Does Illuminati really exits?

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Such a question would have been answered way differently - with scorn and derision - only three short years ago. I give Edward Snowden credit for opening the minds of a good majority.

To the OP, read this well attributed book and then work your way backwards.

Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America
http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets.../dp/B002T45028

First, Snowden said nothing about 'illuminati'.

Second, while I think the Bush family is just disastrous in its history for the country (since GWB was CIA Director trying to stop the revelations of their wrongs, at least), my impression of that book is that its accuracy is in question, that it has unsubstantiated and dubious claims. (I own two copies actually, but haven't read it yet, just about it).

There are a lot of good, solid books about the Bushes, and we need more.

The same thing happened with Nixon - as horrible as he was for the country and the world in many ways, I ran across a book that appears inaccurate exaggerating his wrongs.

That's especially sad when we can use more people learning the accurate story.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
I do not believe there is a highly organized group conspiring to control the world. And I do not think the names that these cooky people usually bring up are the ones in control. Rockefeller, Rothschilds, etc are out of date families with limited influence in the 21st century.

But I do think there is a conscious "us vs them" mentality among the richest to control out financial system for their benefit.

Marc Faber sums it up very very well: http://youtu.be/ZeTYO5ViN9s?t=6m45s Watch from 6:45 to 9:30. It really turns a light bulb on.

This is not a conspiracy and it's not brought on by small time millionaires and ordinary businessmen. That guy down the street with the Ferrari whose worth 50 or $100m isn't in on this, he's just a pawn. It's the economists, the billionaires, and the high level executives of major companies, particularly in the financial sector who perpetuate this. It's the real players. But these guys aren't dancing around naked doing some ritual before each meeting. It's nothing like the tin foil hat morons would lead you to believe. And I do not even think these people are inherently evil. They're just getting back at the system because of a lifetime of hard word they have a sense of entitlement.
 

April_Asset

Member
Sep 22, 2014
25
0
0
I know there are a lot of secret societies that came to light over the years, but I don't know... don't know who would want to be part of such a group either.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
JMapleton, your comments about the 'movement' becoming a force in itself largely driven by the minions has a lot to it.

There are 'warriors for the wealthy' who don't think about what's good for society, but simply serve the 'interests' that reward them.

I recall in the movie 'The One Percent', a rather sloppy home movie type documentary by a son in the Johnson family of Johnson & Johnson, and while all their packages say 'a family owned company', it was pretty clear this is far from a mom and pop operation. Every once in a while their wealth advisor runs a family meeting where he updates them on how their wealth is doing.

The funny thing was, he seemed to view his role as being some sort of high priest to preach the ideology of wealth to the family, if they showed any sign of not being the stereotypical blind pursuers of wealth. When he learned of this movie being made, he took the son aside to lecture him if not quite threaten him on why the movie should not be made and he should embrace his status instead.

(This is the movie that had the normally 'liberal' billionare Warren Buffet, he of the worrying about his secretary's tax rate and wanting the rich to pay more, objected to strongly to his son's adopted daughter's giving a pretty innocuous interview to the movie that he disowned her and sent her a very nasty letter that she was not a relative.)

There is a huge amount of insulation and ideology that justifies the plutocracy.

It's not that anyone sets out like a bond villain to cause it, but it's the natural result of so much power being concentrated, creating a vicious cycle of taking even more.

A good example is how Frank Luntz, perhaps the most harmful propagandist of our time, has made a career of using scientific techniques to devise language which is good at selling policies harmful to the public - and the political operatives demand that all the politicians use these phrases exclusively (to Jon Stewart's delight when he runs clip of many politicians saying the exact same words to expose them).

Luntz doesn't seem to have any idea about the harm of what he's peddling - it's just rewarding for him.

For example, it was when a phrase that was stumbled upon that persuaded people to support getting rid of the inheritance tax was brought to Luntz, that the issue became a serious political agenda item for the first time, complete with at least one member of Congress charging his staff money as a fine if they ever used the phrase 'inheritance tax'. Just that phrase move double digits of citizens in opinion polls.

No billionare architected the political war to get rid of the inheritance tax, but when the minions started the war to get rid of it, they opened their pocketbooks to try to win it.

If you ever talk to them, 'they're the victims' in many cases. They really think they're not getting a fair deal. It is sort of a wealth delusion that happens.
 

solidstar

Member
Apr 30, 2014
62
1
66
My dad was recently included / initiated to the Freemasons. What exactly is freemason? I think I should know this from history and from reading Dan Brown novels, but I really don't, so I am accepting ignorance / innocence.

I downloaded a book called "The Secrets of Freemason" - but it talks about rituals. :$
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
If someone asks me who or what do I think is the illuminati? I answer with "all of us". Imagine walking into a room full of people and they all look at you for just a few seconds. The amount of information that is exchanged in those moments is far greater than the amount of information that is exchanged through all the conversations that take place within that room over the course of an hour.

Most people already know that most of our communication is in fact non verbal. It happens subconsciously. We dont even really know what we are telling each other. We also know that we only use a small fraction of our brains. We also know that it is at least possible for a human being to access more of our brains. We know this from people like Stephen Wiltshire. Put these three facts together and it infers something profound in relation to secret societies: What if they found a way to control the type of information that is passed from one person to another through what we call "body language"? I believe they have. To some degree, they have. Or think they are on the path of understanding it. If you study all the occult symbolism in the mainstream media, and you study the power these symbols have had throughout history, it starts to make a lot more sense. There is power here, power we do not understand. Power to control groups of people through manipulation of shared symbolism. It is a huge facet of secret societies. I actually believe we have been genetically programmed to respond to certain symbols. One of the most important is the sun symbol.



That is just one of its many forms. We have no idea what goes on "underneath the hood" in our brains when we look at that symbol. But something happens, something beyond what we can think or sense. All I am saying is that I believe it is possible to use these symbols to control the subconscious "body language" information flow between people. The importance of this cannot be overstated. These symbols are like the keys on a typewriter. And we are the paper.

Think of the human race as one single entity, one which communicates mostly subconsciously, through what we call body language. We are not unlike an ant colony in that respect. Unlike ants we are actually smart enough to realize that there could be entities out there that are so advanced that they see us as an ant colony. Well, if there was such an entity, and if they had any interest in manipulating us, then these symbols are how they would do it. Like the keys on a keyboard.

There are theories that suggest the human race is a product of advanced genetic manipulation. A generic homonid was taken from the earth thousands of years ago, and its DNA was modified. If any of that ever did happen then most likely some sort of symbolic control set was implanted in our DNA. This control set would allow the controller to manipulate huge masses of people by inputting symbols into their mass collective subconscious. The original creator could probably completely “enter” the mind of any human, to make sure that they were not stirring up dissent. The creator/controller had complete control over his worker species. Does this really sound all that farfetched? Maybe 30 years ago, but today?

At any rate, I believe this creator/controller has long since left us. But these secret societies are working on information that has been passed down since the beginning. These illuminati, if they indeed exist, really are nothing more than idiot monkeys hammering away on an unintelligible keypad. They don’t fully understand the language of this symbolic keyboard, but they know enough to get us to do basic things. Like accept so many completely bogus and absurd facets of daily life. Like banksters printing money and giving it to themselves right out in the open, without being charged with a crime. Like believing fluoride is good for your bones. Like accepting all these devastating prescription drugs and the culture that has built up around it, while simultaneously accepting this massively costly war against garden variety psychadelics (ie pot, shrooms, ayahuasca, etc). Lol its so absurd the crap we believe. But still, we are programmed to believe it is crazy to stand up and point out the absurdity of all this stupid crap we accept. That is the control they have, and it is the symbolism that gives them that control. It is crazy to accept this crap. And if you cut these symbols out of your life, you will begin to see how absurd all of it is. It is these symbols that control you on the individual level, but they work on the societal level.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
sm625, your comments are IMO delusional and greatly exaggerate the 'power of visual marks'. I guess Japan has no hope, given their flag? What is it with fluoride?
 

lynna

Junior Member
Sep 19, 2014
15
0
0
Just like aliens, mythical creatures and elemental entities, Illuminati is something that we can't really be sure of. Even though they truly exist, I don't think they'll affect our lives that much. I think they are not that powerful as they were described. If they are powerful, there is no reason for them to stay behind their veils, so it's either they are unreal or cowards.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Just like aliens, mythical creatures and elemental entities, Illuminati is something that we can't really be sure of. Even though they truly exist, I don't think they'll affect our lives that much. I think they are not that powerful as they were described. If they are powerful, there is no reason for them to stay behind their veils, so it's either they are unreal or cowards.

You don't think it's possible to be powerful and cowards both? You don't read much history or follow current events do you?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
There are no 'secret groups' like illuminati that matter to anything.

The simple explanations are all that's needed. The extreme concentrations of wealth we have, the allowing of people with most of the money to buy our elections, are all that's needed for a lot to break. It doesn't take a lot of monsters and conspiracies, just the basic conflict of interest.

Knowing that between a quarter and a half of the bills some right-wing states pass is written by the 'ALEC' group that represents corporate interests, against democracy, is all that's needed for real problems - it doesn't take some big other conspiracy among imaginary threats.

There is a Bildeberg group, a lot of wealthy people meet there and discuss issues, but it's not some hotbed of secret conspiracies.

Don't like to 'illuminati', look to the 'free trade agreements' with provisions that cripple democracy.

Those agreements allow private groups representing corporations to decide whether laws passed under democracy cost corporations money, and gives those corporations the right to get paid for those losses by the taxpayers. No appeal. That can cripple the government's ability to pass laws in the public interest. It prevents countries taking measures to protect their workers from low-wage competition and such.

Chasing crazy myths like illuminati keeps people uninformed basically.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
There are no 'secret groups' like illuminati that matter to anything.

The simple explanations are all that's needed. The extreme concentrations of wealth we have, the allowing of people with most of the money to buy our elections, are all that's needed for a lot to break. It doesn't take a lot of monsters and conspiracies, just the basic conflict of interest.

Knowing that between a quarter and a half of the bills some right-wing states pass is written by the 'ALEC' group that represents corporate interests, against democracy, is all that's needed for real problems - it doesn't take some big other conspiracy among imaginary threats.

There is a Bildeberg group, a lot of wealthy people meet there and discuss issues, but it's not some hotbed of secret conspiracies.

Don't like to 'illuminati', look to the 'free trade agreements' with provisions that cripple democracy.

Those agreements allow private groups representing corporations to decide whether laws passed under democracy cost corporations money, and gives those corporations the right to get paid for those losses by the taxpayers. No appeal. That can cripple the government's ability to pass laws in the public interest. It prevents countries taking measures to protect their workers from low-wage competition and such.

Chasing crazy myths like illuminati keeps people uninformed basically.
You might want to read a few biographies of wealthy families and historical movers and shakers. It doesn't get more bet shit crazy than that.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
You might want to read a few biographies of wealthy families and historical movers and shakers. It doesn't get more bet shit crazy than that.

You assume I haven't for some reason. I've discussed some history of plutocracy in past eras - that's a far cry from claiming an 'illuminati' or similar today.

If you or someone would like to get more info, a book such as 'Wealth and Democracy' by Kevin Phillips helps with the history.

Did you have anyone particular you're thinking of, and is there any relevance to the situation currently?
 
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