Doesnt World of Warcraft Suck?

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CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: TGS
You say "The game itself is good.", call the game easy and purely PvP focused, call the community primarily 12 year olds, and then you say "it's not a good game".
You've already earned the Idiot Award, are you going for an encore? Ok, fine - time for Logic 101, sport. While the game may be easy and PvP focused, things I don't like, that doesn't make it a bad game. What I think of the game's playerbase has nothing to do with what I think of the game. Nor does what I voted in a badly worded, biased yes/no poll with no median option.
What am I missing?
What I typed. I'm starting to think you're illiterate and just dictating to your mother.
I'll ask why do you keep playing WoW if you don't enjoy it?
You've asked this probably five times now and each time I've told you I'd already answered it. You've even quoted the post in which I answered it. While I could answer it again, it's unlikely you'd (be able to?) read that either, and it's more entertaining to watch your bizarre parrot routine.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
No offense RBachman, reading your responses over the past page you have to be one of the most snide, arrogant, offensive posters on this side of the forums. You talk about how childish people are in WoW and then you exhibit the same qualities here. I had written up a response to what you posted earlier when tried to tear my post apart with a couple 1 liners, but after reading further I am starting to believe you really are just trolling these threads. I have to give you credit though, you've sucked a lot of people in, including myself.

A few gems (just from this page no less!):
"Ok, well I think it's disgusting that you're a member of the KKK and engage in bestiality regularly."
"As I've already told you, what you don't seem to understand is that we're talking about statistics here, not individual people. Obviously you've never taken a high school or college math course, never heard of a bell curve, never learned about averages or percentages... If you need help in this area, send me a PM and I'll be glad to go over it briefly with you in hopes you'll glean some understanding. If it's not enough, I simply don't have the interest to fully tutor you in the subject - but I would highly recommend learning the subject material somehow. "
"I've gone over this as well, and in my very first post to this thread no less. Why must so many people view reading the way superman views kryptonite? *sigh*"
"I generally abhor internet namecalling, but I've exhausted my explanatory resources and anyone with a brain would by now have read & responded to them. TGS, you are a true idiot. Congratulations."
"You've already earned the Idiot Award, are you going for an encore?"
"What I typed. I'm starting to think you're illiterate and just dictating to your mother."

I'm sorry, I would put money on the table that 9/10 people I'd find right now on any WoW server are nicer than you are. Thanks for playing.
 

TGS

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,849
0
0
That's why it's easier to not fall into the troll traps and spout off insults. If you don't play their game, they tend to get upset and stumble upon their own "vices".

To the other people that actually still care to discuss WoW merits or lack thereof, the thread is once again yours.
 

coomar

Banned
Apr 4, 2005
2,431
0
0
i played on the black market servers, it was alright, obviously not the same experience as playing on blizzard servers, free 10 day trial for those who are interested
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: skace
No offense RBachman, reading your responses over the past page you have to be one of the most snide, arrogant, offensive posters on this side of the forums. You talk about how childish people are in WoW and then you exhibit the same qualities here. I had written up a response to what you posted earlier when tried to tear my post apart with a couple 1 liners, but after reading further I am starting to believe you really are just trolling these threads. I have to give you credit though, you've sucked a lot of people in, including myself.

A few gems (just from this page no less!):
"Ok, well I think it's disgusting that you're a member of the KKK and engage in bestiality regularly."
"As I've already told you, what you don't seem to understand is that we're talking about statistics here, not individual people. Obviously you've never taken a high school or college math course, never heard of a bell curve, never learned about averages or percentages... If you need help in this area, send me a PM and I'll be glad to go over it briefly with you in hopes you'll glean some understanding. If it's not enough, I simply don't have the interest to fully tutor you in the subject - but I would highly recommend learning the subject material somehow. "
"I've gone over this as well, and in my very first post to this thread no less. Why must so many people view reading the way superman views kryptonite? *sigh*"
"I generally abhor internet namecalling, but I've exhausted my explanatory resources and anyone with a brain would by now have read & responded to them. TGS, you are a true idiot. Congratulations."
"You've already earned the Idiot Award, are you going for an encore?"
"What I typed. I'm starting to think you're illiterate and just dictating to your mother."

I'm sorry, I would put money on the table that 9/10 people I'd find right now on any WoW server are nicer than you are. Thanks for playing.

What's wrong with the first one? Fair's fair, and you put words in my mouth first.

It certainly gets peoples' attention. It's very frustrating to take the time to write a good post, only to have someone reply in an argumentative manner, in a way which shows they didn't even read your post before making a heated reply (ie. TGS's post which started this argument). It's worse when the hypocrites then accuse you of being argumentative Personally, if I'm only interested enough to skim over a few posts before replying, I simply don't reply - but if I do, I certainly don't flame people.

Idiots deserve no quarter.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Two tips that will increase your enjoyment of the game...

1. "/leave 1"
2. "/leave 2"

/leave 2? ZOMG! How will you ever score that uber BoE blue gear to twink out your level 29 rogue alt for BG?!?


Why do people keep saying twink? From my past experience, a "twink" is a derogatory name for a gay man. You TWEAK out your character... you TWEAK out your car... not twink.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Two tips that will increase your enjoyment of the game...

1. "/leave 1"
2. "/leave 2"

/leave 2? ZOMG! How will you ever score that uber BoE blue gear to twink out your level 29 rogue alt for BG?!?


Why do people keep saying twink? From my past experience, a "twink" is a derogatory name for a gay man. You TWEAK out your character... you TWEAK out your car... not twink.


Twink has been around since the beginning of EQ, its what you call chars that have gear much better than they should for their level.
 

TGS

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
1,849
0
0
Originally posted by: RBachman
Originally posted by: skace
No offense RBachman, reading your responses over the past page you have to be one of the most snide, arrogant, offensive posters on this side of the forums. You talk about how childish people are in WoW and then you exhibit the same qualities here. I had written up a response to what you posted earlier when tried to tear my post apart with a couple 1 liners, but after reading further I am starting to believe you really are just trolling these threads. I have to give you credit though, you've sucked a lot of people in, including myself.

A few gems (just from this page no less!):
"Ok, well I think it's disgusting that you're a member of the KKK and engage in bestiality regularly."
"As I've already told you, what you don't seem to understand is that we're talking about statistics here, not individual people. Obviously you've never taken a high school or college math course, never heard of a bell curve, never learned about averages or percentages... If you need help in this area, send me a PM and I'll be glad to go over it briefly with you in hopes you'll glean some understanding. If it's not enough, I simply don't have the interest to fully tutor you in the subject - but I would highly recommend learning the subject material somehow. "
"I've gone over this as well, and in my very first post to this thread no less. Why must so many people view reading the way superman views kryptonite? *sigh*"
"I generally abhor internet namecalling, but I've exhausted my explanatory resources and anyone with a brain would by now have read & responded to them. TGS, you are a true idiot. Congratulations."
"You've already earned the Idiot Award, are you going for an encore?"
"What I typed. I'm starting to think you're illiterate and just dictating to your mother."

I'm sorry, I would put money on the table that 9/10 people I'd find right now on any WoW server are nicer than you are. Thanks for playing.

What's wrong with the first one? Fair's fair, and you put words in my mouth first.

It certainly gets peoples' attention. It's very frustrating to take the time to write a good post, only to have someone reply in an argumentative manner, in a way which shows they didn't even read your post before making a heated reply (ie. TGS's post which started this argument). It's worse when the hypocrites then accuse you of being argumentative Personally, if I'm only interested enough to skim over a few posts before replying, I simply don't reply - but if I do, I certainly don't flame people.

Actually the first part where we started to discuss was the "lag" factor. Then moving to another server to escape the "high population" lag. Then we encountered yet another, blanket statement about PvPers. The round about way of "I play because it's the only thing out, but I don't enjoy it", chant really doesn't offer up any reason why one would engage in activities they didn't enjoy. When you start with flamebait, you shouldn't exactly be suprised when the flag is thrown out on your blanket statements.


but if I do, I certainly don't flame people.

Never! :laugh:
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Two tips that will increase your enjoyment of the game...

1. "/leave 1"
2. "/leave 2"

/leave 2? ZOMG! How will you ever score that uber BoE blue gear to twink out your level 29 rogue alt for BG?!?


Why do people keep saying twink? From my past experience, a "twink" is a derogatory name for a gay man. You TWEAK out your character... you TWEAK out your car... not twink.


Twink has been around since the beginning of EQ, its what you call chars that have gear much better than they should for their level.

Twink as a name for a gay man has been around for 50+ years... I asked my father what it meant to him and he said kids used to call eachother that when he was in school... probably the same way kids call eachother "fags" now. I think someone in the beginning of EQ misused the term... or others misunderstood it.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: TGS
but if I do, I certainly don't flame people.
Never! :laugh:
Don't quote the whole thing or anything, taking people out of context is the proper way to troll and address their post :roll: Rule 2 would be to call them trolls. Seriously, what are you 12?
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Two tips that will increase your enjoyment of the game...

1. "/leave 1"
2. "/leave 2"

/leave 2? ZOMG! How will you ever score that uber BoE blue gear to twink out your level 29 rogue alt for BG?!?


Why do people keep saying twink? From my past experience, a "twink" is a derogatory name for a gay man. You TWEAK out your character... you TWEAK out your car... not twink.


Twink has been around since the beginning of EQ, its what you call chars that have gear much better than they should for their level.

Twink as a name for a gay man has been around for 50+ years... I asked my father what it meant to him and he said kids used to call eachother that when he was in school... probably the same way kids call eachother "fags" now. I think someone in the beginning of EQ misused the term... or others misunderstood it.

maybe its impossible in your mind that the same word can have more than one meaning, espcially when used as slang.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Two tips that will increase your enjoyment of the game...

1. "/leave 1"
2. "/leave 2"

/leave 2? ZOMG! How will you ever score that uber BoE blue gear to twink out your level 29 rogue alt for BG?!?


Why do people keep saying twink? From my past experience, a "twink" is a derogatory name for a gay man. You TWEAK out your character... you TWEAK out your car... not twink.


Twink has been around since the beginning of EQ, its what you call chars that have gear much better than they should for their level.

Twink as a name for a gay man has been around for 50+ years... I asked my father what it meant to him and he said kids used to call eachother that when he was in school... probably the same way kids call eachother "fags" now. I think someone in the beginning of EQ misused the term... or others misunderstood it.

maybe its impossible in your mind that the same word can have more than one meaning, espcially when used as slang.

Ok, you win, you're so much more intelligent than I am. I bow to your "twinkness."
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
First time I ever heard the word was in EQ to describe an alternate character of a higher level character, usually wearing nice to very nice gear for their level. Never knew about the gay connotation till reading a post about that on the EQ boards, but then I'm not gay, so that's understandable. Regardless, it was a widely used term in EQ, I guess a lot of us were naives, like the people in old movies talking about having a gay (good, happy) time with dicks (private investigators) and such :laugh:
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Twink as a name for a gay man has been around for 50+ years... I asked my father what it meant to him and he said kids used to call eachother that when he was in school... probably the same way kids call eachother "fags" now. I think someone in the beginning of EQ misused the term... or others misunderstood it.

Perhaps people started using the term with the same connotation behind it. Twinking has always been frowned upon to a certain degree so maybe the first people to use twinking meant to call those characters gay. But it lost its power when people started utilizing it regularly.

Wikipedia states it got its roots in MUDs, although I don't recall hearing it used back then, MUDs go back a long way and could possibly bridge that connection between the 2 definitions:

"Twink
Twinking is a term in the MMORPG community referring to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available at that characters level. The term derives from early MUSH slang, where it was an insult directed at a player implying that they lacked skill in role-playing or in social graces. Twinking is somewhat rarer now, as most of the newer MMORPGs have level limits on equipment preventing low level players from using high level armor - the result, however, has been to drastically inflate the price of exceptionally powerful low-level gear in game."
 

Micah

Senior member
Dec 30, 2000
329
0
0
I play WoW and I like it.

For real role-playing, though, I play old-school D&D. It doesn't get any better than pencil & paper role-playing around the game table.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Twink as a name for a gay man has been around for 50+ years... I asked my father what it meant to him and he said kids used to call eachother that when he was in school... probably the same way kids call eachother "fags" now. I think someone in the beginning of EQ misused the term... or others misunderstood it.

Perhaps people started using the term with the same connotation behind it. Twinking has always been frowned upon to a certain degree so maybe the first people to use twinking meant to call those characters gay. But it lost its power when people started utilizing it regularly.

Wikipedia states it got its roots in MUDs, although I don't recall hearing it used back then, MUDs go back a long way and could possibly bridge that connection between the 2 definitions:

"Twink
Twinking is a term in the MMORPG community referring to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available at that characters level. The term derives from early MUSH slang, where it was an insult directed at a player implying that they lacked skill in role-playing or in social graces. Twinking is somewhat rarer now, as most of the newer MMORPGs have level limits on equipment preventing low level players from using high level armor - the result, however, has been to drastically inflate the price of exceptionally powerful low-level gear in game."

Look at the definitions for "twink" on dictionary.com... "may derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs."
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Look at the definitions for "twink" on dictionary.com... "may derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs."

Yea? And? In my previous post I was stating that I agreed with you and that it was most likely twisted throughout it's online lifetime.
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Originally posted by: RBachman
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
The gear gap has always been the same. It was always percentage based.

EQ original: You weren't doing Plane of Hate/Fear/Nagafen/Vox without a healthy amount of people geared in SolB/Guk drops. I can't think of a haste item pre-FBSS. That was 21% haste. Quite a large gap, no? Then go up to Cloak of Flames. 36%. HUGE gap. That is basically a warrior doing more than non-hasted rogue damage.

Kunark: Class Chest/Legs drop from Trakanon and Venril Sathir. You weren't getting these without a raiding guild. A normal group couldn't do the Sebilis Golems. The closest alternative were from original: Planar BP/Legs, again tough to get for a casual. Veeshan's Peak absolutely was stellar compared to any gear you could get in Kunark. Epics were definately a gigintic power gain for some classes.

Velious: The rich get richer. Kael/Skyshrine/Thurg armor. A few groups of casuals MIGHT have been able to farm Plane of Growth for a set of gear. HUGE might.
The biggest problem with your claim that PoP brought along the power imbalance: SLEEPER'S TOMB. Primal weapons were the largest gain in DPS in the game. Period. The difference between a guild with and without primal weapons was out of this world.
Comparing a tank decked in POG gear and hmm, best non-epic casual obtainable weapons at that time would have been Jade Maces (9dam/18del) with a warrior decked in full ntov gear and best weapons: Jaelin's Katana and Primal offhand. I won't go with blade of carnage, the AoW wasn't downed until the night before luclin came out. There isn't a comparison at all.

Luclin: There was casual content in luclin? The Itraer Vius had crap loot and was a hard fight until you learned the trick. Rumblecrush/Doomshade were simply ok loot wise. If you don't count any raid content at all, luclin had nothing for casuals. Nothing. The biggest thing it brought was slightly easier travel to the continents and the bazaar.

I think we had a miscommunication at some point - I'm talking about the power of gear, not the difficulty to obtain it. In the Velious era raid-obtained gear was perhaps 25-35% better, on average, than more obtainable stuff. As I've said, I think this was the sweet spot - it was better but not gamebreaking, and offered a reward for defeating more difficult raid content while not eclipsing the rest of the game's depth and paths to advancement, nor luring people who disliked raiding into doing it anyway. Fast-forward to Planes of Power, and the gear gap gets closer to 200%. You get a bored raid rogue in your group, you can afk while he pretty much solos, tanking better than the war/pal/sk and outdamaging the rest of the group combined. What's wrong with this picture?

No. There was no miscommunication. Maybe a misinterpretation or absence of reading my info.

Original EQ:

Casual player: NO haste. Gear with little if any +stat equipment (where the majority of hp/atk came from at the time). Best weapon 7/25? I'm thinking that might be generous.
Hardcore player: 36% haste. 8/24 Ykesha or 8/23 Cazic thule sword. Hell 4/13 for Rangers. Equipment with much more +stat.

The gap was the same as it is today. You just didn't see it. The only difference is that it is a bit more work to bridge the gap as a casual these days, and even then only to a certain extent.

As to the age difference in EQ and WoW:
I'll conceed a maturity difference. I feel that the people that slugged their way to 60+ in EQ were more mature than the WoW population is at 60. Age difference? Not likely. The reason for EQ's maturity is because of how much more difficult it really is. Solo to 20-25ish MAX (as a group dependent class: warrior, cleric, rogue, ench) , then group or pay a huge time penalty.
The absolute type players of both (read: best/worst) are equal.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
Originally posted by: RBachman
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
The gear gap has always been the same. It was always percentage based.

EQ original: You weren't doing Plane of Hate/Fear/Nagafen/Vox without a healthy amount of people geared in SolB/Guk drops. I can't think of a haste item pre-FBSS. That was 21% haste. Quite a large gap, no? Then go up to Cloak of Flames. 36%. HUGE gap. That is basically a warrior doing more than non-hasted rogue damage.

Kunark: Class Chest/Legs drop from Trakanon and Venril Sathir. You weren't getting these without a raiding guild. A normal group couldn't do the Sebilis Golems. The closest alternative were from original: Planar BP/Legs, again tough to get for a casual. Veeshan's Peak absolutely was stellar compared to any gear you could get in Kunark. Epics were definately a gigintic power gain for some classes.

Velious: The rich get richer. Kael/Skyshrine/Thurg armor. A few groups of casuals MIGHT have been able to farm Plane of Growth for a set of gear. HUGE might.
The biggest problem with your claim that PoP brought along the power imbalance: SLEEPER'S TOMB. Primal weapons were the largest gain in DPS in the game. Period. The difference between a guild with and without primal weapons was out of this world.
Comparing a tank decked in POG gear and hmm, best non-epic casual obtainable weapons at that time would have been Jade Maces (9dam/18del) with a warrior decked in full ntov gear and best weapons: Jaelin's Katana and Primal offhand. I won't go with blade of carnage, the AoW wasn't downed until the night before luclin came out. There isn't a comparison at all.

Luclin: There was casual content in luclin? The Itraer Vius had crap loot and was a hard fight until you learned the trick. Rumblecrush/Doomshade were simply ok loot wise. If you don't count any raid content at all, luclin had nothing for casuals. Nothing. The biggest thing it brought was slightly easier travel to the continents and the bazaar.

I think we had a miscommunication at some point - I'm talking about the power of gear, not the difficulty to obtain it. In the Velious era raid-obtained gear was perhaps 25-35% better, on average, than more obtainable stuff. As I've said, I think this was the sweet spot - it was better but not gamebreaking, and offered a reward for defeating more difficult raid content while not eclipsing the rest of the game's depth and paths to advancement, nor luring people who disliked raiding into doing it anyway. Fast-forward to Planes of Power, and the gear gap gets closer to 200%. You get a bored raid rogue in your group, you can afk while he pretty much solos, tanking better than the war/pal/sk and outdamaging the rest of the group combined. What's wrong with this picture?

No. There was no miscommunication. Maybe a misinterpretation or absence of reading my info.

Original EQ:

Casual player: NO haste. Gear with little if any +stat equipment (where the majority of hp/atk came from at the time). Best weapon 7/25? I'm thinking that might be generous.
Hardcore player: 36% haste. 8/24 Ykesha or 8/23 Cazic thule sword. Hell 4/13 for Rangers. Equipment with much more +stat.

The gap was the same as it is today. You just didn't see it. The only difference is that it is a bit more work to bridge the gap as a casual these days, and even then only to a certain extent.

As to the age difference in EQ and WoW:
I'll conceed a maturity difference. I feel that the people that slugged their way to 60+ in EQ were more mature than the WoW population is at 60. Age difference? Not likely. The reason for EQ's maturity is because of how much more difficult it really is. Solo to 20-25ish MAX (as a group dependent class: warrior, cleric, rogue, ench) , then group or pay a huge time penalty.
The absolute type players of both (read: best/worst) are equal.

I didn't say at release, I said in the Velious era. Regardless, why couldn't a casual get a yak or fbss, and what guaranteed a hardcore a cof? They were lucky to have an rbb... You're exaggerating both extremes.

You admit a maturity gap but deny an age gap... interesting. Do you disagree with my statement that mental and physical maturity hightly corellate?
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Casual by definition wouldn't have put in the time to camp in LGuk for an FBSS or Yak with their horrible drop rates during original EQ. Difference between and RBB and CoF dropwise? None. One from Vox, the other from Nagafen. Most hardcores had haste while very few casuals could attempt to obtain a haste item.

So Velious with Primal weapons, the most game breaking items ever introduced (Devs later repeatedly stated they wished they had never been implemented), wasn't imbalanced for casual versus hardcore? I'm trying to think of the single best item you could obtain outside of Ntov/Vindi, Statue, Tormax, Aow/Dain in velious. I would say Thurg/Plane of Growth breastplates, but those too were extremely rare and difficult to obtain.

And don't say primals were difficult for a hardcore guild to obtain. My guild was half an expansion behind the main pack and we keyed up for ST extremely quickly and were raking in the primals at warp speed. Primal weapons with their OMG ratios (13dam/20del) easily boosted my dps by 20%. I was in full skyshrine gear before heading into NToV and could have added 30-80hp to nearly every piece of my gear in there. There is absolutely no comparison.

The largest difference in velious, at least for tanks, was agro weaponry. Willsapper (dropped in Dragon Necropolis from a mean little rat named Vaniki) was lightyears ahead of the warrior red epic in holding agro.

You know what difference you were seeing? There was NO SINGLE GROUP content for the extremely well geared. Starting from PoP on, there was a large increase in single group content that required hardier gear. The bastion of thunder had named giants that REQUIRED defensive disc to kill. The rewards were also quite nice in the ornate armor. Casuals had to gear up to tank the more difficult new zones.

Edit: Forgot to respond to maturity comment

There may be a correlation, but it definately isn't very strong at all. Judging by your knock on a previous poster about bell curves et al, I'll assume you'll know what I mean when I say a plot of the data would have high scatter.

To compound the difficulty in telling who is who, Its easy to observe that very few people can speak in proper grammar. Nevermind even attempting to type it properly. AIM speak has taken a horrible grasp of online communication. I see far more AIM speak (u, ur, there for there/their/they're, just horrible grammar lazy/spelling) than l33t speak in game.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
I'll agree that age vs maturity isn't directly proportional, but I do agree with Stphen...err Bachman, that a 13 year old is vastly more likely to act like a dick, use l337 speak, and so on, compared to a 20 year old.

That said, of course there will always be some very mature young(by MMORPG standards) people, and some older people who act like they're 13.
For example, we had a guy on our server, a complete dick, I'd have guessed he wasn't even 13 if I didn't know he was actually 20.
Everyone knew who he was simply because he acted the way he did, he even got banned two or three times, before eventually selling his account.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Again, BP, you're exaggerating both sides and painting a picture far more polarized than it actually was. You infer that all hardcores had 36% haste pre-RoK, then say fbss (21%) was hardcore only and ignore rbb (31%)... Regardless, many casuals spent what time they had in LGuk for a shot at these "hardcore-only" items, and many got them. They were NOT raid items, they were obtainable by one group. While not WoW-like (two entirely different itemization systems there), the drop rate didn't make them unattainable at all. During SoV I farmed FBSSs regularly & sold 'em for 6-12k apiece, depending. Later on I started farming both those and yaks at the same time, as a GM troll smith I could make the yaks worthwhile.

On the later content - I'm talking about obtainable gear during PoP being only very marginally better than that available during Kunark & Velious (and only being available for a precious few slots), while raid gear tripled in strength during that time period. I know hp aren't everything, but they'll serve as an example: The highest hp on a droppable item in Velious: 100. Nodrop in Velious, 100. (despite this, there's no arguing raid gear was better in SoV) Droppable in PoP: 120. Nodrop in PoP: 300. Every piece of t4+ raid gear was essentially the same; a ton of every stat and 150-200 hp/mana. It had no character whatsoever, it was simply overpowered. Meanwhile, many of the best obtainable items for most slots on my shaman, since I refused to play carrot & stick in PoP, were from Velious. Until I started making Farwater, most were from Velious. That's ridiculous man, raid gear gets a 200% boost and the best stuff anyone not doing 60man raids can get is 2 expansions and 2 years old?

I also think you're glossing over the age gap, but there's really no way to ascertain this. The truth likely lies between the negative view I take on it and your positive spin. Regardless, read the official forums sometime, if you haven't, for a good look at it.

ps. BoT nameds were soloable by enchanters for a while. While it did get nerfed, you certainly didn't need defensive for them, a pally friend of mine was able to tank them, and in our typical 5man group at that.

pps. You haven't addressed the loss of class roles due to such huge gear disparities. On this note, another thing I'll bring up is the gear gap is that it allowed uberguilders to 1-2group raid content, thus c**kblocking younger guilds and pickup raids - an opportunity they rarely missed. When factioning Yeli to turn my second WDH into the boots during PoP, I watched 9 people from my servers top guild take out Tormax.
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Its not possible to cockblock content that isn't needed to progress. Emp Ssra being 3 grouped could be seen as cockblocking, but very few guilds attempted entry into ssra after GoD went live.

Don't accuse me of glazing over haste. Very few casuals had haste pre-kunark. VERY FEW. I would say hardcore players had 20-fold the haste that casuals did at that stage in the game. Was haste slightly obtainable? sure. Congratulations on your ability to farm LGuk during velious. Kunark added RBGs, sash of the dragonborn, velious added silver chitin handwraps. Haste became more obtainable, sure. The gap decreased.

Now try glazing over Primal weaponry. You simply can't. The haves and have nots were extremely disproportionate powerwise when primal weaponry was attained.

BoT named were soloed by enchanters because of how over powered Charm was. Negative resist check charm for the win! BoT named, when the place was first entered, would require a casual warrior to pop defensive. Sure a full VT/Ntov geared paladin could tank it, but he's not exactly a casual player. At this point AA differences all begin to rear their ugly head.

As far as PoP offering little to the casual gear wise, what content did they need better gear for? HoH and BoT were doable with a casually geared group. Justice trials (other than the gimp Executioner trial) were also doable. BoT tower named weren't targetted at casuals, though they could still be done. Great Blade of Storms was a great tank weapon if a casual could obtain one.

The real advance for casuals came in the form of vastly faster xp leading to the ability to pile up AA points extremely fast. This is where casuals obtained their power during PoP.

In today's EQ, a casual warrior can gear up to over 10k hitpoints and 2200ac unbuffed. Thats enough to single group the AoW. I first tanked the AoW at 6600hp and 1200ac during luclin with 10 clerics, for a little perspective.

As to the WoW forums, i've read em. Theres a ton of retards. Bnet has always been known for it. An easy game is going to attract some of the lowest common denominator type players. There are also some great people on each class board who get read and have their info passed to the devs.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Claiming casuals don't need stuff to kill and that it's fine to have less than half the hp/mana/stats as a raider because of the lack of said targets which would required it is pretty arrogant... It's more than arrogant, as arrogance requires full knowledge of others' situations, it's bordering on aloof. That you can do so without batting an eye really goes a long way toward explaining why we even disagree here. You're also contradicting yourself by denying the huge gap and its increase in size, then defending it.

And are you really claiming a rare drop with 5 competitors is just as difficult to obtain and as hardcore an item as a rare drop with 60 competitors? Wow...
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
As to the WoW forums, i've read em. Theres a ton of retards. Bnet has always been known for it. An easy game is going to attract some of the lowest common denominator type players.
And you really don't think age is the determining factor in this?
 
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