Does Windows 8 still stink?

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xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
I hated Windows 8 with a passion. In every forum I read about it I would spew my hatred. Then Windows 8.1 came and supposedly it made things better, buy my hatred was such that I wouldn't even consider it...

Then my company made everybody in IT switch to Windows 8. I hated that, sent an email to the IT manager saying how he could go to hell (in much nicer words of course). But the decision was made. So, I got Windows 8.1 in my work computer. Resigned, I made it boot to desktop, then installed Classic Shell, and ... I liked it! It works pretty much like Windows 7. In fact I never see the Windows 8 interface unless my mouse wanders too much to a corner and the right edge opens some options (you can disable that in Windows Shell too so it just never shows).

So, when I bought my laptop a couple of months ago it came with Windows 8. I left it there, installed Classic Shell and it works just as if it was Windows 7 (except now I have the internal improvements that Windows 8 introduced).

So no, it doesn't stink (as long as you install Classic Shell and set W8 to boot to desktop).
 

Noo

Senior member
Oct 11, 2013
389
10
81
It's funny how everyone loves windows 8...if only they make it work, look, and act exactly like windows 7.
 

ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
31
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Then my company made everybody in IT switch to Windows 8. I hated that, sent an email to the IT manager saying how he could go to hell (in much nicer words of course). But the decision was made. So, I got Windows 8.1 in my work computer. Resigned
"Man resigns because company made him upgrade to Windows 8"

Imagine all the hits this story would get on News Sites ^^ Voted "Most popular article" and "xantub is now tied with Edward Snowden as the most famous rolemodel on the internet for 2014" :awe:
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
7,721
40
91
It's not an issue since Win8 is designed that way,so more of an issue with some users which can be too damn choosey/picky or don't want to adapt to a different or new OS.

How do you think I have moved on since DOS days to modern Windows and Linux distros?..Yes by adapting and learning every new OS that I use including Vista,Win7,8 etc,yes I have seen bigger changes(good and bad) then what some users moan about from 7 to 8 which I consider minor compared to operating systems over the decades.

PCs have been in decline due to other reasons ie competition with other types of hardware,remember years ago PC had no competition but now that's a whole different story.
You want a pure desktop then look at Linux distros since they do it better then any Windows OS you can name.


Regardless got my front seat booked for Win9,can't wait to see what some users moan about with that OS.
Tantrum number nine coming our way .

In particular I am talking about features that are hidden for user, yet they are there. Like in 8.0 right click on the empty area brings up poop (pun intended) menu with all power user options (Control Panel, shutdown, Programs and Features, etc. ). Neat. But mind f*** because it is not visible. And plus on most laptops there is a very thin line between left click and right click, so you surely don't want to put 2 very distinctive features on the same area, controlled by whether you do left or right click. There has to be a better UI way to handle this feature. I don't need to solve the riddle everytime I need to use some feature. And that's what most of people who accept Windows 8 can't grasp. It screws ups people who are wired differently in brain because of UI choices that have been made.
 
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xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
It's funny how everyone loves windows 8...if only they make it work, look, and act exactly like windows 7.
Oh, no question about it. I still totally hate that 'formerly known as Metro' interface, but I do like the internal changes (faster boot, etc), so when you can replace the bad for something good while keeping what's already good, it's a win/win.
 

G73S

Senior member
Mar 14, 2012
635
0
0
Oh, no question about it. I still totally hate that 'formerly known as Metro' interface, but I do like the internal changes (faster boot, etc), so when you can replace the bad for something good while keeping what's already good, it's a win/win.
If only Windows 7 works with UEFI boot, I would never touch 8. I just love Windows 8`s UEFI boot so much, saves me 3 seconds each boot! Time is moneh!
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
1,546
0
76
It's funny how everyone loves windows 8...if only they make it work, look, and act exactly like windows 7.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

metro ui, start menu, and aero glass should had been available options. stupid microsoft.
 

code65536

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2006
1,006
0
76
It's funny how everyone loves windows 8...if only they make it work, look, and act exactly like windows 7.

Not quite. If it was exactly like Windows 7, I wouldn't like it. The desktop experience from 7 with all the improvements and fixes that 8 made to that desktop experience.


Sinofsky's mistake was his delusion of a Metrified world.

The thing is, Metro is actually a really great interface... for touch. I have a Windows tablet and a secondary/backup Windows phone. And I really like them. But Metro is not a good interface for keyboard/mouse and, most importantly, it's not a multitasking UI. Hell, there are no windows!

And Windows 8 is, Metro aside, a really great OS. Did anyone follow the Windows 8 development blog before they revealed Metro? I did, and I remember being so excited with each new reveal of an improvement or feature in 8. And everyone else was excited, too. And then they revealed Metro and released the Developer Preview, and all that excitement just vaporized. Because everyone was so worried about Metro that they forgot everything else that changed.

The idea of a hybrid OS is also a good one. Sure, I avoid and rarely use Metro on my desktop and my laptops. And I rarely go to the desktop on my Dell Venue 8 Pro tablet. But I like that the option to do so is there. That I can (clumsily) use a Metro app on the desktop if I felt so inclined, and that I can (clumsily) use a traditional desktop program on my tablet if I felt to inclined. It also makes it possible to have tablets that can be docked to a keyboard or laptops that can be folded into a tablet. In contrast. In contrast, Android would not do well with KB/M, and Apple has two separate, incompatible OSes.

So on paper and in principle, Windows 8 is great.

Where Sinofsky fucked up is that he had this delusion of touch-is-the-future. Which it isn't. And Microsoft's mistake is that they gave Sinofsky too much power and let him fuck things up.

And the mistake was basically making Metro default everywhere and ripping out the Start Menu (even though I like the Start Screen, Microsoft traditionally allowed for a transition period--like Program Manager persisting into Windows 95 and the classic Start Menu persisting through XP and Vista). If they had done things like they did in 8.1U1--that is, default to Metro only on tablets and default to the desktop on all other form factors--things would've worked out muuuuuch better because people would've gotten the interface that fit their system.

Instead, the first impression of 8 that people got was a touch-centric handheld interface on a traditional keyboard/mouse system. So instead of judging Metro as a touch interface, people judged it as a KB/M interface and hated it. Instead of comparing Metro to Android or iOS (in which case Metro is better--split-screen multitasking is more than what those things can do), Metro was instead compared to the Windows desktop. And the sad part of this is that many people are now unwilling to try Metro on tablets (where it really is very good) because they had a sour impression of it as a KB/M interface.

And instead of judging Windows 8 on the plethora of things that it improved, people just saw Metro and forgot everything else.

Thanks a lot, Sinofsky. And good riddance.
 
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Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
Not quite. If it was exactly like Windows 7, I wouldn't like it. The desktop experience from 7 with all the improvements and fixes that 8 made to that desktop experience.


Sinofsky's mistake was his delusion of a Metrified world.

The thing is, Metro is actually a really great interface... for touch. I have a Windows tablet and a secondary/backup Windows phone. And I really like them. But Metro is not a good interface for keyboard/mouse and, most importantly, it's not a multitasking UI. Hell, there are no windows!

This would apply if I can divide my active input attention across multiple windows on a normal desktop - which I can't, I am limited to one drag pointer cursor). At most, I have maybe four windows, shown without overlap, across two monitors for content exposure and work. Any more smaller, then I would need bigger - higher resolution monitors, or more monitors, which desktops can already do, Windows 8 can already do this and even at a more satisfactory level now.

Modern areas, try to bridge this with snapping of the apps + desktop - and it generally works. On larger touchscreen Windows devices, manipulation of window elements work too on the desktop. Even on smaller devices, with a pen, one can still get around.

My main beef on sole-tablet-touch devices, is that there is THAT compromise of syncing software, software compatibility, content carry over, and ALL companies not working in full in cohesion anyways - meaning those who claim "experience" are not even touching that aspect of "experience". It is just as hobbled, but now you are juggling one or more PHYSICAL devices in tow.

Where Sinofsky fucked up is that he had this delusion of touch-is-the-future. Which it isn't. And Microsoft's mistake is that they gave Sinofsky too much power and let him fuck things up.

Initially, the biggest disconnect being in Settings. Touch, is complimentary in all reality and fully augments the desktop area in MANY ways (on capable devices). It is what I mentioned in the first posting in this thread - marketing. It was a mistake to solely push and market touch - without showing how this can really be leveraged amongst a typical desktop environment or coexisting as such.

It also wasn't 8 that started the whole tablet thing. You can easily see in the past with some look, that XP of all things began that seed, but past Windows had pen computing initiative. People complain about the Ribbon aspects, but that too lead to a workable solution in the desktop in program interface, without the menu dive down as in the Start menu of yore (which people ALSO complained about - but many other third party programs are using ribbon aspects now too).

In my adoption of 8, Modern hasn't been my main focus - Surface Pros (IE being an exception of Modern focus) or Desktop PCs otherwise. As I mentioned before, the Start screen - a prime focus, is just a BETTER desktop icon launcher in all ways + Live tile information (widgets in a sense, not shown all the time).

Snapping, just eliminates the bulk of user window management for Modern areas.

Instead, the first impression of 8 that people got was a touch-centric handheld interface on a traditional keyboard/mouse system. So instead of judging Metro as a touch interface, people judged it as a KB/M interface and hated it.

People also don't realize that many or if not at times, have their active window either the largest shown window, or maximized. Even if multiple windows are arranged, one would drag their cursor amongst them all - more frequently than dragging to tiles in the Start Screen, which if invoked with the Windows key (KB/M strict use), their cursor is potentially closer to their intended pinned tile.

And on a technical side, Microsoft gets blamed for other OEM/peripheral driver implementations. Why do you think generic drivers are made by Microsoft? To at least cover a MINIMAL level of use to make up the lack of their OEMs being in line at times - and to still allow the broad use of hardware out there.

Security? It is ALWAYS an ever-growing cat and mouse problem, on any platform. Soon, iOS, OSX, and Android would balloon in addressing these continued exceptions. But nowadays, it is still a USER problem in security - running things without consideration, accepting apps to install without thorough look of the things they require in information...
 
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Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
In particular I am talking about features that are hidden for user, yet they are there. Like in 8.0 right click on the empty area brings up poop (pun intended) menu with all power user options (Control Panel, shutdown, Programs and Features, etc. ). Neat. But mind f*** because it is not visible. And plus on most laptops there is a very thin line between left click and right click, so you surely don't want to put 2 very distinctive features on the same area, controlled by whether you do left or right click. There has to be a better UI way to handle this feature. I don't need to solve the riddle every time I need to use some feature. And that's what most of people who accept Windows 8 can't grasp. It screws ups people who are wired differently in brain because of UI choices that have been made.

The power options ie Shut Down etc were addressed later with Win8.1 and yes some things they could of done better but then I can say that about any OS...I think they should of had a basic tutorial for beginners so they would know the basics,yes most of us can figure it out and no Windows is really rocket science.

Speaking of Win+X menu ie right click on Start button(left bottom corner) is one of my favourite things that I use all the time.
Hybrid OS seems to be the future for Microsoft so first attempt by Microsoft was not bad,Win9 will be interesting to see how they fine tune it.

I don't think you see a pure desktop Microsoft OS again to be honest unless you go with Linux.


Having said all that it does not take an average person long to get to know Win8/8.1 so not a serious issue.

Every OS has some learning curve especially with new UI or changes,believe me I've seen so many over the decades from both Microsoft and Linux that now I hardly bat an eye lid when something different is released.
 
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Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
It's funny how everyone loves windows 8...if only they make it work, look, and act exactly like windows 7.


So you want Win7 which works and looks like Vista which works and looks like XP which works like looks Win98 which works and looks like Win95 so almost twenty years there,don't you think something different was due sooner or later and as you know OS changes happen(OS adapting to new modern hardware) ie remember Win3.11 OS something we have not seen a 3.11 UI wise for a very long time.

Regardless Win8.1 is not that much different from Win7,stay on the old desktop and keep away from Metro Start if you hate it,even have Win8.1 boot to old desktop, the Control Panel,System, Device Manager etc is virtually the same ,stick shortcuts on the old desktop and taskbar like you can do on Win7 and its not that much different.

I could throw in a third party Start menu if you really want the old way and bingo we are back to Win95 days.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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I've been using windows 8 for a year. Its fine, not perfect but fine. People whine far too much about trivial matters involving win 8
 
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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
I just never really felt like upgrading from Windows 7. That, combined with a terrible UI in Windows 8 just made it a total no go for me. And yes, I did try it out. Total waste of $40 for me.

I think by the time Windows 9 comes out, I'll be in the mood to try out a new OS.

So you want Win7 which works and looks like Vista which works and looks like XP which works like looks Win98 which works and looks like Win95 so almost twenty years there.
It works, and over the years they've tweaked it making it better each time. I actually loved Vista when everyone else hated it because of the Aero tweaks and Start Search. I couldn't back to XP after being able to hover find my windows in the background very quickly, or search something I needed in the start menu within seconds. It managed to make me more productive while "looking better" as well.

With 8, I might as well just accept this is more of a death of home desktop issue more than anything. Hybrid is probably just the beginning for tablet/phablet/phone oriented.
 
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Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
I just never really felt like upgrading from Windows 7. That, combined with a terrible UI in Windows 8 just made it a total no go for me. And yes, I did try it out. Total waste of $40 for me.

I think by the time Windows 9 comes out, I'll be in the mood to try out a new OS.

It works, and over the years they've tweaked it making it better each time. I actually loved Vista when everyone else hated it because of the Aero tweaks and Start Search. I couldn't back to XP after being able to hover find my windows in the background very quickly, or search something I needed in the start menu within seconds. It managed to make me more productive while "looking better" as well.

With 8, I might as well just accept this is more of a death of home desktop issue more than anything. Hybrid is probably just the beginning for tablet/phablet/phone oriented.


Don't worry be something new to moan about in Win9 for some users,as to what works to be honest not had an OS that does not work,Linux is a good example of working desktop operating system that changes over time.

Desktop PC is no longer alone like the old days ,it faces competition from all directions now regardless of OS you use.

I'll carry on adapting rather then moaning as each new OS arrives,it's not like its hard or you need IQ above 50.
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,524
553
136
I'll carry on adapting rather then moaning as each new OS arrives,it's not like its hard or you need IQ above 50.

I see you moaning a lot about people who don't like Window 8. Not to mention constantly insulting their intelligence because they don't like it.

It's getting pretty old.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
I see you moaning a lot about people who don't like Window 8. Not to mention constantly insulting their intelligence because they don't like it.

It's getting pretty old.

Its been like that since 8's release. Dont think this forum would be the same without Mem heading up the windows 8 defence squad :awe:
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,762
2,147
146
I see you moaning a lot about people who don't like Window 8. Not to mention constantly insulting their intelligence because they don't like it.

It's getting pretty old.
Maybe he feels the same way. The constant complaining about 8 is getting pretty old honestly. It's really not that complicated to use but every other day we get threads like this.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Geez!

This is the problem with Windows 8...

In the early days of computers, interfaces were not standardized. It was very difficult learning how to use software because every software had their own commands, their own shortcuts, their own menu systems.

And as Windows kept moving along in development, programs began standardizing their interfaces. We no longer needed to study manuals to operate each piece of software, we knew how to get common tasks done and knew how to find additional options, because every software operated the same.


Now comes the mobile devices. Suddenly the interfaces that we have grown accustomed to are no longer there. And near everyone has a different interface trying to create the most efficient experience. Memorize this shortcut. Tap the screen here. Swipe from this side of the screen. Place the mouse in this corner then select these three consecutive options each of which are labelled names that are in no way descriptive of the end item you are in search of.


This is the typical first experience of the common user on their brand new Windows 8 laptop:
Writing up a document in Word, need to move the mouse over to select an option... uhh, why did this random app suddenly come up full screen with no "x" to close it? How do I shut down this program? How do I get back to my Word document? I have no idea what is going on, I just need to get back to working on my document, and I don't know how to do it...


We use computers for the software that we load on it. The operating system simply provides us access to the software. The idea that operating systems should periodically change and dazzle us with new interfaces to learn, is bull. We use computers for the software, not the OS.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
the only reason I stick to 7 is my benchmarks are 15% in every single benchmark in Windows 7. Why is it that Windows 8.1 is more optimized for newer hardware and SSDs but sucks so much in AS SSD and 3DMark gets m 200 points less in Windows 8.1?????????? how can a dinosaur OS such as Windows 7 perform much better?

8 boots faster? WRONG, it gets u to the desktop faster but then as it starts to load things, they balance each other out. Windows 7 may boot a few seconds slower but the desktop is immediately usable the moment you see the desktop screen.

Actually 8 boots quite a bit faster and yes to a working desktop. It's more of a hybrid boot like very similar to coming out of hibernation.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
Not here to criticize, but only to comment.

Back in '94, '95, '99 and subsequent "release-years," when I had more income to spend thoughtlessly on the "latest and greatest," I'd jump on a new OS version before the bugs were ironed out. I was still using Win 2000 Pro in '04, though, when XP had been available earlier. I jumped on VISTA only after SP1 had been released. And I waited for SP1 for Windows 7.

I think I'm leaning toward being a sort of "software Luddite" now. But I have to "feel yur pain" with friends who couldn't let go of XP. This is much about the speed of hardware development progress as much as it is about OS's.

Right now, all the Win 7 boxes in the house work fine with the WHS-2011 box, and I'm just not budgeting for OS upgrades until I absolutely need to do it.

Whether Win 8 sucks or not, whether 8.1 adds wonderful-ness to 8 -- I can't care that much. I don't need a "touch-screen" desktop monitor. My cell-phone is 5 years old, and I don't care if I can't use it to communicate with my LAN to "tell" a workstation or server "what to do."

Maybe I'll get my toes wet and try a Win 8.1 license next year. I just don't want to degrade what I deem to be "perfection" by shifting too soon to a "latest and greatest."
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,051
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I'm still going to stick with upgrading every other major release. It has worked for me for more than a decade so I have no reason to change.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Actually 8 boots quite a bit faster and yes to a working desktop. It's more of a hybrid boot like very similar to coming out of hibernation.
I think Microsoft tweaked the booting to use more cores which had a beneficial effect in booting times.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Win8 only recently fixed the mouse lag issue in a patch without having to edit the registry (I think) caused by aggressive power savings, great for small handheld devices, bad for gamers.

I haven't kept up with the benchmarks but Win8 was faster in BF4 but didn't have an edge in other games.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Its been like that since 8's release. Dont think this forum would be the same without Mem heading up the windows 8 defence squad :awe:

Don't worry I'll be defending Win9 and 10 and good old Linux which is kind of ironic since I'm typing this post on Ubuntu,does that make me a Linux fan as well .

I keep saying this sure you can dislike any OS ,but lets be honest here since no modern Windows is hard to use,yes some users will moan about something.

I'm looking forward to Win9 to see what's the number one moan in that .
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
I see you moaning a lot about people who don't like Window 8. Not to mention constantly insulting their intelligence because they don't like it.

It's getting pretty old.


I have not insulted anybody's intelligence,just pointed out that any modern Windows including Win8 is not hard to use,infact operating systems are a lot easier then what they were decades ago,sure you can moan and dislike an OS but it does not take away the fact they are pretty simple nowadays IMHO.



With respect just wait for Win9 and we'll see it start all over again.

I'll be on Win9 so should be another hot thread and topic.

 
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