Does healthcare really need to be this expensive? Recent accident.

[fuzzybabybunny]

So I recently had a motorcycle accident. Someone cut me off suddenly and I smashed into him and got a concussion and got knocked out.

1. The ambulance ride was 8 miles (at $80 a mile) and they billed me $1,700. It included a cheap Styrofoam neck brace thingy that they billed me $80 for and a *blanket* for $50 which they promptly threw away at the ER.

2. The 6-hour ER stay will be around $50,000. Over $10,000 an hour! My insurance (I'm self employed, buying insurance for yourself is very difficult) only pays for 60% of that, and I'm stuck paying 40%.

I'm looking at the numbers and I'm absolutely astounded. $10K / hour? Really?

Really? Are our healthcare costs really that out of whack with reality and what people can afford to pay?

Not to mention there's no reasonable way to pick healthcare based on price/performance. Prices simply aren't published or easily visible. Heh, you don't get to see the price that you're going to pay until you actually get the bill. Tell me how that makes any sense.

 

[BudAshes]

So I recently had a motorcycle accident. Someone cut me off suddenly and I smashed into him and got a concussion and got knocked out.

1. The ambulance ride was 8 miles (at $80 a mile) and they billed me $1,700. It included a cheap Styrofoam neck brace thingy that they billed me $80 for and a *blanket* for $50 which they promptly threw away at the ER.

2. The 6-hour ER stay will be around $50,000. Over $10,000 an hour! My insurance (I'm self employed, buying insurance for yourself is very difficult) only pays for 60% of that, and I'm stuck paying 40%.

I'm looking at the numbers and I'm absolutely astounded. $10K / hour? Really?

Really? Are our healthcare costs really that out of whack with reality and what people can afford to pay?

Not to mention there's no reasonable way to pick healthcare based on price/performance. Prices simply aren't published or easily visible. Heh, you don't get to see the price that you're going to pay until you actually get the bill. Tell me how that makes any sense.

Then no one pays the hospital so they sell the debt to agencys who pay them maybe 10% of the debt. How about just reduce the price to 10% and have people actually beable to pay for their visit?

 

[ElFenix]

my father was telling me the other day that back in the mid 80s taking me to the doctor cost $30. that's not with insurance, not a copay, nothing. just $30 cash for the doctor. copays are just about that right now. ridiculous.

 

[KeithTalent]

Good god that's insane.

KT

 

[Daedalus685]

That is insane....

I don't understand where that money goes, The EMTs probably don't see that much in a year.... (Yup, starting EMT wages seem to be about 45K in places like New york, which makes me even more crazy sad as our EMTs start closer to 60K in Ontario...)

 

[Crono]

That king of price helps fund the entire healthcare system.

Costs rise over time because advances in technology and medicine aren't cheap. We expect to live longer and better, but treatment costs time and money, and professionals need to be paid well.

There's also an entire supports system for the medical field, including 3rd party laboratories, medical billing, insurance, etc. It's a huge segment of our economy.

 

[mshan]

I would recommend doing some google research on "medical billing advocate".

e. g. http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/help-for-medical-billing-errors-advocates

You could also contact your local tv stations and see if they have a consumer advocate segment where one of their reporters is willing to go with you to hospital and ER and ask them to explain how your 6 hour stay could really cost $50,000.

 

[SludgeFactory]

So I recently had a motorcycle accident. Someone cut me off suddenly and I smashed into him and got a concussion and got knocked out.

Isn't the idiot who cut you off responsible for damage to you and your bike? What does the police report say about who's at fault?

Yes, medical costs are a joke. Way too many administrative/insurance/legal pigs at that trough, contributing *nothing* to your care.

 

[PottedMeat]

That is insane....

I don't understand where that money goes, The EMTs probably don't see that much in a year....

there's a lot of people in the middle that want their cut

 

[Ns1]

Isn't the idiot who cut you off responsible for damage to you and your bike? What does the police report say about who's at fault?

hit and run

 

[preslove]

Basically, every time Democrats have tried to implement a universal healthcare bill, the Republicans managed to kill it until Obama passed the Affordable Care Act. The ACA was originally republican alternative that they proposed to Clinton's plan the 1990's. It's going to take years before healthcare costs can be brought down, but it won't do so as well as other systems.

Every single rich democracy has a universal system that keeps costs down and leads to better health outcomes.

 

[highland145]

Yes, medical costs are a joke. Way too many administrative/insurance/legal pigs at that trough, contributing *nothing* to your care.

NPR segment said 30% of costs have to do with coding/billing.

 

[nickbits]

Last year my ambulance ride cost $800 for 20 miles or so. You're costs seem really high but im not an expert. I have had 130k in medical bills for the last year. Real money paid was about 99k. My cost was about 5k.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

my father was telling me the other day that back in the mid 80s taking me to the doctor cost $30. that's not with insurance, not a copay, nothing. just $30 cash for the doctor. copays are just about that right now. ridiculous.

Nowadays, to be fair, $30 sounds too low for a doctor's visit.

I can see paying $70 or so for a routine doctor's visit which lasts 15 minutes. Maybe 15 on the doctor's backend for paperwork. About $140/hr for the doctor. Ok. Fine.

A few months ago I went in for a herniated disk in my back. The doctor came in, saw me for 10 minutes, prescribed Advil, and billed me $250 for the privilege. Assuming she had to do 15 minutes of paperwork before and after, that's like $500/hr. To get told to take it easy and take Advil to mask the pain. For a problem that's inherently structural in nature.

WTF.

 

[Ns1]

A few months ago I went in for a herniated disk in my back. The doctor came in, saw me for 10 minutes, prescribed Advil, and billed me $250 for the privilege. Assuming she had to do 15 minutes of paperwork before and after, that's like $500/hr. To get told to take it easy and take Advil to mask the pain. For a problem that's inherently structural in nature.

You are not paying for office time, you are paying for the 8-12 years she went to school (and the corresponding 6 digit loans)


Not that I agree with what you're paying, of course, but shit aint easy for docs either

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

My wife is a trauma surgeon and thanks you for riding your motorcycle, it helps our kids go to private school.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Isn't the idiot who cut you off responsible for damage to you and your bike? What does the police report say about who's at fault?

Yes, medical costs are a joke. Way too many administrative/insurance/legal pigs at that trough, contributing *nothing* to your care.

*sigh*

I was stupid to be riding and not being 110% observant at the time.

It was like 1AM on a Friday night / Saturday morning. It was at a location where there's a very short merge onto the road I was riding on. A yield sign that many people ignore and a place where lots of other people have had accidents at due to mergers.

I was riding in the left passing lane, the lane furthest from the right merging lane. The guy merged and *immediately* merged directly into the left lane, hitting me maybe 50ft from the merge. I tried to swerve to the right lane out of his way but failed. I smashed and went flying. He left and my friend who was 5 minutes behind me found me and my bike smashed on the side of the road. It was dark and my body was laying partially in the road. I was lucky someone didn't accidentally run me over in the dark.

The guy coulda been drunk at that hour (I shouldn't have been riding considering it was a Friday night and there's more drunks).

He coulda been an illegal.

He coulda been someone with a history or no insurance.

I get screwed.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

You are not paying for office time, you are paying for the 8-12 years she went to school (and the corresponding 6 digit loans)


Not that I agree with what you're paying, of course, but shit aint easy for docs either

My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any market forces at work in healthcare. Healthcare seems to be insulated from market forces. Prices aren't published or easy to find.

With any other service the prices are published which allow informed choice for the consumer. The market eventually settles to a price point that supports what people can usually afford to pay - the free market determines a service's "worth."

I don't see this happening in healthcare. Everything is a huge mystery.

Normal business: "We do this for $XX.XX."

Healthcare: "We do this." (Sometimes you the consumer don't even have the choice in who "we" is.)

 

[Ns1]

My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any market forces at work in healthcare. Healthcare seems to be insulated from market forces. Prices aren't published or easy to find.

With any other service the prices are published which allow informed choice for the consumer. The market eventually settles to a price point that supports what people can usually afford to pay - the free market determines a service's "worth."

I don't see this happening in healthcare. Everything is a huge mystery.

Normal business: "We do this for $XX.XX."

Healthcare: "We do this." (Sometimes you the consumer don't even have the choice in who "we" is.)

No arguments here

 

[Doppel]

So I recently had a motorcycle accident. Someone cut me off suddenly and I smashed into him and got a concussion and got knocked out.

1. The ambulance ride was 8 miles (at $80 a mile) and they billed me $1,700. It included a cheap Styrofoam neck brace thingy that they billed me $80 for and a *blanket* for $50 which they promptly threw away at the ER.

2. The 6-hour ER stay will be around $50,000. Over $10,000 an hour! My insurance (I'm self employed, buying insurance for yourself is very difficult) only pays for 60% of that, and I'm stuck paying 40%.

I'm looking at the numbers and I'm absolutely astounded. $10K / hour? Really?

Really? Are our healthcare costs really that out of whack with reality and what people can afford to pay?

Not to mention there's no reasonable way to pick healthcare based on price/performance. Prices simply aren't published or easily visible. Heh, you don't get to see the price that you're going to pay until you actually get the bill. Tell me how that makes any sense.

They fvck you if you don't have insurance, reason being if you CAN pay for that you will subsidize the others who can't. Therefore instead of charging each person $12,500 for services they charge each $50k assuming three of them will just file for bankruptcy and somebody else pays the $50k.

 

[jhu]

You're paying for malpractice and the others who can't pay.

 

[The-Noid]

Basically, every time Democrats have tried to implement a universal healthcare bill, the Republicans managed to kill it until Obama passed the Affordable Care Act. The ACA was originally republican alternative that they proposed to Clinton's plan the 1990's. It's going to take years before healthcare costs can be brought down, but it won't do so as well as other systems.

Every single rich democracy has a universal system that keeps costs down and leads to better health outcomes.

Where are these rich democracies you speak of? Last time I looked, sans Norway which has those big bad ugly oil rigs off their coasts (remember how the democrats won't let us do that?) everyone is flat broke...

Oh and Canada, can't forget our neighbors on Bay Street they are doing well as long as commodity prices stay high.

 

[Daedalus685]

*sigh*

I was stupid to be riding and not being 110% observant at the time.

It was like 1AM on a Friday night / Saturday morning. It was at a location where there's a very short merge onto the road I was riding on. A yield sign that many people ignore and a place where lots of other people have had accidents at due to mergers.

I was riding in the left passing lane, the lane furthest from the right merging lane. The guy merged and *immediately* merged directly into the left lane, hitting me maybe 50ft from the merge. I tried to swerve to the right lane out of his way but failed. I smashed and went flying. He left and my friend who was 5 minutes behind me found me and my bike smashed on the side of the road. It was dark and my body was laying partially in the road. I was lucky someone didn't accidentally run me over in the dark.

The guy coulda been drunk at that hour (I shouldn't have been riding considering it was a Friday night and there's more drunks).

He coulda been an illegal.

He coulda been someone with a history or no insurance.

I get screwed.

Doesn't your auto insurance cover that? Even in Canada where health is universal my auto insurance covers health expenses. It is part of the mandated minimum insurance I can get in Ontario (minimum being up to 50k for non catastrophic rehabilitation and up to 1million for catastrophic).

 

[Red Squirrel]

One of the reasons I would never want to live in America. When I get hurt or am sick the last thing I want to worry about is how much it's going to cost me.

 

[Daedalus685]

Where are these rich democracies you speak of? Last time I looked, sans Norway which has those big bad ugly oil rigs off their coasts (remember how the democrats won't let us do that?) everyone is flat broke...

Hey now, we are not broke, though we do have big ugly oil rigs/tar sands as well... And don't forget potash!