Does the new 50MP 5Ds eliminate the need for the 7Dii?

[waterjug]

Budget notwithstanding, the massive reach from the 50MP more than makes up for the crop factor on the 7Dii. Is there any reason besides budget that would make someone go for the 7Dii??

 

[CuriousMike]

Faster auto-focus ?
Faster burst rate ?
Better video ?

 

[blastingcap]

How many AF points are in the crop area of the 5Ds, compared to the 7DII?

Burst rate and buffer size, video, etc. also matter as Mike said. Plus there is a significant price difference. And some lenses can only work with APSC bodies IIRC; they don't work with full-frame due to the larger mirror.

 

[ElFenix]

afaik the D800's AF points are all within the crop area - canon's may be the same (due to how perpendicular the light has to be to activate the AF point you can't spread them out everywhere)

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Anyone with a crop sensor Canon will obviously have to replace all of his glass to upgrade to a 5DS/R. That, combined with the dubious benefit of a 50 MP sensor, will likely deter many people. I am a Nikon guy but my sense is that I would rather have a 5D III than a 5DS/R.

 

[Berliner]

It is VERY inconvenient to work with crop factor lenses on a full frame body.

If you don't care about budget, you would probably just get both.

 

[waterjug]

It is VERY inconvenient to work with crop factor lenses on a full frame body.

If you don't care about budget, you would probably just get both.

The 5Ds is coming with a crop-mode though.

 

[waterjug]

Anyone with a crop sensor Canon will obviously have to replace all of his glass to upgrade to a 5DS/R. That, combined with the dubious benefit of a 50 MP sensor, will likely deter many people. I am a Nikon guy but my sense is that I would rather have a 5D III than a 5DS/R.

The crop lenses are cheaper though, if I recall. Most of the better lenses are compatible with both

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The crop lenses are cheaper though, if I recall. Most of the better lenses are compatible with both

I know - it's just that most people with crop sensor cameras have probably purchased crop sensor lenses. Full frame lenses are pretty much always bulkier, heavier and more expensive.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The 5Ds is coming with a crop-mode though.

Pretty much all modern FF cameras include a crop mode, and I believe they all automatically shift into crop mode when a crop lens is attached (I know the Nikons do). I have a FF Nikon and occasionally use the crop mode to effectively add zoom length, since even the cropped image still has plenty of resolution. I just don't see many people spending $4K on a 5DS/R so they can use it as a crop sensor camera by using crop lenses.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I'm not sure the 5D and 7D compete in the same sectors. Haven switched camps during my consideration of the D800E, I found myself asking is 36MP really needed. For my situation, I said no. A 24MP FF camera was sufficient so I am bewildered by Canon's perceived need to compete in the idiot pixel race.

If I were a D800E owner I do not think I'd be jumping ship just to get more pixels out of a same sized imager. If I wanted that route I'd buy a cell phone and call myself a fototaker. <newspaper pun intended>

 

[finbarqs]

Goodness, @ 50+ MP, they better make sure they get nothing but the best glass... otherwise canon will have a lot of returns... With pixels that small, you'd better get the best glass to out resolve the sensor... Otherwise, you'll get highly detailed images, but they're not very sharp at all. Diffraction in action = not fun.

 

[AkumaX]

Pretty much all modern FF cameras include a crop mode, and I believe they all automatically shift into crop mode when a crop lens is attached (I know the Nikons do). I have a FF Nikon and occasionally use the crop mode to effectively add zoom length, since even the cropped image still has plenty of resolution. I just don't see many people spending $4K on a 5DS/R so they can use it as a crop sensor camera by using crop lenses.

You take for granted the fact that FF Nikon (FX) can take in and mount DX lenses.

Canon FF can't.

However, this 5DS will be Canon's 1st FF camera (EF) that can mount it's crop frame equivalent (EF-S)

 

[ElFenix]

I'm not sure the 5D and 7D compete in the same sectors. Haven switched camps during my consideration of the D800E, I found myself asking is 36MP really needed. For my situation, I said no. A 24MP FF camera was sufficient so I am bewildered by Canon's perceived need to compete in the idiot pixel race.

If I were a D800E owner I do not think I'd be jumping ship just to get more pixels out of a same sized imager. If I wanted that route I'd buy a cell phone and call myself a fototaker. <newspaper pun intended>

it's for landscape and studio work (3 stops lower max amplification than the 5D3 and 6D). more resolution is appreciated there.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

You take for granted the fact that FF Nikon (FX) can take in and mount DX lenses.

Canon FF can't.

However, this 5DS will be Canon's 1st FF camera (EF) that can mount it's crop frame equivalent (EF-S)

Interesting - I did not know that. It seems like a slight disadvantage for Canon relative to Nikon, though I doubt there are a ton of people itching to spend FF money on a camera only to use crop lenses.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

it's for landscape and studio work (3 stops lower max amplification than the 5D3 and 6D). more resolution is appreciated there.

I know that, which is WHY I said the new model doesn't compete with the 7D.

 

[AkumaX]

Interesting - I did not know that. It seems like a slight disadvantage for Canon relative to Nikon, though I doubt there are a ton of people itching to spend FF money on a camera only to use crop lenses.

Yeah actually its pretty crappy haha. It should have been a given that you could mount crop lenses on full frame.

There are certain lenses you can use that are crop frame on full frame (like the Canon EF-S 10-22mm), but you run a risk that the mirror flips up and hits the lens @ ranges 16-22mm (or the other way around, I forget)

However, you could use 3rd party crop lenses. I remember using a crop lens Sigma 30mm f/1.4, and getting something like this:

http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/i...500D38D190/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

You'd have to crop it in post yourself, as there is no "crop" mode on any of the FF bodies.

 

[ElFenix]

I know that, which is WHY I said the new model doesn't compete with the 7D.

You also said you're bewildered by the pixel race

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Yeah actually its pretty crappy haha. It should have been a given that you could mount crop lenses on full frame.

There are certain lenses you can use that are crop frame on full frame (like the Canon EF-S 10-22mm), but you run a risk that the mirror flips up and hits the lens @ ranges 16-22mm (or the other way around, I forget)

However, you could use 3rd party crop lenses. I remember using a crop lens Sigma 30mm f/1.4, and getting something like this:

http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/i...500D38D190/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

You'd have to crop it in post yourself, as there is no "crop" mode on any of the FF bodies.

That is really goofy. I will probably never mount a crop lens on my Nikon FF body, but I would find it galling if I couldn't do so.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

You also said you're bewildered by the pixel race

I am bewildered by the pixel race. If you are looking for resolution and landscape photography why not look for something with pixels and a larger imager?

I doubt they are going to see a swarth of folks dumping their current 5D's for a 50MP small format camera as the file sizes for non-landscape usage will be a headache. And trying to take customers from the competition (e.g. D800E) seems feeble.

Then there is the question of optics. It seems more like a marketing ploy than a logical, rational reason to jump way beyond what was already working for them.

I'd much rather like to see innovation from them with efforts in other areas and not just a pixel count. For folks not focused on landscape photography they should consider staying where they are or buying the phased out 5d3.

 

[ElFenix]

iirc canon has never made any MF cameras, and it's probably not about to start now considering it has no installed base of lenses.

I'm guessing the type of people to buy something like this aren't using it as their only camera.

5D4 will replace the 5D3. I doubt it pushes the pixel count much.

 

[Aharami]

I dont get the market this camera is trying to capture. Yea it's 50mp at a somewhat affordable price. But it's still the same dynamic range as the 5DMk3. A medium format camera has much better DR than that. And any pro/semi-pro needing 50MP for their studio is going to upgrade to a MF system.

 

[Kippa]

I dont get the market this camera is trying to capture. Yea it's 50mp at a somewhat affordable price. But it's still the same dynamic range as the 5DMk3. A medium format camera has much better DR than that. And any pro/semi-pro needing 50MP for their studio is going to upgrade to a MF system.

A Phase One Medium digital camera at 60 Megapixels is roughly at least £20,000+ for the body, where as the new Canon 5Ds is a bargain at £3,000 in comparison.

As for dynamic range you still get quite a large amount when shooting at 100 ISO which you are more likely do be doing in a professional studio with strobe lights. As for the dark areas like in the dark side of a models face, you are realistically going to use a 2nd strobe or a reflector dish to fill it in.

As for the details at 50 megapixels I have seen a test shot taken from a zoom lens being the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L and it is razor sharp having no problems resolving the details at all at 50megapixles. This isn't bad considering that the shot was taken from a zoom lens and not a prime and it is still performed excellently.

I'd say that the 5D MK III is a good all round camera designed for multi purpose use, where as the 5Ds is more of a niche camera specifically designed for a smaller group of people in mind. For the cost it is fantastic value for money if you are a professional fashion portrait photographer or a landscape photographer.