up paying anything near 40% of $50,000. Your insurance will "negotiate" a price in the mid four figures and you will pay 40% of that.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I think the Morphine was on your brain. The bill shouldn't be anywhere near 50K. 5-6k maybe. Now if you were in the hospital for a few days I can see it. Also, like the other poster said if it is 50k, call the news for a consumer advocate 50k is just ridiculous for a 6 hr ER stay.

<----------RN.

The qoute of $50,000 was given to me by my friend who found me on the side of the road that night.

She is a RN in trauma at the exact hospital that I went to. Her colleagues and friends were the ones who were on staff that night.

We'll see.

I hope you're right that it's $6K and not $50K.

 

[Doppel]

The qoute of $50,000 was given to me by my friend who found me on the side of the road that night.

She is a RN in trauma at the exact hospital that I went to. Her colleagues and friends were the ones who were on staff that night.

We'll see.

I hope you're right that it's $6K and not $50K.

So you just made this thread up based on a road-side estimate after an accident by a friend who just saw you fly off your bike? You fvcking serious????????

 

[DaTT]

It's stories like this that make me even happier to be Canadian. Sure, our healthcare system isn't perfect, but if I was in the OP's exact position, I would have been billed $90 or so for the ambulance ride....maybe.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I asked my officer manager today to order some highlighters. I told her to just give me the receipt after it arrives and I'll reimburse her...then my co-worker told me it was going to cost $1000 per highlighter! Damn the office supply system in this county is fucked up.

 

[The-Noid]

It's stories like this that make me even happier to be Canadian. Sure, our healthcare system isn't perfect, but if I was in the OP's exact position, I would have been billed $90 or so for the ambulance ride....maybe.

It's stories like this $50k in expenses based on an estimate from a friend that makes it seem like our healthcare system is way worse than it is.

 

[Born2bwire]

The qoute of $50,000 was given to me by my friend who found me on the side of the road that night.

She is a RN in trauma at the exact hospital that I went to. Her colleagues and friends were the ones who were on staff that night.

We'll see.

I hope you're right that it's $6K and not $50K.

Jesus Christ. Will you stop with the bullshit? Come back when you can actually tell us how much is covered by your health and auto insurance and can tell us what you actually have to pay out of pocket.

For example, I had a minor surgery in Hong Kong. I couldn't get it covered by my insurance there because it was only valid for hospital care that had a waiting list of around one or two months. So I had to opt for a private practice and all told it cost me around $600. Turns out, the sawbones botched the job and I had to get the same thing done in the US. It cost slightly cheaper ($400) without insurance but with insurance I only have to pay maybe $150.

The difference between my story and yours: I actually have the bills in hand.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

What are the prices after the discounts from the insurance? How much is your insurance covering? And then how much of this is also going to be covered by your auto insurance? I mean, how much are you really out of pocket here?

That's unknown at this point. I'm just freaked out by the figures that my nurse friend gave me.

I haven't heard from my insurance yet about their "negotiated" rates. But they cover 60%. I only had liability, but I did have the uninsured motorist rider that limits at $15,000 that could help pay for my bills. Of course, I have to prove that there was even another motorist involved. Hard to do when it's a hit and run and when bikes damage much more than a typical vehicle. The other vehicle might just have a dent on it with no peices left as evidence of collision at the scene. It's just my testimony that there was someone else involved.

Not sure what out of pocket is going to be.

Nonetheless, I still find it striking the dollar figures that are thrown around. Out of pocket or not, $50K for ER and $1,700 for an ambulance ride are still mind boggling.

 

[OutHouse]

The qoute of $50,000 was given to me by my friend who found me on the side of the road that night.

She is a RN in trauma at the exact hospital that I went to. Her colleagues and friends were the ones who were on staff that night.

We'll see.

I hope you're right that it's $6K and not $50K.

fail

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

So you just made this thread up based on a road-side estimate after an accident by a friend who just saw you fly off your bike? You fvcking serious????????

The friend is a resident nurse at that hospital and *works* at the ER unit that I went to that night...

I would hardly call it an estimate.

Her words were "I thought it would be only $5-6K, but I asked my boss and he said it would be around $50K."

 

[Ns1]

pardon the obvious, but does a nurse at a hospital even see $$$ amounts?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

pardon the obvious, but does a nurse at a hospital even see $$$ amounts?

Perhaps not, but I'd imagine her boss might (that's who she asked to verify her initial estimate, which was low).

Edit: I asked her how much it would be after the accident and she said not to worry about it too much since it's only $5-6K. The next day she told me that her quote was wrong. She asked her boss to verify what she told me and found out that her estimate was way low. $50K.