Does NASA still use 386's?

[jihe]

A long time ago I remember hearing that NASA still uses 386's because they are good against radiation from space. But that was 10 years ago. Does NASA still use the 386? Is there anywhere that still uses 386?

 

[ShintaiDK]

I know atleast pentiums have passed the radiation hardening.

The shuttles used 8086 or so, but that was simply due to obsolete systems.

Also if I recall right, you cant go below 90nm or so for space due to radiation.

 

[(sic)Klown12]

Curiosity is using a RAD750, an IBM RISC chip that runs at ~200MHz and is comparable to the consumer PowerPC 750. As far as I can find, NASA has not used x86 on any recent spacecraft or probes. And it also looks like they use a 150nm process, but nothing on if it's an absolute requirement for that type of use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750

 

[zir_blazer]

Maybe they use Silicon on Sapphire?

 

[HeavyClocker]

Interesting topic. Following

 

[Arkadrel]

A long time ago I remember hearing that NASA still uses 386's because they are good against radiation from space. But that was 10 years ago. Does NASA still use the 386? Is there anywhere that still uses 386?

reminds me of this:

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7322

http://nepp.nasa.gov/workshops/etw20...%20Results.pdf

NO processor failures observed (1,4 and 17 Mrad(Si), respectively). “17” is NOT a typo.

So, even though Llano is not RHBD, it passed the tests.

One possible explanation for Llano's high radiation resistance is the SOI process on which it is built. SOI and SOS processes have always had better radiation hardening properties than bulk-SI.

So Llano is better than "radiation hardened" RD750, used in Curiosity rover, which can withstand 1 Mrad.

Am I reading it wrong?

 

[BrightCandle]

Really depends on the project and its age. It takes so long to qualify an implementation of a safety critical Risk class 1 software/hardware project that you don't change the hardware/software unless absolutely necessary once implemented. Quite a lot of the aerospace industry buys an excess of whatever processor/boards they are using so when they fail they have replacements out for the life the of the product and project. If they don't (as in some cases here in Europe) they have to go through an enormously expensive upgrade program or pay for expensive special runs of old designs in old fabs if that is even an option.

I suspect for example the shuttle still uses old 8086 processors as that is what it was originally qualified with and that is the platform developed on. More modern projects are probably based on the radiation tested PowerPCs that BAE Systems designed the package for and tested for their capabilities under extreme conditions but there are other processors that have been qualified to Risk class 1 which as far as I know go up to about 750Mhz.

Each project is different but you don't find any 3 Ghz CPUs in space or in aircraft. Modern fighter jets use surprisingly old and slow processors as well as very strange looking custom operating systems that are truly real time as is the software running on it. You find a lot of Ada and a special cut down version of C in these systems.

 

[zebrax2]

http://www.cpushack.com/space-craft-cpu.html

It's mind boggling how large the gap of computing capabilities of processors currently used here on earth and those that are used on space.

 

[Fox5]

I've seen pictures of laptops being used on the International Space Station, and I doubt it was using a rad hard processor...

 

[(sic)Klown12]

I've seen pictures of laptops being used on the International Space Station, and I doubt it was using a rad hard processor...

The ISS is in LEO so it does not require the use of a hardened processor. It's only when you get in higher orbits that the radiation level increase to a level that normal hardware can't handle reliably.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Also laptops on the ISS is not deemed critical

 

[Exophase]

For projects being made for flight now? No. There are a lot of better alternatives. Something like a 386 might be more resistant to radiation just by virtue of having huge transistors but newer products are going to be built with more radiation tolerant technologies (redundancy + error correction at all levels) and built on a more radiation hardened process (like Silicon on Sapphire).

If you need as little CPU power as what a 386 gives then you can probably make due with a soft core on a rad-tolerant FPGA.

I've seen pictures of laptops being used on the International Space Station, and I doubt it was using a rad hard processor...

Nope, they're normal if somewhat rugged laptops. If the environment wasn't radiation safe for a laptop they wouldn't have crew members walking around there

 

[ShintaiDK]

Also note that Intel gives a free license to US government to make radiation hardened CPUs of commercial products.

Sandia Labs for example makes them.

Itaniums for example are also build in with different RAD techniques in commercial products.

 

[Morawka]

radiation exposure to chips is not something i think nasa worries about. Any of the computing stuff is gonna be surrounded by 2 inch's of Lead casing.

 

[PottedMeat]

radiation exposure to chips is not something i think nasa worries about. Any of the computing stuff is gonna be surrounded by 2 inch's of Lead casing.

you want to send that top end cpu up with a couple kilos of lead or would you rather send a weaker cpu and a load of instrumentation?

 

[Sheep221]

Also note that Intel gives a free license to US government to make radiation hardened CPUs of commercial products.

Sandia Labs for example makes them.

Itaniums for example are also build in with different RAD techniques in commercial products.

WTB radiation proof 4770k

 

[Exophase]

radiation exposure to chips is not something i think nasa worries about. Any of the computing stuff is gonna be surrounded by 2 inch's of Lead casing.

Radiation requirements are a huge deal for something going in a satellite, shielding does not mitigate it entirely. There's an entire industry for rad-tolerant parts. Even then the selections can be very limited for some things.

 

[ShintaiDK]

WTB radiation proof 4770k

Not gonna happen I guess, due to the processnode being used. Smaller transistors dont work well with cosmic rays.

 

[ShintaiDK]

radiation exposure to chips is not something i think nasa worries about. Any of the computing stuff is gonna be surrounded by 2 inch's of Lead casing.

Lead is unfortunately very heavy. And you need around 1000 times the fuel to lift the weight into space.

Also 2 inch lead is not enough. Lead for example is a very poor neutron radiation shield.

 

[tweakboy]

Just called them NO they dont.

 

[Zodiark1593]

So, the dual 1.5 GHZ Cortex A9 processor in my phone destroys anything in use in Nasa's satellites and other such equipment. Even though the usage models are entirely different, I still can't help but smirk a little at that thought.

I wonder what kind of error correction goes on in such systems. Depending on the setup, the cpus could very well not be bottlenecking anything.

 

[Shivansps]

They dont need lot of processing power for space missions.

 

[Eug]

I find it interesting that Curiosity uses a G3. I sold my G3 iBook in 2001 because I found it far too slow for home use.

 

[pmv]

I guess both for both space and military applications you want reliability and consistency rather than the latest-and-greatest.

This must be why the Colonial Marines in Aliens seem to use sentry guns controlled by pre-80286 laptops - in the year 2176!

(one of these, apparently)

 

[CZroe]

Does NASA still pluralize with apostrophes?