Doesnt World of Warcraft Suck?

[ndee]

Originally posted by: replicator

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Greatest mmorpg for the casual gamer. I can log in for 30 minutes and feel like I've accomplished something. I don't know how I would feel about this game if I still had 24/7 to game though.

Not once you reach lvl 60.

No realistic way to progress your character other than to raid, which requires a real time commitment of at least 3 hours or so.

Great game from 1 to 60.. then the game turns anything but casual-friendly.

exactly.

 

[Zerohm]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: acole1
to those of you who think its suck just dont know how to play it properly. its not a solo game and it depends heavily on the social aspect of it. you can see this in their marketing when they offer a free month if you get a "friend" to join, and then again recently as they give you a gift cert for $19.99 so you can buy it for a "friend". this is the first real MMORPG to really get into. i can say it can get VERY boring and tedious when you are all on your own and grinding... it forces you to shift at about lvl 30. when i hit 30 i just stopped for about 3 months untill i had another friend get on and now i play all the time again.

to each his own, but i like this game and, aperantly I'm not alone because thousands of people play WoW... i asume they dont think it sucks.

Note the corellation between complete incoherency and love for WoW...

Originally posted by: RBachman
Suffice to say, MMORPGs replace TV for many people, and rightly so as they're far better than the garbage posing as prime time programming. As such, they're a steal at 1/3 the price of basic cable/satellite.

Wait, so you defend MMORPGs yet bash WoW fans? I really didn't see anything that wrong with acole1's post. Regardless, any largely successful game is going to eventually get it's share of immature obnoxious jerks, it's just a shame that those people sometimes stand out more than the mature players. Annoying people are going to find their way into any MMORPG eventually if it's fun to play, even those geared towards hardcore players.

I wish I could find another community as mature as the 1999 Everquest crowd, but just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[TGS]

One of the things I hate in WoW is griefers, pure and simple. You have a player pick either side, in a neutral town attack the opposing faction. Say perhaps a rogue or a hunter, they exploit poor AI coding to use feign death, vanish, or agro tricks to pull guards away from lowbies. If you allow them to do this on a grander scale, it will just drain the fun factor away as you have to constantly deal with griefers.

A lot of horde players frequent westfall, due to the fact there is a pvp flagged npc you have to escort to moonbrook. Why is a level 60 player killing a level 20 npc? Purely to cause frustration that cannot be helped without bring in a level 60 to fight them.

While I don't mind the fact, that sure I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and usually /wave to the enemy when I don't feel like engaging. I know there are people out there that only play to grief the opposing faction using cheap tatics, or just fighting people that are twenty to thirty levels below them. It was one of the few incentives to level up towards 60.

I like the danger element, or fighting like leveled players that want to fight I'll just never see the point of killing those that aren't even a remote challenge just to piss them off.

P.S. Last night on Spinebreaker my level 54 priest was completely destroying a 60 shammy, that was called in when I killed two gankers. After I killed him twice, he did manage to get me when we squared off for a third time. Then after I smack around a 60 shammy (As a 54 priest), he calls in some of the top ranked pvp players for the horde. A loaded out shammy aptly named Spinebreaker and a couple more from the Para Bellum crew came to take a few of the 40s that came down to watch me beat up on this shammy. So luckily a few (non-guilded) alliance 60's had shown up. On a 4-7, we ended up killing them all. At one point they figured they wouldn't win and tried to train on me. I made liberal use of DoTs and fear to kite the horde warrior and a rogue. Though in the end we took too long to kill all the 60's and two had respawned and killed us just as we finished off the last horde opponent.

Now that was fun, but a little sad they called in a guild to help with a -6 priest. :laugh:

FYI Para Bellum on spinebreaker is KoS on my priest. As I know it's easy HKs

 

[HybridSquirrel]

EQ is better. i play as part of ogl for cs:source so of course im gonna say go play that

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
Well, I agree that monthly fees for television is pretty lame as well, for the shows you get. But since when is basic cable $30 to $45 a month?

How much is it for you? It's around $50 here, with DirecTV at $45 iirc.

Originally posted by: Zerohm
Wait, so you defend MMORPGs yet bash WoW fans? I really didn't see anything that wrong with acole1's post. Regardless, any largely successful game is going to eventually get it's share of immature obnoxious jerks, it's just a shame that those people sometimes stand out more than the mature players. Annoying people are going to find their way into any MMORPG eventually if it's fun to play, even those geared towards hardcore players.

I wish I could find another community as mature as the 1999 Everquest crowd, but just don't think it's going to happen.

Average MMORPG player age is probably low-mid 20s. Average WoW player age is about 13. WoW's simplicity, ease and heavy PvP focus, along with Blizzard's reputation, draw them like flies to honey. A more difficult, complex and immersive game, as I'm hoping Vanguard will be, should prove "2 hrd 4" most of them, thus should have a much higher average player age. This was why EQ's average player age was so high, before Sony started making changes to attract the tykes.

Originally posted by: TGS
One of the things I hate in WoW is griefers, pure and simple.

That's why there are normal servers. The sole function of PvP servers is to act as a sort of daycare center.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Zerohm

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: acole1
to those of you who think its suck just dont know how to play it properly. its not a solo game and it depends heavily on the social aspect of it. you can see this in their marketing when they offer a free month if you get a "friend" to join, and then again recently as they give you a gift cert for $19.99 so you can buy it for a "friend". this is the first real MMORPG to really get into. i can say it can get VERY boring and tedious when you are all on your own and grinding... it forces you to shift at about lvl 30. when i hit 30 i just stopped for about 3 months untill i had another friend get on and now i play all the time again.

to each his own, but i like this game and, aperantly I'm not alone because thousands of people play WoW... i asume they dont think it sucks.

Note the corellation between complete incoherency and love for WoW...

Originally posted by: RBachman
Suffice to say, MMORPGs replace TV for many people, and rightly so as they're far better than the garbage posing as prime time programming. As such, they're a steal at 1/3 the price of basic cable/satellite.

Wait, so you defend MMORPGs yet bash WoW fans? I really didn't see anything that wrong with acole1's post. Regardless, any largely successful game is going to eventually get it's share of immature obnoxious jerks, it's just a shame that those people sometimes stand out more than the mature players. Annoying people are going to find their way into any MMORPG eventually if it's fun to play, even those geared towards hardcore players.

I wish I could find another community as mature as the 1999 Everquest crowd, but just don't think it's going to happen.

... and elitist "holier than thou" asshats.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
... and elitist "holier than thou" asshats.

Hey, if you want to hang with a bunch of 12 year olds and "pwn", fine. It's a little creepy in a Michael Jackson sorta way, but I'm not stopping you. I'm just saying it's not my thing.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ndee

Originally posted by: replicator

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Greatest mmorpg for the casual gamer. I can log in for 30 minutes and feel like I've accomplished something. I don't know how I would feel about this game if I still had 24/7 to game though.

Not once you reach lvl 60.

No realistic way to progress your character other than to raid, which requires a real time commitment of at least 3 hours or so.

Great game from 1 to 60.. then the game turns anything but casual-friendly.

exactly.

 

[TGS]

Because other than main city general chat *cough /ignore cough* you don't have a smack talk style interaction with opposing factions. The reason I went with a pvp server, is I wanted the occasional confrontation to test my mettle. Most times it comes down to who can call in more 60's, but by and large you get some good fights. Or you can get rid of people trying to be annoying.

Honestly the PvP honor system needs to be retooled. I was mulling it around, and came up with a couple of ideas. First, players should have three PvP states. Unflagged, Flagged, and Active Flagged. The only main difference is that to be active flagged you have to "Actively" be attacking opposition players. If you are outside of the level range (say 9 above your target) you will start to incur honor penalties for killing "less than honorable" targets. Like the civilian penalty but is a phased approach. So while you fight people your own range or higher, you are become active-flagged. Once you start combat against a non-active flagged opponent below you range, you get a certain amount of time where honor does not get credited. Along with if you kill enough non-actives below your level you lose honor.

I think something like that would promote people from fighting within their own level ranges, but allow players to help others if they are engaged in combat with the opposing faction. It would also help to stem the "ganking" higher level players tend to inflict to those much lower than they are. For me I could care less about killing lowbies, though some people thrive on it. In the grand scheme of things, from a war perspective why would a "General" (IE Level 60) waste time killing a Footman (IE Level 10)? It should be discouraged to waste such resources on trivial targets. The grunts should be training to fight the footman or larger targets. Though it also allows the higher levels to deal with aggresive opposing faction players, without incurring a penalty.

Edit: Also what are you plans for WoW endgame? Raids for gear or PvP? I'm focusing on PvP just because after a while I can get the best gear from doing PvP rather than doing raids. I don't understand how the focus is always on PvE. Sure you get great items but there is a huge time investment into something that isn't guaranteed. While you can accomplish the same thing, but have a better benchmark to weigh in against for getting particular PvP set pieces. I mean, what do you do after you've collect all the epic gear you want? PvP... ebay...roll an alt? Like I've said, I can kill level 60's at 54. I can only imagine how I'll be able to pummel folks once I start to get the PvP sets. Let alone getting GM stuff.

The thing is nobody is paying your subscription but you. Why you are forced into instances and long raids is beyond me... It's about having fun. IE finding something within the game that fufills that function, or moving to a new game.


Edit2: They also need something like how in AV when you "kill" someone, you can loot the body and turn in materials for quest rewards and faction bonuses. As it stands now outside of the BGs, PvP is more of a gank or be ganked thing with little to gain from being on either side. Just like how honor is awarded, you should get more "PvP materials" from higher level and even more from higher ranked people. There needs to be a reward outside of the BGs. As it is, outside the BGs PvP isn't constant so the rewards don't seem they would be outrageous.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
... and elitist "holier than thou" asshats.

Hey, if you want to hang with a bunch of 12 year olds and "pwn", fine. It's a little creepy in a Michael Jackson sorta way, but I'm not stopping you. I'm just saying it's not my thing.

I never said you are an elitist holier than thou asshat... guilty concience?

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
... and elitist "holier than thou" asshats.

Hey, if you want to hang with a bunch of 12 year olds and "pwn", fine. It's a little creepy in a Michael Jackson sorta way, but I'm not stopping you. I'm just saying it's not my thing.

I never said you are an elitist holier than thou asshat... guilty concience?

I've been called it before

 

[Stangs55]

Originally posted by: Xyclone
It takes over lives, I hate it. I am SO glad that I finally got rid of it. :thumbsup:

QFT!

I forced myself to cancel my account.

My wife loves me again

 

[gi0rgi0]

Played for a month, thought it was cool for the first few days then got bored. Forgot to cancel for the next couple months. ******!!!!!!!

 

[Paludis]

I'm having fun with WoW atm, I just hit the end-game and started MC and stuff, it seems fun so far, but I can see how it could get tedious after a while.. I also don't like the fact that I have to be in this goddamn raid for 4 hours and can barely get up to do a piss or something.. The honor system is F***ed so hard though, to get the top rank is pretty much impossible for a single person, you have to get your char played by multiple people 24/7 (at least on Blackrock anyway, because its such a competetive server) Other people have said so, but it's really not very casual at all when you get to the end-game, which can be a rude shock considering lvling is so casual friendly.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: Stangs55

Originally posted by: Xyclone
It takes over lives, I hate it. I am SO glad that I finally got rid of it. :thumbsup:

QFT!

I forced myself to cancel my account.

My wife loves me again

Congrats, dude! I finally got my social life back again! Anyways, I've been WOW sober for 8 months, and will never go back to ANY MMO every again.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: RBachman
How much is it for you? It's around $50 here, with DirecTV at $45 iirc.

Something like $9 a month, although you only get a dozen or so channels.

 

[SmackAHobo]

Nope, it stinks. I'd rather go and play some other online games for free. People make out that this game is so good, but i played it for about an hour and then just stopped. It was so BORING!!!

 

[SmackAHobo]

O and that video sucked some major as*

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Xyclone
It takes over lives, I hate it. I am SO glad that I finally got rid of it. :thumbsup:

Not the developer's fault you have no self control.

QFT

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Average MMORPG player age is probably low-mid 20s. Average WoW player age is about 13. WoW's simplicity, ease and heavy PvP focus, along with Blizzard's reputation, draw them like flies to honey. A more difficult, complex and immersive game, as I'm hoping Vanguard will be, should prove "2 hrd 4" most of them, thus should have a much higher average player age. This was why EQ's average player age was so high, before Sony started making changes to attract the tykes.

I am afraid that you will find you are oh so very wrong on that one. Much as in the people that think huge death penalites or permadeath will deter griefers instead of giving them a hardon.

EQ's player age was high - after 5 years - because the 13-15 year olds that started playing when it was released grew up and it was too 'old and boring' to attract new ones. Or did you think the 18-20 year olds sprung up out of thin air ? 8)

My personal wager to you - after the first 6 months, a substantial portion of vanguard's highest level characters will be owned by players who are under 18.

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: RBachman
Average MMORPG player age is probably low-mid 20s. Average WoW player age is about 13. WoW's simplicity, ease and heavy PvP focus, along with Blizzard's reputation, draw them like flies to honey. A more difficult, complex and immersive game, as I'm hoping Vanguard will be, should prove "2 hrd 4" most of them, thus should have a much higher average player age. This was why EQ's average player age was so high, before Sony started making changes to attract the tykes.

I am afraid that you will find you are oh so very wrong on that one. Much as in the people that think huge death penalites or permadeath will deter griefers instead of giving them a hardon.

EQ's player age was high - after 5 years - because the 13-15 year olds that started playing when it was released grew up and it was too 'old and boring' to attract new ones. Or did you think the 18-20 year olds sprung up out of thin air ? 8)

My personal wager to you - after the first 6 months, a substantial portion of vanguard's highest level characters will be owned by players who are under 18.

QFT?

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: RBachman
Average MMORPG player age is probably low-mid 20s. Average WoW player age is about 13. WoW's simplicity, ease and heavy PvP focus, along with Blizzard's reputation, draw them like flies to honey. A more difficult, complex and immersive game, as I'm hoping Vanguard will be, should prove "2 hrd 4" most of them, thus should have a much higher average player age. This was why EQ's average player age was so high, before Sony started making changes to attract the tykes.

I am afraid that you will find you are oh so very wrong on that one. Much as in the people that think huge death penalites or permadeath will deter griefers instead of giving them a hardon.

EQ's player age was high - after 5 years - because the 13-15 year olds that started playing when it was released grew up and it was too 'old and boring' to attract new ones. Or did you think the 18-20 year olds sprung up out of thin air ? 8)

My personal wager to you - after the first 6 months, a substantial portion of vanguard's highest level characters will be owned by players who are under 18.

The average player age was well above 18-20, and dropped as the game aged, rather than going up. I couldn't say how it was after 5 years - I had quit out of disgust by then. After 4.5 though, Sony had pretty much thoroughly raped Norrath. Anything which was even remotely "2 hrd" (tough stuff, like running 2 minutes to get somewhere) had been nerfed or taken out of the game. "d00dsp34k" was becoming the norm, there were more ooc arguments with more "ur mom" insults in them, etc. I get the feeling you didn't actually play the game. Am I right?

Your proposed wager is a bet I won't take for one reason - Microsoft. I have faith in Brad & crew's ability, but M$ will badly want this game to succeed. I'm not sure what the latest word is on it being an Xbox 360 title, but I think it's a strong possibility. That alone would really reel in the younger crowd. I also have no idea how short or long a leash they have Brad on. For all I know they could be nixing some great ideas because the target teens would think it was too boring / difficult.

Regardless, it doesn't have to be EQ revisited (much as I'd love that ). It need only be more entertaining for me than WoW.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: TGS
One of the things I hate in WoW is griefers, pure and simple.

That's why there are normal servers. The sole function of PvP servers is to act as a sort of daycare center.

Now that's just a load of crap.
I play on a PvP server because I wanna...PvP, fascinating concept no?

I generally don't kill people below my level, I don't kill people who are just out trying to do xyz quest in peace, etc etc.
Still, I do enjoy the fact that I can jump people any time I want to, and that they can do the same to me.

Saying PvP servers are for kiddies(as is certinaly implied by your in itself rather immature post) is like saying PvE servers are only for carebears.

 

[Zerohm]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Average MMORPG player age is probably low-mid 20s. Average WoW player age is about 13. WoW's simplicity, ease and heavy PvP focus, along with Blizzard's reputation, draw them like flies to honey. A more difficult, complex and immersive game, as I'm hoping Vanguard will be, should prove "2 hrd 4" most of them, thus should have a much higher average player age. This was why EQ's average player age was so high, before Sony started making changes to attract the tykes.

Your statements are completely unfounded. The average L33t Hax0rz Camper might be 13 yes. However, most of the people I play with, including myself, are in their low-mid twenties, don't grief, and don't use teh uber l33t spe4k, except in jest. Was I camped a few times on my way to 60? Yes, and it sucked, but I still enjoyed leveling and now I am able to avoid those people altogether, or kill them.

I don't understand why you think PvP is for children though. To some people videogames as a whole are for children, are those people correct in their logic? No.

As for difficulty, the end-game raids (Molten Core, Black Wing Lair, etc) a.) are very difficult and complex. The 20 and 40 person parties doing these raids are comprised mostly of mature young adults that just happen to take the game pretty seriously.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
The complications and cons may outweigh the benefits, however. Would be an interesting concept at least, IMO.

Could implement it similar to UO, you can pass people but it takes massive ammounts of stamina so you can't just pass through 10 people in a row.